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Talking yourself out of it??

Started by confusedbilliam, January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM

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confusedbilliam

Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??
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BunnyBee

Incongruence between your self and the person you present to the world takes a toll.  A cumulative toll.  The most dangerous thing you can do is talk yourself out of finding yourself and bringing your whole being in line with it.  It is such an easy trap though, because it's easier to not turn your life upside down, until it isn't anymore.

When you get to the state where wrecking everything in your life is easier than not doing that, you are in serious trouble.   Many of us did wait that long, and we will tell you we were lucky to survive it.  It is a path that leads only to regret.
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Sephirah

It happens to very, very many people, hon. You're not alone feeling like that.

The conscious mind is masterful at trying to explain away concepts and feelings it either hasn't fully come to terms with, doesn't understand, or perceives as a possible threat to an otherwise secure way of life. Whether those explanations have any accuracy to them is for the individual to ascertain, but that doesn't stop the mind from trying to do it. It likes things rationalised, compartmentalised, analysed. Denial takes on many forms, and some days can exert itself stronger than others.

*hugs*

As for taking a long time to figure yourself out. I wouldn't worry about that, hon. Many times life gets in the way of introspection. Distraction, deflection, ambition... you name it. Aside from who we are, we can also be what we want, too. It takes as long as it takes. And heck, I still don't think I've figured myself out in 34 years, lol. Not fully, at least. I reckon by the time that happens, there'll be nothing left for me to do. ;D
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Sarah Rose

I've been in your position... I'm pre HRT and have only recently come out to my friends/family....

The only thing making me try and push this away is the crap my Mother keeps telling me, she's trying to convince me that I'm destroying my life and pointing out anything and everything she can to make me stop what I'm planning to do (HRT).

I know one thing for sure, every time I tried to push this away it came back harder, and stronger... The last time it came back (about two weeks ago) I was suicidal over it. I quickly lost that depression after coming out. It's hard that's for certain but only you'll know.

I'm going to keep pushing forward, even with the occasional doubt because I know that my only doubts are coming from my Mothers denial.
~People fear what they don't understand.
~Life Won't Wait: http:// youtube.com/watch?v=jAh_SCjCh8A


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BunnyBee

Quote from: Sephirah on January 20, 2014, 04:26:35 PM
It happens to very, very many people, hon. You're not alone feeling like that.

The conscious mind is masterful at trying to explain away concepts and feelings it either hasn't fully come to terms with, doesn't understand, or perceives as a possible threat to an otherwise secure way of life. Whether those explanations have any accuracy to them is for the individual to ascertain, but that doesn't stop the mind from trying to do it. It likes things rationalised, compartmentalised, analysed. Denial takes on many forms, and some days can exert itself stronger than others.

*hugs*

As for taking a long time to figure yourself out. I wouldn't worry about that, hon. Many times life gets in the way of introspection. Distraction, deflection, ambition... you name it. Aside from who we are, we can also be what we want, too. It takes as long as it takes. And heck, I still don't think I've figured myself out in 34 years, lol. Not fully, at least. I reckon by the time that happens, there'll be nothing left for me to do. ;D

So true.

The rational compartmentalization we do is done in by our biases.  When denial is the easiest thing and confronting reality the hardest, there is a strong bias toward denial, so that is where our conscious mind wants to take us.
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JoanneB

Quote from: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??

ONLY 25 years!!!!  I spent a good 50 years at it. Mostly denial but still I knew I was a trans-something or other. After a lot of selk work, going to a support group, plus some therapy for the ton of shame, guilt and other TG baggage I have no doubt I am not just a tad more than a CD but really a TS. Any sort of transitioning to full-time is where I do most of my talking out of. Still haven't seen a Need to go there.

Which begs the question... Just what do you mean by trans? Just TG or TV, or TS or GQ or....? It's a big umbrella made all the more confusing with an abbreviation like "trans"
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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Jamie D

#6
Quote from: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??


We have people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and even 70's who are coming to realize what those disconcerting feelings have meant all these years.

You have to remember, prior to the "Information Age," with the internet and all, the information around today was barely accessible.   I saw a psychiatrist in college for, in retrospect, what I now recognize as gender dysphoria.  The diagnosis I got then (late 1970s) was that I was bisexual but otherwise perfectly normal!  (And we all know that is a crock!!)

