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Total Meltdown

Started by carrie359, January 24, 2014, 10:32:54 AM

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carrie359

So,

My question is do I really have a right to do this?
My wife and I had a total meltdown today during our morning coffee time.. so emotional I am considering stopping my meds but don't even know if I can.  I have never felt so good and normal in my life and finally am getting my body back in shape.
I have been married a long long time and overall have been a great loving hubby and have always protected my wife from harm.. and my kids who are grown not.
I am going to hurt so many.. my wife is so sweet and she is broken.. and its just killing me to the point I wish I would just be run over by a truck and end it.. because then it would all be over...
I will see my therapist Feb 6th and I plan to see her twice a month instead of every 4 weeks...but when I see her I become even more determined and I know she wants me to move all the way forward..  I can tell because when I push back she makes me realize who I am...
If I quite, I know I will go back to eating everything in site and get big again and drink.....but I could do that and just be the other me again and keep from hurting my family.  I just dont really know if I can face life again as the old me.. In the back of my mind I think I will end up hitting a bridge with my car one day..
If anyone has any suggestions that could help my wife I would appreciate it..
Carrie
  •  

Katie

Yes I have a suggestion for you. MAKE A DAMM DECISION. That could be to move forward or to remain the guy your wife knows. Once you make that decision then live with it and don't waver.

By walking both sides of the line you are not only messing with your own head but everyone elses as well. It would be far less stress on everyone for you to make ONE OF THE TWO DECISONS.
  •  

stephaniec

I don't know are you some how thinking you can have it both ways.
  •  

carrie359

I knew I could count on you Katie...and your are right!  You can be very frank but thats what I like about you... I can take it so I appreciate what you just said.
Point well taken. I won't stop the meds so I suppose I have made the decision.. my wife know I won't stop.  It's right for me but the collateral damage is going to pile up.. and that hurts. :(





Quote from: Katie on January 24, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
Yes I have a suggestion for you. MAKE A DAMM DECISION. That could be to move forward or to remain the guy your wife knows. Once you make that decision then live with it and don't waver.

By walking both sides of the line you are not only messing with your own head but everyone elses as well. It would be far less stress on everyone for you to make ONE OF THE TWO DECISONS.
  •  

carrie359

I want it both ways... I want us to stay together and be friends forever...but my wife and I both know that may not happen.
I will help her go to college and get a degree if she wants and won't abandon her financially.. we are so much better off financially together running our business.
I need her help and she needs me.. so yes I do want it both ways.. but know that's impossible long term.
Carrie



Quote from: stephaniec on January 24, 2014, 10:44:24 AM
I don't know are you some how thinking you can have it both ways.
  •  

kathyk

Just a little information.  I came out to my wife a bit more than 20 years ago and we stayed together.  But all the tenderness left the marriage back then, and we lived as good friends who loved each other.  And yet my need to be a woman never went away and I secretly took over-the-counter and unprescribed meds to feminize.  It was terribly dangerous, but I finally started prescribed HRT in July 2012.  My wife told me she wished we'd have separated 20 years back becuase she would have had a much more fulfilling life without me.  I finally left on my own accord last week, and  I can't tell you how good it is to know I'm living for "me" now. 

K





  •  

carrie359

Kathyk,
My wife has known since I almost transitioned in the early 90's.. she caught me with make up I had not gotten off completely and then found my stash.  I was given ok for HRT then did not do it.. went to a church repairative therapy thing and never helped but I pretended it did.
She wishes she had taken a therapist advise back then that said to leave me..when she was younger but we had  small kids.
Our marriage has been really good except I have never changed.  I got caught again but she did not say anything. I only found out when I came back out to her last september.

The reason the bell totally went off was when I went to see a therapist about my overeating.. and she started asking about my childhood an I freaked because I realized with this therapist I was not prepared to talk about my girly feelings back then.. so suddenly I felt helpless and realized why I was overeating.. i was not happy.
It was like I was living two lives.. as a girl for moments to get my fix then as a hubby the rest of the time.
So I have tried my best to be a guy and even been successful in everything else I do.. not sure how the hell I did it though...
I am pretty much done now.. life too short and want to be me.
I am slowly accepting that I need to let go of her.. I am hoping the Hormones will help..
I have never been so sad and happy at the same time.. .
Carrie





Quote from: kathyk on January 24, 2014, 11:03:34 AM
Just a little information.  I came out to my wife a bit more than 20 years ago and we stayed together.  But all the tenderness left the marriage back then, and we lived as good friends who loved each other.  And yet my need to be a woman never went away and I secretly took over-the-counter and unprescribed meds to feminize.  It was terribly dangerous, but I finally started prescribed HRT in July 2012.  My wife told me she wished we'd have separated 20 years back becuase she would have had a much more fulfilling life without me.  I finally left on my own accord last week, and  I can't tell you how good it is to know I'm living for "me" now. 

