~ Trapped by sexuality?? ~

[Stella Stanhope]

~ Hi there all! Gotta a quick Q to those on low-dose HRT. And also, I'm wondering if anyone has felt the same way ~

Unlike most (if not all??) of those who are MTF, I do not hate the intensity of male sex drive, I don't mind thinking about sex alot, the urge does not bother me. But what DOES bother me, is the fact that this sexuality is hugely at odds with how I wish to present, look and interact with people. I have no direct issue with my male sex drive as such, its more the fact that it makes me feel like I'm trapped by it as in order to keep the sex drive I have to look like I don't really want to.

An example is when I go to a nightclub, and I'd like to perhaps kiss a girl whilst there. I would like to dress feminine & act the way that comes most naturally to me, however I know that this will ensure that I will get absolutely no girl attention. So, I dress like a typical dude with as much as a cisnormative male can get away with. I also let my stubble grow. I feel bored by having to do this, and increasingly angered by it, but I still do it as I fancy women strongly, and feel a deep need to hug, kiss, cuddle and go to bed with women. So I'm in this merry go-round of having massive doubts about taking any HRT or having facial hair removal largely because of this issue.

~                   ~                    ~

I do have an "other" sex drive (technically making me bisexual), which appears to be alot closer to a normal woman's sexuality, with a primary attraction to males. I've always had this "other" sex drive, and have been aware of it. It made me very uncomfortable due to it being completely at odds with my attraction and sexuality towards women. Since accepting it though, its grown and now feels mentally and emotionally more fulfilling than the male. But currently, the male sexuality is my actual biological one, so its the one that's actually "real" in a physical one. Chasing and dating girls is one of the only things I can properly relate to with other guys.

The way I see myself, enjoy my sexuality and body is like what would happen if a lesbian cis-girl woke up to find herself with a penis - she'd be excited that she owned the the perfect tool to use for her sexual orientation, despite still preferring to identify as female. For me, it feels that the fun aspect is wearing off now that I am aware I'm going to become increasing male the older I get. And increasingly, sex just feels emptier as I feel I have to trade who I am just to date the girls I fancy.

Logically speaking, I probably spend around 95% of my time doing things other than sexually or relationship related, at best I'd spend 5%- 10% of my time in bed with a woman, so I ask myself "is that small amount of time really worth the hassle of remaining fully male?" Sex is amazing, but for that little amount of time I spend doing it, it doesn't seem worth watching my hair rot, my body bulk out in ugly shapes, body hair springing up like weeds, etc etc. But still,,, STILL,,,, I don't want to loose the sexuality as its an unknown, and I fancy women. My ->-bleeped-<- would be sooooo much more straightforward if I were attracted solely to males.

Has anyone else had these same thoughts, and how did you come to terms with this issue?

My question is this; Can you still feminize (especially facially) whilst maintaining a sex drive on low-dose HRT? Or do you HAVE to annihilate all the T in your system on max-strength HRT to get any feminisation at all?

[amZo]

Everyone is different. I have virtually no T, but my sexual function down there is still very normal. I don't think that's typical though, but it is possible. Progesterone can help with sex drive and sexual function when added to your HRT.

[Jessica Merriman]

This is a very hard question girl. A lot of things come into play with HRT such as age, metabolism, genetics, body mass and lab counts to start with. I know that is not an answer, but it is just too hard to guess about. I personally see HRT as a go all the way as efficiently as possible because I want SRS within two years. Hopefully someone on low HRT can help a little more, but HRT is pretty much body specific and the effects of the same dose on others will usually always be different. It may come down to a simple decision of what you want the most.

[Stella Stanhope]

Hey, thanks for the comments you two

Yep.... ultimately I'm beginning to see that this is essentially a battle of self-expression versus sex-drive And I friggin' hate to have to make such a ridiculous choice.

It annoys me, and makes me laugh how cis-female have it all - a rewarding sex-drive AND the form and gender role they want. Grrrrr.

