What Is Having Me Question Things About My Wife and I

[Sydney_NYC]

First a little backstory

My wife has accepted and supported my transitioning and we decided to have not expectations but try and work things out. We have always been close and also have always been best friends. Since coming out we both agree there were no expectations that we would stay married, but we both hoped that we we be able to and stay happy. (We also own a small company together.) We've have good days and bad days and some heated arguments about me lying to her by not telling her I was transgender earlier even though I had been in denial to myself for some long. The same day I realized it is when I told her. At first she didn't believe me, but after a while she did. Yes, it's not fair to her, but she knows it's not fair for me to keep living a lie.

We've been closer lately than even before I started HRT. She identifies as Queer/Pansexual and at times she will say she is bisexual but if you tell her she is, she gets upset. She hasn't been out to her parents (even though she told me she would come out after I came out to them that I'm transponder MtF.) She claims that it's not that she is in denial about being bi (several of my lesbian friends with gaydar swear she is really a lesbian in denial.) A month ago I came out to her parents and their was reaction was OK at first but then they later they think I'm converting their daughter to a lesbian after 16 years of marriage. She has hinted to her parents by saying she has found women attractive, but that's it, she didn't really say she was bisexual. She did have a D/S relationship with sexual exchanges from another woman last summer prior to me even coming out to her about being transgender. A month after telling her parent about me, they have been more accepting of me and we even talk on the phone. (They live in TN, we live in Northern NJ.) Still they feel she needs to be rescued and she needs to come and visit them.  I have also been out to everyone since then and have nothing but positive support with the exception of my father (divorced from my mother) when I came out to my immediate family in October.


I thought things were going well until Valentines Day evening.


My Valentines Day evening started off bad but still managed to good time with the help of friends. Valentine's Day is also my wife's and I anniversary. She had been feeling bad most of the week from a serious migraine but I still made plans to surprise her with that night. (I did tell her I had something planned.) That morning I surprised her with some chocolate and a card and she felt bad that she had not had a chance to get something (she always waits till the last minute.) I told her not to worry as she had been sick on Wednesday and we were snowed in on Thursday.

I had to go see a client that afternoon and she needed to take a friend to the airport and my client is right next to the airport. So she dropped me off and picked up her friend and took her to the airport giving her time to get a card or something if she wanted. She could have sent me an e-card or made something (she is a programmer and a graphic artists) and I would have been perfectly happy. Anyway she picked me up at the client around 5pm (it was good timing on that part) and then she told me she was invited to a ex-girlfriend's (the one she had the experience with in the summer) new Girlfriend and her kids for Valentines dinner they were having. I was invited too, but she wanted to go alone. I'm also friends with both of them. She asked if I was OK with that, and I said well it is Valentine's Day and our Anniversary, but do what you want. (And I didn't get a card or anything.) She said she would cancel if she wanted me to, but at that point I wanted her to just go as I wanted to spend time away from her myself after she told me her intentions. She then tried to justify herself by saying we have been together nearly 24/7 for several weeks which we are together a lot since we work together, but there have been 2 or 3 days a week where I'm at a client or getting electrolysis etc. Even then of all days to do this, it upset me. After we left the client I drove and she spoke with her mom on the cell phone the 30 min drive home. When we got home, she was getting ready and apologized again for not inviting me, but she needed time away and she would make up for it next weekend. I said OK, but thinking in my mind let's just see how this plays out. I told her I may go out with one of my lesbian friends who had texted me on the drive home to see if we wanted to get together with some friends inviting both of us if we didn't have plans already. (We are good friends and we've been there for each other over relationship issues just as friends of course. She's had her share of bad relationships in the last year since she broke up with her ex-girlfriend from a 7 year relationship. She also knows everything about our relationship some of it being told by my wife.) My wife said to go out and have fun and tell everyone she said hello. (Like she wasn't doing anything wrong.)