And there were plenty of other signs as I found ways to try and cope with it - like body shaving, female role-playing, etc.  And as Jen stated above, I was a master "compartmentalizer."  I had mental and emotional compartments for various part of my life.

So don't feel bad that your reckoning is just now coming.  It's okay.
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RobinGee

I chose my new nickname over this issue.  I had talked myself out of it19 years ago.
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Jessica Merriman

47 years here baby! All of that time in a mental hell, constantly at war with myself instead of just accepting it and moving forward. I went Full Time last week and now have a peace I have never known. No more guilt, repression, depression or constant nagging in my head. My body is now relaxed and feeling normal for the first time in my life. A word of warning, if you have these feelings this strong now they only get overpowering the longer you try to ignore them. Dysphoria never goes away, it just gets stronger and saps more life out of you every day. Do yourself a big favor and face this. Find a good therapist an see what they say about it. You do have to be completely honest with them or therapy doesn't work. It is hard to tell people your darkest secrets, but we have all done it, survived and thrived. :)
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nether

I understand what you are saying and it sucks. Try to picture yourself in an ideal life. Are you happy without transitioning? I'm pre-everything as well and lemme tell you, time is just flying by. There are days where I don't think about being a woman at all. Other days it consumes me entirely. One thing that I've noticed (and it may be different for you) is that this feeling, yearning, has not gone away or faded one bit. It has only gotten stronger. I think as time goes on, less things in life are there to distract you. This eventually leaves you with nothing but yourself if you ever hit a rock bottom. I think that at this point, you either sink or swim and a lot of people just can't take it. It becomes a lot easier to just go out with a bang than to turn your whole life upside down in order to make you happy. So, before you hit that point, you should ask yourself if you will be happy living with what you have now. You owe it to yourself to be happy. Not to the other people around you.
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FilaFord

#10
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Ashley Allison

Quote from: nether on January 23, 2014, 02:16:54 AM
I understand what you are saying and it sucks. Try to picture yourself in an ideal life. Are you happy without transitioning? I'm pre-everything as well and lemme tell you, time is just flying by. There are days where I don't think about being a woman at all. Other days it consumes me entirely. One thing that I've noticed (and it may be different for you) is that this feeling, yearning, has not gone away or faded one bit. It has only gotten stronger. I think as time goes on, less things in life are there to distract you. This eventually leaves you with nothing but yourself if you ever hit a rock bottom. I think that at this point, you either sink or swim and a lot of people just can't take it. It becomes a lot easier to just go out with a bang than to turn your whole life upside down in order to make you happy. So, before you hit that point, you should ask yourself if you will be happy living with what you have now. You owe it to yourself to be happy. Not to the other people around you.

Really love your post Nether :) Every year the dysphoria persists, at least in my experience...  There are days I barely feel it, and others where for the life of me I am revolted with another second of maleness and trembling ready to tell my parents.  The excuses that we have to wrestle with and whether they are true excuses or not.  That is a problem.  Five years ago, it was that I needed to prepare and settle what went wrong with my now ex-girlfriend, so I knew this dysphoria wasn't stemming from another problem.  3 years ago, it was how another relative came out as trans, and I didn't want to be another burden to my family; and, I got a dose of thinking I wasn't as "trans" as they were.  2 years ago, the excuse for not jumping the male ship was that I was applying to graduate school, and I would never got in if I appeared as I am inside.  Today, that excuse is how my overly conservative academic colleagues, family, friends would greatly look down on me, not to mention it would implode a great relationship I have with my girlfriend.

And ConfusedBilliam, I can empathize, as I am around your age and it looks like we have similar experiences.  The questioning... There is a fair percentage of time that I wish I didn't question as much and just transitioned.  But thinking of this only arises more questions that halt any form of progress I have, in either direction; it is great circular logic.   
Fly this girl as high as you can
Into the wild blue
Set me free
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Ms Grace

Hey, I really understand what you're saying billiam :)
Heck, I almost grasped the prize and nearly fully transitioned at age 24... and then talked myself out of it, spending the next 22 years talking myself out of it until I literally broke under the stress of denial. It takes time to sort through your gender identity and presentation, don't feel the need to rush or force yourself to take any particular step until you feel comfortable it is what you want for yourself. That doesn't equate with giving up, it's just playing it safe. At the same time, if you are feeling pain because you aren't able to exist as the gender you feel yourself to be then it's important to investigate the possibilities.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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JordanBlue