Progresterone seems a scary hormone from what I've read though  I've heard and read that Viagra is useful in such circumstances, so I guess I'd try that first to asist with the physical effects. As for brain effects though, that'll be pot-luck whether I'll stay interested in sex or not I guess. I hope I do, as there are a million positive reasons to want to continue getting aroused.

Weirdly, It's always taken me aggggggessss to maintain a rigideness to perform when I'm with a woman. When I'm there however, I'm there for ages and can go again soon after, but it takes a while and lots of fantasy to generate enough energy to keep it up. When I'm alone though, and I feel like the girl, I go on for hours and hours, and wouldn't stop unless there was other stuff to do. I have a very confusing, creative, complicated and evolving sexuality that seems to be on its very own planet.

[Jessica Merriman]

HRT changes most people from wham bam, thinking of it all the time to a more deeply enriching experience mostly. It seems to involve the whole body instead of just a few parts taking longer, but much more fulfilling. Who knows? This is what I hear.

[suzifrommd]

I have a strong sex drive with no detectable T in my system. It's different - more of a female feeling, but still strong.

And yes, I wish I were a straight girl. I may still be, but no interest yet in the beefier sex.

[Stella Stanhope]

HRT changes most people from wham bam, thinking of it all the time to a more deeply enriching experience mostly.

The thing is, I'm not a wham bam guy at all, despite thinking about it all the time. I like tons of foreplay and kissing, and play, things like random pillow fighting, and then along the way the sex just happens. Penetration never seems to be the goal with me. When I actually get round to it, I suddenly think "Oh, this is awesome! I forgot it feels so awesome! But I still prefer to foreplay and exploration of my partner's body and their's of mine. And then afterwards, if its a particularly good and mutually rewarding session I'll have a massive craving for chocolate. Sounds very cliched and like I'm trying-oh-so-hard to portray myself as female, but I genuinely do like pillow fights and chocolate as well as penetrating a girl.

Intiriguingly.... the more I explore my feminine side generally, the more my arousal takes longer to get going, ad the more intense the release is. Could be psychosomatic perhaps? There's been a definite shift though. It takes me much longer to get aroused now and often I get bored halfway through and get distracted by something else. This has happened exactly at the point that I began really accepting the feminine side. When I am aroused, I can't stop feeling aroused! so its not a physical ailment definitely, I just don't seem to get automatically aroused now that I don't identify as male.

What IS a female's sexuality? What descriptive and emotive words could describe it?
And what words would be used to describe a man's sexuality?

[Missadventure]

Unlike most (if not all??) of those who are MTF, I do not hate the intensity of male sex drive, I don't mind thinking about sex alot, the urge does not bother me. But what DOES bother me, is the fact that this sexuality is hugely at odds with how I wish to present, look and interact with people. I have no direct issue with my male sex drive as such, its more the fact that it makes me feel like I'm trapped by it as in order to keep the sex drive I have to look like I don't really want to.

An example is when I go to a nightclub, and I'd like to perhaps kiss a girl whilst there. I would like to dress feminine & act the way that comes most naturally to me, however I know that this will ensure that I will get absolutely no girl attention. So, I dress like a typical dude with as much as a cisnormative male can get away with. I also let my stubble grow. I feel bored by having to do this, and increasingly angered by it, but I still do it as I fancy women strongly, and feel a deep need to hug, kiss, cuddle and go to bed with women. So I'm in this merry go-round of having massive doubts about taking any HRT or having facial hair removal largely because of this issue.

Welcome to the entirety of my 20's. I'd play the role of the guy to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman, then I'd get frustrated pretending to be the guy she wanted me to be -mind you, I really did love these women and had a deep emotional connection with them, and kept trying to be a "guy" for them - but ultimately I'd just end up angry at myself, and wanting to transition, and ultimately resenting the woman for being the "impediment" to me transitioning. When the relationship would end, I'd start progress towards transition, until the next girl who caught my fancy came along, and then the process would repeat.