My wife left, kissing me on the cheek but purposefully avoiding kissing me on the lips on the way out. (She's gone back and forth on this action for several months.) I texted my friend back that it would be just me and later she came by and picked me up with one of her friends (she was in the area) and we met for dinner with another friend. The four of us had a great dinner and of course I was asked about my wife and I told them what happened and they were upset for me. Afterwards we talked about a lot of other subjects and her friend Liz asked a lot of questions about my transitioning. She is divorced and never been with a woman and was in love with my lesbian friend's personal trainer (that is also a lesbian but not interested in Liz.) Anyway, afterwards she wanted to go dancing and she had always wanted to go to lesbian bar that has dancing. So my friend and I knew exactly were to take her in Manhattan (10 minutes away) and so we went. We ended up having a great time talking and dancing and Liz had a blast. I had been there before and have been accepted well. She didn't meet up with anyone, but did have some women interested in her. I was also approached and that boosted my ego . It was fun seeing Liz having such a good time. So the evening ended on a good note. Afterwards we took her home and then my friend took me home and we talked a little about my relationship with my wife trying to help. Which she did emotionally help me deal with things. We both came to the conclusion that my wife doesn't know what she wants. I was telling her about how my wife keeps saying she needs a man to be happy, yet she had an OKCupid account listing herself as bi, but only answering messages from other women. When I point this out to my wife, she claims that she doesn't want a relationship with a man because it would hurt me more than with a woman. Despite telling her that it would not, she insists that it would. I have told her that she needs to figure this out and she feels that if she did have a sexual non D/S relationship with a woman she would know for sure. My friend and I also discussed how she keeps flip-flopping all the time, but this has been going on for almost a year, way before I came out as transgender in October.

On the way home, my wife did call me (it was about 3am) and she had just got back home. In the past she would text me when leaving, but no this time. I told her I was on the way home and would be there soon. After I got home, my wife was friendly I told her about  Liz and where we went (which she had no issues with it) and she told me a little about her evening and we were both very tired and fell asleep. The next morning (today) she was still friendly and says she loves me but hasn't given me any affection. Unfortunately she got another migraine after we went out for a eyebrow waxing appointment and lunch. I just just don't know what to think anymore about her. She says she wants things to work out and I want to give her space, but sometimes I feel like a convenience to her and taken for granted. I've been patient about this, but I don't know how much more I can take of this. Should I try longer or start putting my foot down more about things.

[LivingTheDream]

Ok, first off let me say that I'm not married and I've never even been in a serious relationship even, but I'll try and help.

If I was married, or in any kind of intimate relationship with someone, I couldn't imagine not spending Valentine's day without them. I know its just a Hallmark holiday, but I'm a hopeless romantic, so I just couldn't not want to spend that day with my SO. It is also your anniversary, so even if she's not big on Valentine's day, I just cannot believe that she would rather spend time with her friends than with you! That's just unthinkable to me. Some parts of your background makes me think that that she sees you more as a friend than as a SO.

Since you've started transitioning, I imagine you've been meeting with a therapist, but has she? As you said, she doesn't seem to know who/what she is or what she wants, so just for that reason alone, she should prolly look for one, to help figure things out. Since she is unable or unwilling to give you a straight answer it seems, I wonder if talking about it with someone else might help her there, help her figure that out as well, in case she doesn't know; so I would definitely recommend you suggesting her to start looking for one.

Since, as I stated before, I am a hopeless romantic, I would definitely keep trying to make things work between you two, love is definitely worth fighting for, but it seems this has been going on for awhile now, so Idk. I'm not a patient person at all, and I would hate to be wondering wtf's going on because it would just eat at me, consume me, and drive me freaking insane, so if this has been going on for quite a while, I would eventually put my put down and try to get answers.

Really hope this helps and sorry that you're going through this.

-Kelly

[Ms Grace]

Maybe some couples counselling might help? Sounds like things might be a bit strained between you both, she has things she wants to say and can't/won't say, likewise for you. Maybe a chat with a therapist for the two you can sort it?

[Sydney_NYC]

Thank you for your input.

We have been to couples therapy (it helped us in the past on other issues, especially her trust issues she's had in the past.) The last time we went to couples therapy a few months ago, during the session she was fine and felt better. 30 minutes after the session on the way home, she basically admitted to lying about being OK with everything. I let her vent and let things out. No sense of letting them stay bottled up inside. Since then, one day she will say she doesn't trust me because I should have known and told her I was transgender before we married 16 years ago. I point out that it's no different than when she came out as bisexual 5 years ago to me and the same therapist. Another day she will tell me she's happy with me. It has been like a yo-yo.