Everything really depends on the severity of your dysphoria.  If your dysphoria still allows you to live your life in any kind of 'normal' manner, then none of this will matter to you.  If your dysphoria is bad enough that you can't bear to function another minute as you are, then whether or not to transition won't be a question for you.  You will transition. It's really as simple as that.
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly...
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big kim

I convinced my self I would be this monster,an ugly hairy beast with breasts condemned to live as an outcast.I was going to transition in 1979,I spent the next 10 years trying to blot it out with booze,speed and weed.It didn't work,I would probably be dead if I hadn't transitioned,not from suicide but from accident.Many times I set the stove on fire cooking when wasted or fell asleep in the bath.I once knocked a portable CD player in the bath as well
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helen2010

#15
Quote from: JordanBlue on January 26, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
Let me ask a question here.   WHY would anyone want to 'de'-transition?
I'm looking at this from the perspective of why would anyone transition in the first place if it wasn't absolutely necessary?  I don't get it.
I think that there would be a number of folk who have partially or fully detransitioned who initially saw their initial transition option as singular i.e. presenting entirely and fully as the opposite gender to their birth state.   Following their full transition, with further life experience and insight they may have sensed or better  understood that their identity was better expressed somewhere between the gender binaries..  In these cases as awareness of themselves and of different options arose some detransitioning may have become compelling and attractive to them.   Alternatively some may have found that they moved rashly or prematurely before they had completely understood themselves, their options and the associated risks/benefits.   Again there may be others for whom the reality did not match the expectation perhaps because they were too optimistic, too rushed or they misjudged the collateral damage or impact on their life and well being, arising from a full transition.
What I am trying to say is that people have their own story, their own journey; circumstances and understanding do change.  Just because a full transition appeared to be the only option available to someone at a certain stage of their life does not mean that they should not review or revisit this irrespective of the massive energy, time, cost and emotion that they have already incurred in their full transition.  These are non trivial decisions and rarely made lightly.  I believe that they should be respected and supported as we can never know or fully appreciate the motivation and decisioning of another person without becoming that person.
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insideontheoutside

I find it fascinating that the majority of responders in this thread are female (correct me if I'm wrong about that) and many are making statements like, "Eventually, gender dysphoria will make you reach your breaking point." That's a scary thought. And yes, some statements are being tempered a bit with the "If I waited so long and did it, you can too" type of encouragement but I'm wondering if the scare tactics are painting the most accurate picture? Or perhaps I've got a different perspective because I'm coming it at through my own personal experiences of course, but also from the perspective of a male who's been awkwardly living in society as female for 40 years. I know there's plenty of people who identify as FTM who will say that they couldn't live another day as female (and having been under the influence of estrogen at times in my life myself I can tell you how crazy emotional that hormone will make you and I honestly can't fathom why anyone would want that!) but there's still a spectrum of gender and of gender dysphoria. Some people have severe dysphoria, some people do not. Some people will be way more concerned with how society sees them than their own bodies. Perhaps it seems like a large percentage of trans people fall into the "transition or die" category because they're often more vocal about it (like the, "Don't make the same mistake I did!")? Whereas there's people like me who survived their own personal crisis and wrestling internally with it and have come out the other side more okay with themselves.

And there there's the age differences. When I look at the FTM forum, there's a lot less older people over there. It seems to be a average age of 20-something and they're either in transition, working towards getting a letter for HRT, or contemplating it. Whereas if I drift over to the MTF forum there seem to be many more people 40+ who are just now contemplating or actually starting to transition. Perhaps it's because it's "easier" (I'm using that word very loosely here) to go from female to male than the other way around? At least from a physical standpoint, fat redistribution and facial/body hair from taking testosterone can make one appear to be male under society's lens (with some exceptions) quicker than it takes to transform a body who has been under the influence of testosterone for years with estrogen. I know that's a broad statement and individual genetics really do come into play (hence the exceptions) but why the seemingly vast age differences? Is it more of a society thing? We're to the point in western society where females can pretty much do anything they want ... have a family or not ... have a career or not ... participate in more traditional "male" roles or not. But males are still expected to, "be men" and even the slightest feminine trait is cause for uproar. Of course this is all just my perspective so I'm an outside observer of it all but I'm curious nonetheless of the personal experience of folks on the other side of the fence, so to speak – having to grow up male, when in reality you're female and how that differs from the other way around.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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thevaliantx

