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expression on work?

Started by Natkat, January 28, 2014, 05:52:55 PM

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Natkat



Watching this video and currently having this topic going on where I live I wonder about peoples experience with there gender expression and there workplace, specially if your expression is mixed or if you don't pass.

I know a couple of transgender who had problems being accepted due to there way of dressing, and studying waitorclass I also had problem myself because as a waitor theres usunally strick rules on how you are suposed to dress and not dress.

I won't say this dresscodes are the reason why I don't have a job, But I will say it sure make it more difficult and annoying that you should think about what type of haircut you get before you look for a job.

what is you experience with these?
do you join the jobinterviuw, with make up, boytie, nailpolish, or whatever gender expression who could make a frown and prejugde on who you are,
or do you dress neutral to higher your chance on getting the job?



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Ambiguous

Maddie is awesome!  :D And I want to steal the livelavalive sweater :P

Ok, my opinion on the video is that that situation horrible, and unacceptable, she was dressed just fine, but the truth is (at least to me) the whole outfit doesn't look very professional, tho the clothes by themselves are sort of formal. I would say when in doubt overdress, no need to stick to what's "expected", but if she was wearing a suit or maybe different shoes they couldn't have said anything at all without being openly a**holes...

I have different experiences (I'm studying to be a vet, but I've done a few internships which is a little like working):
I study in a really small town where people seem to be stuck in time, even the students that came from bigger towns seem to be overtaken by the close-mindedness. I wear a mixture of "feminine" men's clothing and "masculine" women's clothes and I pretty much only wear black and grey. And I dress like that unless I'm using the surgical pajamas (or whatever it is they call the uniform) which is generally equal for everyone regardless of gender.
I've had teachers treat me differently sometimes and costumers who asked me "are you a girl or a boy?" and things along those lines.

When working with other students and vets I have found a bit of a difference depending on what area they are dedicated to.
Tho I want to work with wild and exotic animals in the future I like to experiment a bit of all the areas, but I find myself considering whether or not to apply to large (cattle etc) and small(dogs and cats) animals because of people's reactions to me. People working with large animals tend to be the most conservative and religious for some reason. And when working with pets there is a LOT of contact with pet owners that are sometimes very rude.

Luckily people from the area I want seem to be much more open minded and most of them have alternative lifestyles and ways of dressing which I think is what makes them be like that.

I try to go to the interview in a way that I'm not immediately perceived as female and depending on the area it is I'll wear more or less black so that I know from then on what kind of people I'll be working with.

This may change when I'm actually working and making my own money, then I may change my approach, I don't know, but I don't really want to tho, mostly because I want to work in a place where are accepting, but that's not always an option.
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Stella Stanhope

Wow, I'm surprised more people haven't commented on this thread! Androgyny or cross-presentation often means no job I agree, but it doesn't have too necessarily....

I agree that hairstyles need to match the environment one is working in, therefore if its catering - hair needs to be neatly arranged away from the neck, face and the food you are serving. Same if you were working close to moving machinery (as your hair could get caught). However, people should have more freedom over exactly HOW they wish to style and control their hair. And not simply have to conform to gender stereotypes.

Natkat - As for job interview - I do feel its best to dress in the gender in which you pass. This may be a heartbreaking affair for some, however, ultimately we are bound by society and current ways-of-thinking. If you really want the job, try whatever you can to get it. Then, when you have worked there for a while, are secure, are working well, know your colleagues well, and have formed friendships or great working-relationships with bosses and HR (very crucial!), then you may be able to start presenting as how you wish. If you felt uncomfortable around a potential employee, would you hire them? Probably not. And that's what you have to think about first and foremost. Not all transphobia, is actually transphobia I should imagine. Its just average guys and girls simply wanting not to make faux pas or have their job made harder.

As for clothing (and hairstyles included) if you are going to present more towards your target gender, as opposed to your biological sex - then its best to provide subtle clues as to how you wish to be addressed and customers and those you work with. Alot of hostility towards transpeople at work is perhaps simply because the other people you work with may not know what YOU wish to be seen as, and therefore feel embarrassed that they'll gender you wrongly and look stupid as a result. Basically, as a cross-presenting person, you increase the risk of others' making faux pas. And their worry that they'll misgender you can make people angry towards you as they'll look stupid or bigoted. Also, if YOU are nervous about your presentation, others will be too, and will pick up on that - with obvious negative results.

So as an MTF, if you're going to dress feminine or as a female, perhaps try to be as warm, talkative and approachable as possible. AND make it clear how you wish to be seen and addressed, do not assume that the other people will automatically know, as they probably won't. Guide the people, especially those who are just unsure, potentially bigoted or just benignly ignorant. Make them feel at ease, and there's more incentive for them to make you feel at ease. The more subtle clues and almost-subconscious assurance you give them, the less likely they'll feel put on-the-spot, and the less opportunity you give them for misgendering you (purposely or otherwise). Also, I think its wise to tailor your presentation to the situation and environment you are in. You'll have more latitude and freedom with in certain environments than you would get within other environments, and that's just the way it is and will probably be till the end of time and the day-after.

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As an example (though I'm not a binary person by nature) - I dress with feminine clothes to work, and often a subtle feminine hairstyle (hair in a neat up-do for instance). Technically, I'm blatantly crossdressing - its obvious my clothes are for females due to their cut, buttons on opposing sides, colours, texture, styles etc. My silhouette is very feminine, however up-close I am obviously male as I don't wear make-up (though I close-shave and neaten my eyebrows, etc). There is usually some slight pause, sign of confusion (or potential "I bet he's gay!" bemusement) when customers or colleagues see me for the first time (or when I have a new outfit). So I make sure not to get into any mutually embarrassing situations by immediately speaking in my male voice, using masculine mannerisms and such, to put them at ease. Then, when we've gotten to know each other, and they don't feel confused or threatened by my unusual presence - I'll be able to have more freedom in how I act. Its a bit like social gearing :p Don't go into work in female clothes in top gear as people will freak-out. Don't go into reverse, but do go slow.

Therefore in most cases, I'll get some disapproving and confused looks at first, but then as they get to know me, and I act in a way that they find familiar  - they simply relax and don't notice me after a time.

If I took HRT and began to look female, I'd act male around around everyone who I knew before the effects started. And (if I passed as female) I'd be more openly female around those who I had just met who automatically assumed I'd be female, however if asked, I'd subtly convey that I wasn't cis female. Once again, I'd tailor my response to every individual situation, in the same way most people slightly alter their mannerisms when they are in the company of a boss, friends or family. Its not a fool-proof or 100% effective system of course, but its definitely more advantageous than having a blanket approach to presentation in social situations.

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Presentation at work is something which always was an issue for me! I worked in catering for many years, various restaurants and hotels, and found it highly problematic due to my hair and build. The uniforms were always too big and boxy (which meant i genuinely looked terrible shabby and baggy), and of course long hair (even when tied, was always viewed with suspicion).  I used to hate wearing ponytails as I've never liked the idea of being a guy with a ponytail, as it just looks too grungy and male. But then it clicked, and I thought "so why don't I just tie-it back in a feminine style, duh! Screw them!", and so I did. It was both hygenic and pretty. But of course, male waiters aren't meant to have pretty and neat hairstyles, so the bosses didn't like that either. Haha. I carried on doing it anyway as I worked very well, and they knew it.
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
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