Another Yeson thread - I'm booked for Feb 26

[Jennygirl]

Thanks for your update Megan

I agree with Anja here, I think maybe you are still only using the bottom sector of your range. How are your vocal function exercises going a.k.a what is your range doing lip trill sirens and such?

I still had a very limited voice in the upper range for a while, but the more I think about it the more I realize a lot of it was mental at a certain point. You have to focus on relaxing as you do the exercises, because if you strain at all you are taking a step backward in terms of learning how to access the new digs.. This isn't a typical kind of voice feminization learning but rather a re-learning of how to use what your vocal cords can now do. Really the key is relaxation, and it does take practice. That's what those vocal function things seem to be good for.

Anyway I'm curious to know what your range is currently. I notice if I stop doing my vocal function exercises my range does suffer on the very top end until I start doing them again. It almost feels like it takes an entirely different set of muscles to get up there and you really have to train yourself to use them in a relaxed state or else the voice becomes tired more easily. I'm still learning a lot too, but it is becoming easier.

[megan2929]

OK, a recording using the same camera/mic as my other ones for comparison:

[MeganChristine]

Wow, sounding really good, Megan Can clearly hear the difference

[MissRuby]

Wow, Megan
Listening back  your pre-op video and hearing your voice now sounds Amazing.

[margaux29]

Megan thank you for sharing your experience.
Your voice is sublime and natural. I think your voice will become even refined in the next month.
I like the change because your voice has not lost its identity, it is clearer with less grave.

[Jennygirl]

Great video Megan!

Well even if you are using the low end, your voice sounds absolutely 100% cisfemale to me. And just keep going with the exercises, maybe Dr. Kim can suggest a few to help you out with accessing the upper range in speech. I think I had the same problem- I still kind of do but it is continuing to get better.

I dunno if you are the same but I have good voice days and bad voice days, usually depending on what I did the night before. I have found that a humidifier on nights of lengthy loud talking seems to completely prevent the problem... like.. 100%. So, you might try sleeping with a humidifier especially if you live in a dry climate like I do.

Anyway thanks for the update, you actually reminded me I need to get off my butt and do an update video as well. It's been since December that I've posted anything, and almost a year since I did an interview video.

[anjaq]

I think you can be more than just "OK" with that result for now. I personally do not hear anything but a female voice and it was kind of funny when you said that you are trying to go lower with the voice and it was basically the same - So I would say it is a success for sure. But I think you need to learn how to use it better. As I said, I think the difference between you doing something and you doing nothing was minute, so whatever you are doing there, I guess you can drop it and let it flow and concentrate on other things. You obviously do not really have to keep up the pitch or control resonance as much as you did before, so maybe it makes sense to not concentrate on these things anymore but rather work on some psychological barriers. It is my own issue as well - I just tend to stick to a certain vocal range when speaking even when I can do glissandos up to A5. What my voice therapist now is doing is to try and let me go up in speech by design, to loosen that barriers. She lets me ask simple questions and exxagerrate the raise in pitch at the end. Just for fun, for now - We also did a dialogue from a funny book. I was reading the farmers wife who was nagging at times and she did the farmer. It was also in bavarian. So I had to basically play a role and not be my usual self and for that reason I really was using different pitches to do that funny bavarian farmers wife. I am not sure how this will translate into real life, but it shows me at least that there is a mental barrier mostly to using these pitches.
This is about using pitch range that is already there of course. It will not solve that issue about going to deep in some cases, so I guess it is both true - voice therapy alone can change a lot, but surgery can stop those low tones to enter the speech again. I noticed that in your video - whenever you otherwise probably would have dropped in pitch a lot, your voice just gives up and nothing comes out. So that frequencies are gone now, what you probably have to do is to learn to speak in a way that will not run into these holes anymore. And to learn that will be easier if you get reminded of them everytime - But maybe you should also try to play roles and theatre for yourself. To get used to that voice and different pitches.

[Roni]

Megan, the fact that your lowest chest voice post-op has ended up sounding like your pre-op trained voice only shows that the surgery is a success in itself. Now there is literally zero chance that you will accidentally revert to your male register.

Also I have a question for people. Is the general consensus here so far that people who have high pitched pre-op voices typically don't see much of an increase in pitch post-op, but rather simply experience a refined female voice while losing the low ends/male register?

I posted a voice clip here a few weeks ago to many of you stating I sounded cis.  But it takes me a while to warm up to that voice and even when I do reach my female pitch, it takes a lot of work and concentration to maintain the register. Here is a link to that clip: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QbbKdhnvuO

My hope with VFS at yeson is to have my register stay at that pitch without chances of falling back to a male-sounding register. A higher pitched voice would be nice seeing as I am asian and we typically have higher sounding voices than other races, but I can make peace with my current trained voice being my post-op chest voice. Is this possible?