In my last relationship I actually tried telling the girl in the very beginning of my desires to transition, thinking "If I tell her now, before I get emotionally attached to her, she can opt out." Sadly, that didn't happen, and I spent yet another two unhappy years of my life trapping both of us in that relationship.

And knowing that about myself, I've actually been really frustrated lately. The last few weeks, for reasons I don't understand, as my appearance and mannerisms have sharply gone from "masculine" to at best androgynous, is that I've had a LOT of women show interest in me. Which is new to me. Women have historically never showed this much interest in me in numbers like this. But, all I keep thinking is "I'm not stopping my transition this time. I owe it to myself. Now, what to do about these ladies? I'd love to bat my eyelashes back and see where things go. But, they think I'm a guy. Maybe a slightly effeminate guy, but a guy nonetheless. As I continue to transition past androgynous and on to being more or less totally feminine will their interest remain? I mean, I'm changing genders, sure, but I can't expect them to change their sexual preference as a result."

Also, as much as I enjoy sex, the novelty of having sex with someone new wears off and I start dysphorically fantasizing that I'm feeling what they're feeling during sex. It apparently makes me REALLY good at it, from what I'm told, but, for me it's this messed up mix of erotic pleasure and depression.

[kelly_aus]

My sex drive is my sex drive.. I won't claim it has a 'male' or 'female' label.. And, being honest, it hasn't really changed all that much. What I want has changed a little, but that's probably the biggest change. I'm a lesbian and don't have too much trouble finding a willing partner...

Yes, I'm on a full HRT regime, my T level is effectively zip - it all still does what I want it to.

[Bardoux]

What's to say you can't be with other woman if you don't identify as male?

[sad panda]

Umm, with 2 yrs of HRT my sex drive/function/uality didn't change at all so... I never got what people mean by "male sex drive" though  maybe it's because I prefer guys (though I am pan)

[Ltl89]

While hrt may present some changes in this department, it depends on the individual.  Most women I know on hrt still have a sex drive, so it's not like you have to sacrifice any interest in sex.  Just remember that hormones can, and likely will, have a strong impact on how some body parts operate.  If penetration is very important to you, then do know that it may be much more difficult to get into the desired state or maintain it.  As for libido it differs from person to person.  My sex drive has diminished, but I still have one.  It's just more of an emotional one, if that makes sense, and sometimes it's even stronger than before though this was after a few months on hormones.  Since I've been on hrt the desire to have a boyfriend and be intimate with someone has become much more stronger than it was prior to hormones.  So, if you are worried about losing interest in sex, then don't worry too much.  Things may change a bit, but it's unlikely for you to completely lose your libido and it will likely only be temp if it does happen.  As for functionality, you may have a problem, but I supoose this differs with everyone  Keep in mind that I'm a virgin, so I can't talk too much about sex itself than I can about the impact of hormones.  Hope that helps in some way.

By the way, there are many lesbians here that have had no issue attracting women.  Sure, it will likely change how you approach everything and how you are intimate, but you shouldn't feel like you have to act as a guy to attract everyone girl. 

[Stella Stanhope]

Welcome to the entirety of my 20's. I'd play the role of the guy to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman, then I'd get frustrated pretending to be the guy she wanted me to be -mind you, I really did love these women and had a deep emotional connection with them, and kept trying to be a "guy" for them - but ultimately I'd just end up angry at myself, and wanting to transition, and ultimately resenting the woman for being the "impediment" to me transitioning. When the relationship would end, I'd start progress towards transition, until the next girl who caught my fancy came along, and then the process would repeat.

Hmmmmmmm..... Often I feel that, perhaps my being transgender is more of a conscious choice than something ultimately unavoidable, and then I read posts like your's Missadventure, and they're so strikingly similar that the world suddenly feels like its spinning and I wonder if I'm in control or have any deep realisation about myself at all...