The thread title hits home for me because for about a year now I have been making comments to my wife, jokingly, (though I am not sure they were a joke now) that I could just hang myself, step in front of a semi truck or a train and everything would be better.  Whenever I make the comment it's because of something causing me agony that we can both see, yet the pain I am feeling at that moment runs much deeper than she realizes.   About two months ago I was in a really dark place, how I snapped out of I don't know.  How this relates to detransitioning I am not sure either.   I do know that while I am motivated to not transition (don't want to lose my son) I am becoming more and more angry at the thought that my wife is enjoying "having her husband back" while I am basically trapped you the fear of losing my son and not being able to support myself (she makes a lot more money than I do).  There have been many an occasion where I secretly wished something were to happen to my wife (I am not the kind of person who would harm her) so that I could live my life as I wish.  I can't even order a sex toy because of my ultra conservative, non-sexual, cherry picking Christian of a wife.  I, too, am a Christian but I also know what the Bible says (or does not address) about issues related to TG/TS or sex toys and the use of them.  I feel like the scarecrow pointing the way for Dorothy, except Dorothy's the one wearing the coveralls.
10-13 tried mother's finger nail polish, dresses and her heels
23 phase of body building and then suddenly cross dressing and wearing makeup
26 started calling myself Kristy in my voicemail recording
36 saw therapist, went on HRT and partially identified as Kristy
37 moved and started HRT again, dressing a little more feminitely
41 started HRT again, and wife made agreement if I would give up Kristy
45 started HRT again, this time for good, because wife didn't hold up her end of the agreement.  New agreement with 11 year old son and wife is that Kristy be present only at certain times and not around strangers or family, unless they are ready to be a part of Kristy.
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thevaliantx

I gathered that the OP wasLooking for others to share their experiences with denial as it pertains to allowing one to talk his or her self out of tansitioning.  For about four years I found various coping methods.  Big beard.  Acting manly.  Doing what I felt were manly activities.  While I took enjoyment in some of those things, and still do, I lost far greater enjoyment from denying myself the right to be me.  Perhaps more profoundly was my discovery that there is nothing wrong with being yourself, though, as we all know, you should never assume that someone else is on the same page when they suggest that you do.
10-13 tried mother's finger nail polish, dresses and her heels
23 phase of body building and then suddenly cross dressing and wearing makeup
26 started calling myself Kristy in my voicemail recording
36 saw therapist, went on HRT and partially identified as Kristy
37 moved and started HRT again, dressing a little more feminitely
41 started HRT again, and wife made agreement if I would give up Kristy
45 started HRT again, this time for good, because wife didn't hold up her end of the agreement.  New agreement with 11 year old son and wife is that Kristy be present only at certain times and not around strangers or family, unless they are ready to be a part of Kristy.
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FilaFord

Quote from: JordanBlue on February 18, 2014, 12:07:18 PM
There's not much point in debating this issue because everyone does indeed have their own thoughts on it.  Transition is a radical choice and for most people who make it, the only other choice is death.  It's pretty simple, really.  Don't transition unless it's absolutely necessary.

I don't think that I agree with that, mainly because it doesn't fit me!  lol

Transition was not absolutely necessary for me (well maybe not at that specific time in my life), but it was something that I chose to do.  My life as a man was getting overwhelming and I felt out of place a lot of times but it was certainly easier and I was a happy person.  I just was missing something, and I couldn't place my finger on it for the longest time.  Then I had an epiphany in December and it's been off to the races ever since.  I should/would have done this much earlier in life if I wasn't forced to repress it due to my upbringing (societal influences in my area did not take kindly to anything outside of the norm) and fear of my family rejecting me.

It's not a life or death thing for me.  I'd be alright continuing to live my lie as a man, and then getting dolled up once every now and then.  It's just not what I want.  It's never been what I want, but since I repressed it for so long I have learned to enjoy being a man as there are some obvious benefits.  It's just not for me!  I can fake the manly man with relative ease, but I know deep down I am feminine and now I am finally getting a chance to express that side of me and be who I want instead of who society told me I should be.

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