[anjaq]

One more thought. I feel that you are using the pitch that you have gotten used to in a long time by doing your trained voice. It is a pattern that is in your mind - you expect your voice to sound like your usual voice that you used all the time. I think one key could be to really let go and relax and not expect a certain voice, but just see what comes out. you basically have to un-learn to use that pitch that you have gotten used to. Just a thought, amaybe I am wrong.

[Gigi_J]

Hi Megan,

I had my op yesterday and sooooo looking forward to talking and finding that I can't go any lower than you can go in this vid. woo!

In any case, I agree with Jenny and her comment above that I hear nothing but 100% cisfemale in your vid - even using your lowest voice with no resonance control, as you said - so give yourself a pat on the back!

I will say, as a basic place for a lower-end female voice, I think it's great...you have a really nice timber for my taste and I think it sounds veeeery sexy (haha), I'm into guys though so you're safe I assure you, just thought I'd give you that compliment ;p It's interesting reading a few other earlier comments by ex-Yeson girls who think you just haven't allowed yourself to fully 'click into' your upper registers yet. Spose that makes total sense. Remember one comment about advice from Jessie saying that you should try and push up your voice into a head voice quite early on and many were surprised at how much higher their voices came out and seemed to find a higher place they had no idea about. Assume you've tried that already? In any case, good luck for a continued improvement over the coming months...I'm confident you'll be ecstatic eventually when you are able to access these higher frequencies, however you discover them - but as a basis, I'd be so delighted with the frequency and general tone and quality of the voice you have right now...honestly! And I know you feel it sounds just like your pre-op trained voice...well it does, it's very similar, but sooo much softer and lacks that occasional deeper undertone that you had before...total improvement to my ears, I promise you! Practice, practice practice....easier said than done I know...I'll be there myself soon, arghhhh!

Gigi

[Shantel]

Beautiful all female voice Megan, congratulations!

[megan2929]

Megan, the fact that your lowest chest voice post-op has ended up sounding like your pre-op trained voice only shows that the surgery is a success in itself. Now there is literally zero chance that you will accidentally revert to your male register.

Also I have a question for people. Is the general consensus here so far that people who have high pitched pre-op voices typically don't see much of an increase in pitch post-op, but rather simply experience a refined female voice while losing the low ends/male register?

I posted a voice clip here a few weeks ago to many of you stating I sounded cis.  But it takes me a while to warm up to that voice and even when I do reach my female pitch, it takes a lot of work and concentration to maintain the register. Here is a link to that clip: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QbbKdhnvuO

My hope with VFS at yeson is to have my register stay at that pitch without chances of falling back to a male-sounding register. A higher pitched voice would be nice seeing as I am asian and we typically have higher sounding voices than other races, but I can make peace with my current trained voice being my post-op chest voice. Is this possible?

Roni, I think your pre-op voice is amazing! From my experience so far, I'd say that the surgery seems to just cut out that lower register but doesn't do a whole lot for raising your upper end pitch, but maybe I'm just an exception. I can definitely hear more of a pitch increase in some of the other girl's videos so maybe it's just different for everyone. But worst case would be that your new chest voice would probably sound similar to your current trained voice. I feel like saying your money might be better spent elsewhere, but I'm just a hypocrite since I was also told my pre-op voice was fine and I still did the surgery. In the end, do what you need to do to feel happy and comfortable. Cute photo too btw!

[anjaq]

doesn't do a whole lot for raising your upper end pitch

But worst case would be that your new chest voice would probably sound similar to your current trained voice.

Yes to both , but I would say that this is not really a "worst case", is it? It actualyl would be pretty cool and I think it is basically what many of the girls here wanted to get - to have a chest voice (natural voice, without the need for control or attention or guarding) that is like the trained voice. The way I see it and the way I actually have promoted the surgery already to some people was to say that it is a voice-assisting surgery. It seems to just make it a lot easier to use a voice that is good but that does not feel like it is a trained voice anymore but still sounds like it. Thats in my opinion a really great outcome. If you never had a good trained voice before, I guess the change would be more dramatic.
I think the upper range extension is something that is small, depends highly on voice training - probably voice training alone can do more pitch increase at the upper end for an untrained voice than the surgery - I noticed with voice training that my upper limit went up from 680Hz to 900 Hz and my voice trainer said that I was even able to get to the "high C" one of the times. But what would I want to use that register for except for singing operas - I think it plays little role in daily life, but if those high pitches are easier to use afte this surgery, that would already be great. Do you feel it is like that?

[Gigi_J]

Hi again Megan,

As other girls have said though, it does seem you're just stuck down at the lower end of your range. Of course, it's still what I consider a resounding success that you can't sound anything other than female now. But I can understand your wish to see a more dramatic improvement in terms of being able to use a higher pitch with no effort in every day conversation.