I have never been able to work out why I feel trapped in every relationship I get into. Something has always felt very wrong. So I've chalked it up to my being a commitment-phobe or something subconsciously orientated like that.  Have you thought that too Missadventure? Ultimately I won't know whether I am or not till further down the line. And perhaps it does have alot to do with feeling trapped in male role in a relationship, I certainly do know that it feels stifling and depressing. I don't mind being a girl's "boyfriend" as long as I can be my own person and a "boyfriend" which I want to be, which is a cross between a girlfriend and a boyfriend. I love doing the traditional boy-stuff for a girlfriend, its fun, but I don't want to be the boy...as such. And I do wish I could have my turn to be bought flowers, and surprised by weekends away and get to be the girlfriend. It often feels emotionally exhausting being a boyfriend for long periods, as it means I have to be constantly in the role of being a man and therefore do the expected stuff in order to make the relationship work. I always thought it was because I was just a shy introvert, but I've found out I'm definitely not an introvert, simply a late bloomer, so its not that.

The last few weeks, for reasons I don't understand, as my appearance and mannerisms have sharply gone from "masculine" to at best androgynous, is that I've had a LOT of women show interest in me. Which is new to me. Women have historically never showed this much interest in me in numbers like this. But, all I keep thinking is "I'm not stopping my transition this time. I owe it to myself. Now, what to do about these ladies? I'd love to bat my eyelashes back and see where things go. But, they think I'm a guy. Maybe a slightly effeminate guy, but a guy nonetheless. As I continue to transition past androgynous and on to being more or less totally feminine will their interest remain? I mean, I'm changing genders, sure, but I can't expect them to change their sexual preference as a result."

Oh yesh! The same has happened to me. I picked up a girl in a club (which I've never managed to do before) in the exact same month when I thought "right this is how its going to be I guess. My presentation is now androgynous, therefore straight girls will think I'm gay or an effeminate wuss, so this is it. Bye bye girls and relationships." So I just ploughed into being myself and not caring about what (previously) potential suitors or general people thought. And then I received interest from straight girls.

Its because females are very often attracted to guys who have an "I don't care attitude" about things and aren't trying to impress people, because they already are secure within themselves. Therefore females see this type of man as self-sufficient, self-motivated, doesn't need anyone's approval to be himself and ultimately has his sh*t together. And so most are attracted to that attitude, as its closer to the alpha-male ideal. So perhaps that's why we both received sudden interest. We stopped conforming to get relationships, the girls noticed we weren't trying, and they liked the attitude. I am not of course saying you are a guy, but as you were presenting as male at the time, then that's what the gender they attached your personality onto.

Also, as much as I enjoy sex, the novelty of having sex with someone new wears off and I start dysphorically fantasizing that I'm feeling what they're feeling during sex. It apparently makes me REALLY good at it, from what I'm told, but, for me it's this messed up mix of erotic pleasure and depression.

Yes, that's identical to myself too. My body loves the sex, but there's something not right in the brain and I can feel something is off, but I can't think what. I tend to be more comfortable giving pleasure than receiving, and that tends to be well received. I've never directly imagine myself as a woman during sex though, its always via a proxy, such as I'll have to think about some famous hot girl or a fantasy. Its like there's a mental barrier during penetrative sex, mentally its quite an effort to perform that. I chalked that up to performance anxiety, and once again, I guess I'll never know for sure? But perhaps its due to part of my brain wiring going "eh? we're not supposed to be the pitcher!" or something like that. I've never analysed my feelings during sex as I've been concentrating like crazy to make sure I don't screw up the act. Sex is very stressful for me.

Sad Panda and Post Trans Rebel - its encouraging that not everyone's sex-drive dies, and not everyone hates their sex drive. As I certainly feel like a minority on Susan's usually. Especially when I read about HRT effects, with the most celebrated effect usually being "I don't have any libido anymore, yay!" I can't really understand why anyone would celebrate the loss of ability to be intimate and passionate with someone. Especially when we live in a world of consistent disappointment & sadness. I like to retain as much of my abilities to enjoy excitement and enjoyment as possible.

Feel free to post more of your own observations on how your drives have modified or remained consistent, whilst on HRT. Are you both on low or high doses?