However as of Sunday evening things have changed for the better (eventually). On Sunday there was a transgender group meeting that I wanted to attend. She encouraged me to go weeks ago and she even wanted to come along, but I explained to her that this is NOT for partners. (There is another one that is that meets in Manhattan on a different night.) She chose to pick a fight with me as I'm getting ready to go causing me to be late. (She's done this in the past when I need to go somewhere without her.) When she started up, I stopped her and told her that I'm interested in hearing what you she has to say, but I have an important meeting I've missed the last 2 months and I really need to go. When I return, I would be happy to discuss that further. She kept going on about how I was unfair and destroyed our marriage by transitioning and I was only staying with her for connivence. I said a few things that made her realize the she is the one staying because it's convenient, not I. I think pointing out to her that I'm the one that is holding things together more so than her and that someone who blows off their spouse's anniversary and Valentines Day plans is the person that is staying for convenience. I'm the person that is trying to work things through and she puts separation between us and complains that we are not close anymore. I then told her that if she keeps this behavior up, my patience will end and I will leave.

I told her I had to go and she complained that I was leaving without it being resolve. I reminded her that I warned her to wait till I get back and she would just have to think about things while I was gone. (She's real big on not leaving each other's site or going to bed angry.) For the first time it finally donned on her that I was correct and that she needs to get some perspective. I went to the meeting (about a 45 min drive away) and I came back home about 3 1/2 hours later. During the meeting she had texted me a picture she drew for Anniversary/Valentines Day with an apology on her being so horrible to me. When I came home it was like a light bulb had gone off in her head in that she realized that she was about to loose me. We talked and discussed things and she  admitted that I was correct and she questioned why I wanted to stay with her. I told her I know it's not easy dealing with my transitioning and she is having to deal with it. However, that is no excuse to treat me horrible and I'm willing to forgive now that she realizes what she did was wrong. Since then things have been better, she has not mistreated me and she sees the little things i do for her everyday realizing that the actions I take are not of someone that is in a relationship just as a convenience. Only time will tell of this is beginning of the positive change for the future or if she is getting my hopes up for nothing.

[kathyk]

I don't mean to discourage you, but it's important to be mindful of how your wife views your marriage, and prepare for what may lay ahead.  Maybe it's me recovering from having to walk out on my wife last month, or maybe I've just died a little from everything I've lost.  But I don't see much success in transgender marriages surviving. 

I was one of three married women left in both of my therapy groups in January (about 30 individuals).  Although there is one engaged trans man and one married trans man left in one of the groups.  But it doesn't show a great record for survival of our unions.  Plus, from everything that's been discussed here on Susan's over the last two years it seems the great majority of our marriages ultimately fail.  And even if our wives offer unlimited support, they most often just can't stay when we begin transition.  Or as in my case, I couldn't stay.

JoAnn and I denied the fact that we would ever break up, and I worked so hard to be pleasing at every turn.  I buried my disphoria under untold hours of extra work on my daily job, and began many new home projects that on the surface made me a good husband.  This kept our marriage together for a little more than 20 years after I came out, but those years were pretty much void of love, and we both tried to ignore the possibility that I'd one day begin transition.  And in the end we both wish we had separated 20 years ago. 

It's important to understand how your wife views your marriage, and how she perceives what people think of her.  In order to spare your feelings she may not tell you everything, and she's most likely trying to work through her own fear.  The only way to get all this out is to simply talk to each other, and to open up in an honest and non-confrontational way.  You may want to visit a couples counselor, or maybe your gender therapist is willing to help.  But you need to start talking now, and doing so without anger, and without fear of where it may lead your marriage.

I've had wonderful conversations with one woman who has fully transitioned and remained married.  About 10 years ago she also walked out on her wife for two years to go through HRT, and eventual SRS.  They reconciled their lives, and are now very happy in a platonic and loving relationship.  Hopefully your wife will also be able to accept what's happening, and your marriage can stay strong and full of love. 

I wish you well and hope for your happiness together. 

Katherine

[Eva Marie]

It's important to understand how your wife views your marriage, and how she perceives what people think of her.

Kathy makes a great point here. In my case my wife was consumed by her thoughts and fears of what people might say and think about her being in a lesbian marriage, and those thoughts and fears trumped the many, many prior years that we had been in a committed relationship together. I was looking in my journal yesterday and it was only 110 days from the time I accepted fully that I am transsexual (and told my wife so) until she drove away with her stuff loaded in the car. Before that I knew that we were having issues but it seemed that maybe we could reach some kind of understanding and stay together; we were still talking and the night before she left we went out to dinner together. But she still left.

I hope that things work out for the two of you, but also know that things can suddenly and unexpectedly head south.

[kathyk]

... I was looking in my journal yesterday and it was only 110 days from the time I accepted fully that I am transsexual (and told my wife so) until she drove away with her stuff loaded in the car. Before that I knew that we were having issues but it seemed that maybe we could reach some kind of understanding and stay together; we were still talking and the night before she left we went out to dinner together. But she still left.  ...