So...you've probably seen the posts by others yourself underlining the importance of this point but just in case...are you actually consciously trying to use your 'head voice' when speaking? By all accounts, you should be. And in time you'll train yourself to use the higher ranges with little or no effort. Since I started saying a few words, the speaking in a light head voice is a conscious thing I've been making myself do most times I say a few words. Of course, the sensation is best described as simply feeling like it gets to higher pitches...(around the 200-220hz range in my case at the moment)...with practically zero effort...and no strain and tightening feeling like we felt pre-op. So basically, what I'm saying is, if I didn't consciously make en effort to use my head voice, it's very likely my test recordings would come out lower, because until we learn how to use our new equipment, we'll be tempted to drop down to a more familiar pitch. The small amount of testing I've done with gentle words at different pitches on different days proves that my voice naturally feels most comfortable above around the 180hz or above range now but I can still say words at a lower 150 or 160hz very comfortably...in fact, I havent tried talking down there but when I last did a gentle test to slowly sweep down on a single syllable super gently (as I explained in my thread) I was still able to get right down to around 100-110hz but still..that's not where it wants to be and I can feel that...I feel the same thing when I've uttered a few words without consciously using a head voice..feels comfortableish at 150 - 160hz..but not as comfortable as 180hz and above. So yes, that comfortable feeling....I'm sure you will have experimented with it? The feeling that it just 'wants' to be higher...even tho it's not particularly uncomfortable to speak a little lower...such a surreal feeling and I've been loving it....and I've allowed it to get to the super comfortable 200hz ish levels by just relaxing my throat completely and letting it go up into a head voice, as I said.

Just my thoughts anyway...and checking to see you're doing this - or whether you have, and it just feels uncomfortable somehow when you speak at a higher range at the moment?

Good luck with continued recovery anyway and don't sweat it...you're obviously aware we're in this for the long-haul and I've no doubt your voice, like all of ours, will continue (fingers crossed!) to just get better and better as the months go by.

Gigi

[anjaq]

hi gigi
My voice therapist tells me to sometimes let it slip into ahead voice but by no means I should use that as a regular voice. I may get this wong but I think always speaking in the head voice is not really what one wants to do, right? Is this just a post-op training thing?

What puzzles me a bit is that you say you still have to consciously raise your voice to get to the 200 Hz voice. Is it at least easier to get there? One of the benefits of VFs supposedly is to take away some of the pressure to consciously do anything with the voice.

Another thing that I find remarkable is that description of the comfortable zone. I oddly found that without a voice surgery as of now, I have a somewhat comfortable zone now that is higher than what I usually speak at. So if I talk too low pitched, it actually hurts my throat in one way, if I go up, that sort of strain goes away but I get some other strain which is less bad and I can minimize it by using a lot of airflow. In some ways it seems to be better for my throat to speak at a 180-200 Hz range than below, but the voice still wants to drop below if I relax somehow. It is weird - as if my voice wants to be in one range but also in another and both do not work totally fine. Mabye it is because I have changed my voice so musch and try to get a female resonance which does not really do well with low pitch, but the higher pitch at which it works is also costing some effort for some other muscles, presumably the ones raising the pitch. I find my voice so confusing - I am sure I sound differently every hour

Still, I wonder how much of getting to a feminine voice post op is about training and doing conscious efforts and getting used to do something by just doing it over and over again?

[Gigi_J]

Hi Anjaq,

From my understanding from some of the other Yeson graduates is that as the months go by, the chest voice does 'open up' and the break between chest and head voice does blur somewhat so I don't think Yeson girls long-term have to 'concentrate' on speaking in a head voice to speak in higher frequencies...once we get used to our new shortened folds and they have time to fully retension and our brains have time to fully adapt - bear in mind I'm not the best to answer this with any certainly from my own experience because I'm still so early in my recovery. But I have read many times (and equally importantly was told directly by Dr. Kim himself on my pre-op consultation) that we're all told that we can't expect the surgery alone to do everything for us...of course there's resonance and other areas to perfect but talking purely pitch-wise, we still have to 'train' our brains to use the higher pitches available to us and that if we don't, we'd likely continue to use our more familiar lower ranges - which of course won't be as low as our pre-op lower ranges but still would be considerably lower than our new 'fundamental frequency'.