K
  •  

Rachel

Hugs Carrie,

I know what I am doing is affecting my wife and I feel bad for her. She wants what is her image of me (I never meet her image of a man). I can not make her happy (she says I am responsible to make her happy and how am I going to fix this). I can not go back to pre-HRT. I want to go further too.

I guess I am facing my fears, slowly, one at a time. One of the fears is being alone and hurting her.

I understand and sympathize. 
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
  •  

Ms Grace

One thing you have to know is that you are not hurting anyone. Your wife can choose to be part of your journey or not. She can choose to honour her vows to stick with you through thick or thin, or not. I understand and appreciate it may not be easy for her, but that isn't being inflicted on her by you. She could just as easily decide this was something she was going to accept and go along with. And she still may. The "hurt" is all a matter of internal attitude and perception. :)
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

amZo

QuoteI will see my therapist Feb 6th and I plan to see her twice a month instead of every 4 weeks...but when I see her I become even more determined and I know she wants me to move all the way forward..  I can tell because when I push back she makes me realize who I am...

She wants you to move all the way forward? Are you sure? My guess is she wants you to find the right path, only you can determine that (obviously I know).

When I was in group counseling, I was stunned at times just how little time many transwomen gave their wives to adjust and cope. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I've learned the hard way that yes.... patience is a virtue.

We're all different, but when I'm faced with tough decisions like this, I like to slow things down, take a step back and give people a breather, let them get more comfortable with everything. But that's me, it may not work for a lot of people.

You're in a tough position, I hope you're able to get some certainty soon regarding how best to move forward.  :)

  •  

amZo

Quote from: Katie on January 24, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
Yes I have a suggestion for you. MAKE A DAMM DECISION. That could be to move forward or to remain the guy your wife knows. Once you make that decision then live with it and don't waver.

By walking both sides of the line you are not only messing with your own head but everyone elses as well. It would be far less stress on everyone for you to make ONE OF THE TWO DECISONS.

More people are finding they don't fit in the binary spectrum. Some people do find a place in the middle somewhere and find this is best for them. I don't see it as walking both sides, in fact you're really not on either side. Which is fine if it makes a person happy. This may be an option to be considered.

  •  

carrie359

So very thankful for all the help here.. I am not in a mindset to type much now.. I did have a total complete utter amazing breakdown tonight.. seeing her so depressed..then she was consoling me.. It was like my life flashed before my eyes and suddenly even more from my early childhood came back.. that I had hidden.
Anyway, I do want to give her time.. to adjust..its just that I have protected her from harm all my life and we are very close and it hurts..bad.
Carrie
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JoanneB

Sounds so much like a typical month for me Carrie. For the past 3 years. I've had my good share and then some of the WTF am I doing???? meltdowns. My life isn't all that bad. I got by before, I can do it again. I managed for a good 30 years to get by, all I need is few more. Etc. etc. etc.. Yet in the end when you ask yourself the hard questions, I keep coming up with the one answer I cannot refute

I Know what doesn't work.

And that is all the above. The diversions, distractions, denial that enabled me to "Get by"...at a great cost. My soul, my spirit, my happiness. Avoiding the really dealing with my trans nature came at a great cost. It cost me and the others around as I slowly died inside and became a person I never want to be again.

I put in a lot of work these past 5 years to make myself better, to be one whole happy person and not this caricature of a man I made myself into while constantly trying to bury this other major aspect of me. Thanks to that work I lost most to all of the shame about being trans. I lost much of the guilt too, except when it comes to how this affects my wife.

She didn't sign up for this (neither did I but life happens). Just as I didn't sign up "sign up" for having to deal with her physical disability she now has, I was aware of the reality it may happen. My wife also knew of my history, that I was at least a CD, experimented with transitioning, been on/off HRT a few times. I had hoped for the best outcome for her future, just as she (and I) hoped I was simply a CDer, perhaps a tad more.

I worry more about is transitioning right for me and not over do I have a right to. Of the many great benefits these past years of struggling have brought, is a renewed self worth. I now believe to a large extent how blessed my life has been. That I deserve the things I worked hard for. That I am not a fraud, a faker that deserves only bad things. I also saw a life long dream come true. I can be seen as and accepted as a woman.