Bardoux and LearningtoLive - thanks for the advice. I used to joke that I'd be more suited to being a lesbian, but I didn't take my comments seriously. I can't imagine being a lesbian, despite the fact that increasingly as I realise, my personality and identity seems to be that of a tomboy lesbian. However.... it just feels a bit nuts in my case to imagine lesbians being attracted to me when I look like a guy, and I'm dubious about facial feminisation at my age (28). Mehhhhhh

[kelly_aus]

I sometimes wonder if the reduced libido is actually an effect of HRT or whether it's mostly in the heads of the people talking about it. A sex drive is a fairly normal thing for a woman to have.

As far as what I want changing, I get far more enjoyment from pure physical intimacy that I do actual sex acts.

[izzy]

If you use your male parts during hormone transition, the odds that it would be more functional is increased significantly versus not using them. I think there is research to prove that.  As far as hormones, I dont believe they affect sexual orientation in anyway.

[Missadventure]

Hmmmmmmm..... Often I feel that, perhaps my being transgender is more of a conscious choice than something ultimately unavoidable, and then I read posts like your's Missadventure, and they're so strikingly similar that the world suddenly feels like its spinning and I wonder if I'm in control or have any deep realisation about myself at all...

I dunno. I've felt "off", gender wise, since at least age 5 (I can't remember any incidents before that age, but, I also can't remember anything from before that age)... It wasn't until the dawn of the internet (To date myself, I still remember when finding a book in a library required the use of a card catalog) that I discovered my feelings were a real thing. So, I'd say my feelings and desires to transition are not a conscious choice. However, acting upon them definitely is. I could've lived out the rest of my life as a man, if need be. I just never would've been successful at it, and would've continued trying and failing over and over. But, after my last relationship very slowly and painfully crumbled, followed by my downstairs neighbor accidentally burning my house to the ground (nearly with me still inside) 10 days after my ex moved out... Well, I went through a really depressed and introspective few months, at the end of which I made a lot of important self realizations. One of which is that I NEED to transition in order to be anything more than a pretender.

I have never been able to work out why I feel trapped in every relationship I get into. Something has always felt very wrong. So I've chalked it up to my being a commitment-phobe or something subconsciously orientated like that.  Have you thought that too Missadventure? Ultimately I won't know whether I am or not till further down the line. And perhaps it does have alot to do with feeling trapped in male role in a relationship, I certainly do know that it feels stifling and depressing. I don't mind being a girl's "boyfriend" as long as I can be my own person and a "boyfriend" which I want to be, which is a cross between a girlfriend and a boyfriend. I love doing the traditional boy-stuff for a girlfriend, its fun, but I don't want to be the boy...as such. And I do wish I could have my turn to be bought flowers, and surprised by weekends away and get to be the girlfriend. It often feels emotionally exhausting being a boyfriend for long periods, as it means I have to be constantly in the role of being a man and therefore do the expected stuff in order to make the relationship work. I always thought it was because I was just a shy introvert, but I've found out I'm definitely not an introvert, simply a late bloomer, so its not that.

I've actually always been the opposite of a commitment phobe. I fall fast and fall hard. I'm always the first in a relationship to say "I love you". And I never say it frivolously. I mean it. It also makes it hard for me to "let go" of relationships when the end. My latest ex and I split last June, but I still have strong feelings for her, and, despite the fact that I now live in a completely different state and the fact that she's made it clear it wont happen I still find myself actively trying to keep her a close part of my life.

Although, I too can say I love doing the traditional boyfriend stuff. I'm a foolish romantic to the core. I love doing sweet romantic gestures for the women in my life. I love caring for them. And I love pampering them in the way a woman should be pampered. Yet, I also want that done to me, and as I was pretending to be the "man" that just wasn't going to happen. And that was something I only recently realized. Until I realized that I just frustratingly felt like my relationships were one sided, and that they must not love me, and it caused me to get broody and passive aggressive. And that just added to the resentment of feeling trapped.