Personally speaking, the small amount I've been allowed to talk during this first month (my general conversation date is 20th July), I tried my best to describe it above..and that is that...when I say my few daily words and don't put any effort into raising the pitch a little, it can come out as low as 160 or 170 or 180hz (all depending on the day..and of course this is still way above my preop super relaxed pitch of 130hz approx) but I can 'feel' this is lower than the 'sweet spot' if that makes sense..the point where my vocal folds feel totally relaxed. And I can only get that fully 'relaxed' sweet spot feeling when I say my words in a lighter head voice. So even though I'm consciously maintaining a lighter head or mixed voice, it feels nothing like it did pre-op, there's no squeezing or tightening or tension to get up there. It comes out effortlessly. This most comfortable sweet spot of points for me when I say words seems to always be around the 200 hz point when measures with Praat - which is pretty much where my fundamental frequency should end up according to Dr. Kim so I suppose that makes sense about that feeling of it being my new sweet spot. Again, I'm still early in recovery so it's very hard for me to fully describe it but I'd love to hear from anyone else about the kinds of feelings I've been describing - to know this is how others describe it too? Of course when my general conversation day arrives it'll be so much easier to start to experiment fully and probably describe things a lot better when i've had a chance to really get a feel for it all.

P.s. forgot to reply to your other point - hmm that's interesting what you say about you're voice feeling most comfortable in some ways in the 180-200 hz range - despite the fact that if you fully 'relax' it will want to go lower. Perhaps you're right and that it's to do with the years of speaking in your female voice and the muscles that come in to action when you get to lower ranges (if you fully 'relax') are out of practice. That might make sense? Interesting in any case!!

hi gigi
My voice therapist tells me to sometimes let it slip into ahead voice but by no means I should use that as a regular voice. I may get this wong but I think always speaking in the head voice is not really what one wants to do, right? Is this just a post-op training thing?

What puzzles me a bit is that you say you still have to consciously raise your voice to get to the 200 Hz voice. Is it at least easier to get there? One of the benefits of VFs supposedly is to take away some of the pressure to consciously do anything with the voice.

Another thing that I find remarkable is that description of the comfortable zone. I oddly found that without a voice surgery as of now, I have a somewhat comfortable zone now that is higher than what I usually speak at. So if I talk too low pitched, it actually hurts my throat in one way, if I go up, that sort of strain goes away but I get some other strain which is less bad and I can minimize it by using a lot of airflow. In some ways it seems to be better for my throat to speak at a 180-200 Hz range than below, but the voice still wants to drop below if I relax somehow. It is weird - as if my voice wants to be in one range but also in another and both do not work totally fine. Mabye it is because I have changed my voice so musch and try to get a female resonance which does not really do well with low pitch, but the higher pitch at which it works is also costing some effort for some other muscles, presumably the ones raising the pitch. I find my voice so confusing - I am sure I sound differently every hour

Still, I wonder how much of getting to a feminine voice post op is about training and doing conscious efforts and getting used to do something by just doing it over and over again?

[anjaq]

Well yes, I think it somehow makes sense. Probably yes, my voice is a bit used to a higher pitch, but I almost never talk at 180-200 Hz even though this seems to be for some reason a point where my voice seems to work best in some aspects - in my opinion it sounds clearer, better resonance, more controllable pitchwise and on the ENT videos it had less assymetry as well. I have no idea why that is - maybe some mixup with brain, vocal chords, hormones and more - But to hear that it is now way less effort or strain to use the voice in that spot gives me some positive points for that surgery, as this would for me translate into being able to use that "sweet spot" voice with less effort and then actually use it maybe instead of lowering it because it strains - exchanging one strain for another strain. I get the feeling my voice is a bit weird after all these years - 16 it is by now - and I guess it will be a point on my question list to ask Dr Kim how having such a history would affect what has to be done post op.

About the pitch that is available now and that it has to be learned to use it - I am not sure , but I think in theory all the pitches are available to me now - except the ones around the break are harder to use. But I guess when singing I can reach and use all of them. But when speaking I seem to strain more when using higher pitches. I am working in therapy on translating the singing to the speech and use higher pitches without much straining. The coach claims that if I can get that, all I need to do is to train my brain to use these pitches and not the low ones and then I am good without surgery. I am suspicious about this being the same though.

[alexiakk]

Well the purpose of this surgery is to raise your pre-op voice about 74 Hz so that you can reach your pre-op trained voice in a natural way... so I think your result is pretty successful for 3.5 month post-op! I mean, everyone starts with a different pre-op pitch - as Sarah she starts with like 170 so you definitely can't expect a post-op frequency like hers... and Jenny got a different procedure as we got - so it's different again.

I'm close to my 2-months-mark and I'm very panic now cuz mine really didn't elevate a lot... and the lowest notes, they're really hard to get to now but I still can reach some of them. At least the coughing sound at this point disappoints me a lot cuz it's really not that feminine. I don't know, Dr. Kim predicts that in my case I can't get a dramatic change until after 2 months probably because of tremor or physical conditions, but he predicts my post-op to be around 240-250 Hz. I mean I don't really know what my "trained-voice" will be as I never had feminization therapy, so what I can tell is that the pitch is not that different from my "pre-op chest voice" besides it sounds breathier... I guess I should be more disappointed than you Megan, at least yours is only like not that different from your pre-op "trained" voice