Yet, is it right for me? Every decision in life comes at a cost. The potential cost of transitioning is high. I can loose the respect of my coworkers. Even my job which can lead to financial ruin. My wife, as supportive as she is and my #1 ally, cannot make any commitment to stand by me. Which is fair. Afterall, I did kick over the table on us as it is. Without either of these my life sure would not be happier. So, is transition worth the risk? Is it right for me?

If I felt my therapist was pushing an agenda, I'd be out of there. Only I can make a decision I can be comfortable and confident about. I see the therapists role as there for reality checks and to challenge me. To get me to think or see things in ways I might have missed, or dismissed. All while looking out for my best interest. Part of that is my happiness.

Do I have a right to be happy? You bet! Am I happy now? Far better then I have been in decades. Is my life working? Is my relationship with my wife better and stronger than it ever has been in the well over 30 years we've been together? Yes and yes.

Do I have an abysmal record for predicting the future? For sure. Trying to define the future is really what was behind those WTF am I doing? meltdowns. It bothers me a lot that I cannot say "I have a goal". If I think harder about it though, I do. The same goal I set out to accomplish 5 years ago. That is to be happy. I also to a large extent have brought the two divergent aspects of myself together to make one whole happier and far healthier person.

I also fall of the wagon so to speak. Go back to my binge eating and too much booze at times. I haven't become an ascended master yet. I do know the whys and hows behind it which I can beat myself up over since it not only hurts me but also my wife. Totally opposite the "hurting them" behavior effects on her.

Remember that being TG means you are not living in a black & white world. There is an entire spectrum of colors between the two extremes. Remember that there is not one way to address being trans, more than one way to be happier. You have been taking the right steps so far. Like me you don't want to revert back to that person you were. Like me there are a ton of negative feelings and logic that needs to be unlearned or re-educated. I spent over 50 years training myself to see things in a certain way. As much as I hate it, the negative thoughts and feelings cannot be undone overnight. But they can and do faster and faster as your eyes re-open wider and wider.

You know what didn't work before. Odds are good it is not going to now
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
  •  

LizMarie

I can relate to what Joanne and others have said. I controlled my GID via obsessions. I would dive into something to the exclusion of everything else. At various times in my life my obsessions including hiking/running, programming (even though I also did that during the day), coaching youth soccer (so bad that it ate 28 of 30 evenings every month for 8 years), and online gaming.

My spouse just accepted it, even though we had extensive intimacy problems in bed (because of me, not her). And she has said similar things - why didn't you tell me years ago so I could have rebuilt my life then? And sometimes I want to snap back, "Well, witch, if I had you would have taken the kids from me, and tried to turned everyone I knew against me, just like you've tried now. The only difference now is that I realize I am strong enough to stand up to you and them." She's been angry that my siblings accept me, but she ensured that hers do not nor do her parents, nor do either of my adult sons. She needles me saying my mother, who died in 2012, would never have accepted me, but my siblings say she would have. After all, look how she raised them and they all still love me. :)

On the other hand, she's alienated many of my friends who did accept me, some saying that coming out suddenly "made sense" about all the non-male things that never quite did add up about me. She accuses them of "enabling" me in my "delusions". She even demanded we see multiple therapists to get "second opinions" but after three different therapists told her the exact same thing ("Yes, she's trans and she needs to do this") she became infuriated at the psychiatric profession, claiming they just tell people what they want to hear, and now refuses to get therapy for her own depression and grief (at the collapse of our marriage, engineered by her).

What it comes back to though is that none of that ever worked. None of it ever brought me relief. None of it stopped the darkness, the constant wondering if I would be better off dead, and the eventual slide towards preparing to eventually do exactly that. And I hear this refrain over and over and over again from so many trans women - lying to yourself, distracting yourself, living a lie for someone else's sake, all this never works and eventually comes home to roost anyway.

I wish I had know all this 30 years ago. I wish I had been strong enough then to deal with this 30 years ago. But I wasn't and I can't bother crying over spilled milk.

But I will tell you that if you think you can be a better parent and husband by lying (especially lying to yourself, because that is what you are doing), then you are wrong, and maybe dead wrong. I've met some transwomen who deal with their GID in other ways and continue to live male, but they don't lie to themselves about it and they know full well who and what they really are. And a few of those I know don't exactly seem totally happy to me either, just managing to hold things together.

You'll be a better person by being you. That doesn't mean there won't be challenges or maybe even hard times but those challenges and hard times almost all come from other people who are trying to force you to live to their expectations, not yours. Remember that.
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.