Oh yesh! The same has happened to me. I picked up a girl in a club (which I've never managed to do before) in the exact same month when I thought "right this is how its going to be I guess. My presentation is now androgynous, therefore straight girls will think I'm gay or an effeminate wuss, so this is it. Bye bye girls and relationships." So I just ploughed into being myself and not caring about what (previously) potential suitors or general people thought. And then I received interest from straight girls.

Its because females are very often attracted to guys who have an "I don't care attitude" about things and aren't trying to impress people, because they already are secure within themselves. Therefore females see this type of man as self-sufficient, self-motivated, doesn't need anyone's approval to be himself and ultimately has his sh*t together. And so most are attracted to that attitude, as its closer to the alpha-male ideal. So perhaps that's why we both received sudden interest. We stopped conforming to get relationships, the girls noticed we weren't trying, and they liked the attitude. I am not of course saying you are a guy, but as you were presenting as male at the time, then that's what the gender they attached your personality onto.

This makes perfect sense in the context of my relationship cycle. Because with the exception of my highschool sweetheart, every time I've entered into a relationship it was within a period where I was strongly considering transitioning, and was therefor probably more confident and at ease with myself and where I wanted to go in life. And, their interests in me always wane when I started pretending to be the guy they wanted me to be in order to "keep them", which I wasn't, and my lack of confidence at being that guy definitely showed through.

I hadn't thought about it in that context before. So, thanks for helping me work that one through my mind! :-)

Yes, that's identical to myself too. My body loves the sex, but there's something not right in the brain and I can feel something is off, but I can't think what. I tend to be more comfortable giving pleasure than receiving, and that tends to be well received. I've never directly imagine myself as a woman during sex though, its always via a proxy, such as I'll have to think about some famous hot girl or a fantasy. Its like there's a mental barrier during penetrative sex, mentally its quite an effort to perform that. I chalked that up to performance anxiety, and once again, I guess I'll never know for sure? But perhaps its due to part of my brain wiring going "eh? we're not supposed to be the pitcher!" or something like that. I've never analysed my feelings during sex as I've been concentrating like crazy to make sure I don't screw up the act. Sex is very stressful for me.

I too am much more comfortable giving than receiving pleasure. No one I've dated has understood why I don't like being gone down on, but I quite frankly don't like it, and cant "finish" when I've actually let women do it. Not only is it too one sided, but it's a very prominent reminder of "Hey, you have a penis!" Whereas with penetrative sex I can focus on her, and giving her pleasure. And although I do spend the whole act wishing I could feel that pleasure from that perspective as well and being depressed that I'm not, being able to focus on giving pleasure is enough of a distraction from that "Hey, you have a penis!" thing to allow me to enjoy my pleasure as well.

I dunno if that describes it very well. It's confusing and pretty messed up. Dualities aren't fun.

[Nicole]

I sometimes wonder if the reduced libido is actually an effect of HRT or whether it's mostly in the heads of the people talking about it. A sex drive is a fairly normal thing for a woman to have.

As far as what I want changing, I get far more enjoyment from pure physical intimacy that I do actual sex acts.

100% agree.

Your triggers change, but your drive doesn't, you're able to control it better

[big kim]

I had a very low libido as a man,it's even lower now after 24 years HRT.Just as well I'm single!

[kellibra]

i'm pre-hrt and i have always had an admiration for women. women to me are gods. i naturally gravitate towards them, want to interact with them, want to cuddle and be soft with them, want to brush their long hair, do their nails, dress them, want to be a gf to them but also feel strong sexual desires towards them.
yet somewhere in the back of my mind maybe because i sometimes feel i should have been born a girl, is also the desire, no maybe curiosity is a better word, to be a woman for a man. cannot explain it but the more i dress and appear as a woman for real and in my mind, the more i want to slip into a passive woman's role, be seduced, be appreciated for who i am, experience a first kiss and so on. of course, i have never experienced that in the real world but i ma intrigued. i wonder how hrt would affect this?
the odd thing is that i feel zero attraction to men in general and in fact would prefer to avoid them altogether. confusing and sexually stressful... what to do?