~ Cara Elizabeth
  •  

carrie359

Liz Marie and Joanne B
I am so grateful for your taking time to reply.. I can tell you both put your heart and soul into it and reached down deep to try and help me.. That I will never forget. I will print out your responses and save for my rainy days..
What amazes me is how similar many trans story's are...and how we each have dealt with it in our lives.
I am proud of what I have accomplished as a husband and father...but looking back see  the diversions and understand now why I behaved in certain ways over the years.
Last night was a cascade of fear, guilt, shame and pain that came rushing into my forehead as If I were that little kid in pain when I was in middle school.. I remembered things I had blocked out.. how I just existed.. not with males in school and not being able to interact with females.. I felt like I was living on the other side of a glass wall emotionally. I was a shy timid little girl in a boy's body... and did not even know what was wrong...
And as many I learned early on to survive and act like a boy...after being shamed even by my own mother..but she did not know better..My father, a coach and well known straightened me out...and I became an amazing athlete..and put all my energy into that being my identity even to the point of destroying one of my knees..since I would not quite even on dr.'s orders.
My wife, she is an angel.. she supports me fully to be me but it hurts her to know the man will be gone.  I already act differently...I suppose slowly feminizing the way I react and just being a little more me.
I feel better today.. we both are...
Thanks so much
Carrie


  •  

ThePhoenix

So many families have so many problems when a member comes out as trans*.  That's true whether the trans person is a spouse, a child, or anything else.  So often the other family members get upset because "you doing this is selfish and hurtful to me" or "I'm worried and I don't want you to do this awful thing."  So often this is all in the name of love.  As in "I love you, and I can't believe you are doing this awful and hurtful thing" or "I love you so I'm worried and don't want you to do this awful thing."

In response, I wonder what is love?  I am no expert on that, but there are some things that I believe love is NOT.  For example, I believe that love is NOT rejecting, selfish, or unkind.  It does not withhold itself.  It is not possessive.  Sadly, it is not painless. 

So I believe it is not live to reject someone's need for an authentic life, even if that need is foreign to the other person.  I believe it is not love to selfishly focus on one person's sexual or other desires rather than on the other person's bonafide needs.  I believe it is not love to unkindly drag a person over hot coals because of who they are in their truest being.  And for OP, it would not be love to withhold who you truly are.

So perhaps you could ask your wife to think about what love truly is here.  It may be that the relationship ends or changes.  And undoubtedly that is painful.  But love is not possessive.  Sometimes it means letting go.

I believe that love will let you do what you must.  Love will let you be who you truly are.  And if the other person cannot accept that or continue the relationship as it is, then love will require both of you to let one another go with each other's sincerest best wishes.  That may hurt, but that too may be love. 

So perhaps a good question for the wife is:  what is love?  Or "what does love do here?"

  •  

muffinpants

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on January 24, 2014, 06:20:32 PM
I know what I am doing is affecting my wife and I feel bad for her. She wants what is her image of me (I never meet her image of a man). I can not make her happy (she says I am responsible to make her happy and how am I going to fix this).

That is very unhealthy for her to put her happiness in your hands. and a hefty responsibility for anyone... man or woman. I think you should suggest that she see a councilor. She needs to learn to find her own happiness in life, as you are doing.

Carrie, has your wife ever read anything or watching anything about trans people? My gf's parents as well as my mother really came around once viewing and reading more about trans people. They seemed to think it was something that could be fixed or changed.. and I think that was just from a lack of knowledge (and if it's on tv, it must be real! ::) whatever.. worked to my advantage this time). If she is open-minded and wants the relationship to work, I think she may come around, at least to friendship, if she can understand the struggle you have gone through your whole life.. you've given her so much of your life and suppressed what you want.. it's time for you to live for yourself a bit. You only live once... and changing the way you look and are perceived is really not a selfish decision in the slightest... it does not change who you are fundamentally as a person.. people's looks change all the time.. age, makeup, accidents, surgery... change is a natural part of life and it should not be a negative thing.
  •  

carrie359

Muffinpants,
My wife has given me her full blessing on transition but prays I will change my mind.
She also told me we will always be the very best of friends if I do it so our love will not change from that standpoint.
I really love her and want her to always be part of my life..
I think the real problem is me letting go and letting her go through the pain process.
She is fortunate in that I will never hurt her financially or her me.. we may just run our business as partners.. for her key is security..and on the other side she says she loves me and will miss who I was ..
She has not read anything about trans.. i have had to teach her. but the other day she said something I have heard others say about what wifes say and that its that they are slowly watching the person they knew die and become someone else..
For me its wonderful...to feel so good and for her its a nightmare...
I am also a sentimental fool... been that way always... so the man is having a hard time departing but I must say the woman is now fully in charge of this body and the hrt is helping her...
Thanks so much for your response,
Carrie





Quote from: muffinpants on January 25, 2014, 12:11:58 PM
That is very unhealthy for her to put her happiness in your hands. and a hefty responsibility for anyone... man or woman. I think you should suggest that she see a councilor. She needs to learn to find her own happiness in life, as you are doing.

Carrie, has your wife ever read anything or watching anything about trans people? My gf's parents as well as my mother really came around once viewing and reading more about trans people. They seemed to think it was something that could be fixed or changed.. and I think that was just from a lack of knowledge (and if it's on tv, it must be real! ::) whatever.. worked to my advantage this time). If she is open-minded and wants the relationship to work, I think she may come around, at least to friendship, if she can understand the struggle you have gone through your whole life.. you've given her so much of your life and suppressed what you want.. it's time for you to live for yourself a bit. You only live once... and changing the way you look and are perceived is really not a selfish decision in the slightest... it does not change who you are fundamentally as a person.. people's looks change all the time.. age, makeup, accidents, surgery... change is a natural part of life and it should not be a negative thing.
  •  

carrie359

The Phoenix,
Yep she does love me.. held me last night when I broke down and told me..
She even said not to give up on my dream just because of her...
I think she is going to try to hide being upset because of the way I react.
We cuddled for an hour last night..felt so good
Then she got hot flashes from menopause so we had to stop..
She is going through menopause and I am going through puberty and second childhood.. what a combination
Thanks for your reply .. I really appreciate it..
Carrie




Quote from: ThePhoenix on January 25, 2014, 12:02:14 PM
So many families have so many problems when a member comes out as trans*.  That's true whether the trans person is a spouse, a child, or anything else.  So often the other family members get upset because "you doing this is selfish and hurtful to me" or "I'm worried and I don't want you to do this awful thing."  So often this is all in the name of love.  As in "I love you, and I can't believe you are doing this awful and hurtful thing" or "I love you so I'm worried and don't want you to do this awful thing."

In response, I wonder what is love?  I am no expert on that, but there are some things that I believe love is NOT.  For example, I believe that love is NOT rejecting, selfish, or unkind.  It does not withhold itself.  It is not possessive.  Sadly, it is not painless. 

So I believe it is not live to reject someone's need for an authentic life, even if that need is foreign to the other person.  I believe it is not love to selfishly focus on one person's sexual or other desires rather than on the other person's bonafide needs.  I believe it is not love to unkindly drag a person over hot coals because of who they are in their truest being.  And for OP, it would not be love to withhold who you truly are.

So perhaps you could ask your wife to think about what love truly is here.  It may be that the relationship ends or changes.  And undoubtedly that is painful.  But love is not possessive.  Sometimes it means letting go.

I believe that love will let you do what you must.  Love will let you be who you truly are.  And if the other person cannot accept that or continue the relationship as it is, then love will require both of you to let one another go with each other's sincerest best wishes.  That may hurt, but that too may be love. 

So perhaps a good question for the wife is:  what is love?  Or "what does love do here?"
  •  

JoanneB

Carrie, your wife sounds so much as mine just as what you are experiencing is much like my own. My wife and I have always been best friends, soulmates (though she doesn't really like that term) and lastly lovers. Most of all we put the others happiness and needs above our own.

While my wife and especially I, have cried a few gallons of tears over these past 5 years, I know she will tell you that she is also better for it. Yes, she still is a bit upset over the "Betrayal" part with me hoping being a CD'er would be enough. She is also the major recipient of positive changes in me and my attitudes. I cannot count how often she has been on the verge of "checking out" one way or the other, or even walking out over the previous 10 or so years as I devolved into that facade of a man with even odder ways of dealing with life. The shutting down emotionally, the shutting her out more and more to "spare her the pain".

Six years ago when I lost my dream job and life was totally turned upside down there was no way I would have predicted the events that followed nor imagine how that event changed my life in such a positive way. By that same token I cannot say where I'll be in another 6 years.

In a perfect world I know what I'd like to see happen. For now, I am in a much better place, far happier than I could have imagined. Have an even closer relationship then ever with my wife. Finally happy to a large degree being in my skin. Especially those days I can be the real me out there in the real world. I smile every morning when I wake up, look in the mirror, and see Joanne. It all kind of sort of works. For now. Perhaps always.
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
  •