Hugs for you Eva.  I keep thinking what I could have done differently, and it makes me feel stupid to second guess it all.  What choice did we have?
K

[Eva Marie]

Hugs for you Eva.  I keep thinking what I could have done differently, and it makes me feel stupid to second guess it all.  What choice did we have?
K

In my case it was a stark choice between finishing the job of drinking myself to death or living as a female. I chose to live, knowing what the ramifications of that decision were probably going to be.

You keep going over and over it in your mind, looking at the choices you made, and second guessing them. If I had only done this or said that.......

But some things just aren't meant to be Kathy, and at some point we have to realize that we are good people, we deserve to live a happy life, and it's time to let go and move forward in life. My wife made her decision to live without me, and I've made mine to live and to move forward with what I need to do to make me happy and healthy once again.

Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to because we are dealing with other people's feelings, and we cannot control those.

We never had control of this in the first place, and it makes no sense to keep torturing ourselves over it and the decisions we've made that led us to where we are in life. We learn from it and keep moving forward. That's life.

[kathyk]

In my case it was a stark choice between finishing the job of drinking myself to death or living as a female. I chose to live, knowing what the ramifications of that decision were probably going to be.

You keep going over and over it in your mind, looking at the choices you made, and second guessing them. If I had only done this or said that.......

But some things just aren't meant to be Kathy, and at some point we have to realize that we are good people, we deserve to live a happy life, and it's time to let go and move forward in life. My wife made her decision to live without me, and I've made mine to live and to move forward with what I need to do to make me happy and healthy once again.

Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to because we are dealing with other people's feelings, and we cannot control those.

We never had control of this in the first place, and it makes no sense to keep torturing ourselves over it and the decisions we've made that led us to where we are in life. We learn from it and keep moving forward. That's life.

Before deciding to transition I once gathered up all the drugs I had and set them on my computer desk.  I decided to face my troubles instead.  And the night I knew I was going to go through with transition I sat up in bed crying.  I knew that night I would loose everything else in my life, I hoped I was wrong but it no longer mattered.  So I'm here today.  Happy as I grow into the woman I've always  wanted to be. 

And when can we see you with a smile in that Profile Pic.   

[Eva Marie]

And when can we see you with a smile in that Profile Pic.   

I went thru something similar when I finally made my decision to quit drinking and hiding and face who I am so I feel for what you went through. It is a very hard thing to have the courage to face that Kathy.

I just cannot get a good selfie picture, and I have tried and tried. When I come out in a few months I am considering hiring a professional photographer to make some nice portraits of me to attach to my coming out letter. I do actually smile

[Alaia]

And the night I knew I was going to go through with transition I sat up in bed crying.  I knew that night I would loose everything else in my life, I hoped I was wrong but it no longer mattered.

Huh, it's interesting how similar some of our experiences are. I too sat in bed crying the night I knew. I'd discovered I was truly happy being the girl I'd locked inside for so long and knew there was no going back. I cried for hours that night. So many tears of happiness in finding myself mixed with tears of sadness over what would be lost.


To the OP, my heart goes out to you. My wife and I weren't on the best of terms with each other over Valentines either. She's been fighting me every step of the way on my road to transition. About a week prior to Valentines I told her that I'd scheduled an appointment with an endo for HRT. She got angry and started yelling and then blaming and shaming me for ruining everything. Well... suffice to say that convo didn't go well at all and we were cold towards each other all throughout the week. But on Valentines I still bought her flowers and the ferrero rocher chocolates she likes. She said she was surprised I got her anything but I told her that I still love her and that isn't going to change.


You situation astounds me though. That she would go to her friends for dinner, on Valentines and your anniversary of all days, and then have the audacity to tell you that you were invited but she didn't want you to come... I'm sorry hon, that just sounds like it was incredibly painful and it probably cut very deep. I think transgender issues aside you and your wife have some serious things to talk about as your marriage sounds strained regardless.

[Sydney_NYC]

Thank you all for your input. A side note: I've cried myself to sleep when coming to terms about myself needing to become a women. I've always had an aversion to drugs and alcohol, but did use work and neglected parts of my life, gained weight (I suppose food could have been my drug.) Fortunately I've lost most of that weight prior to HRT.

She has apologized profusely about blowing off Valentines/Anniversary. We've talked more and she wants to be more intimate with me now. A good sign. However an unusual trigger has developed and hopefully it's temporary. She says that sometimes when she sees me smile a certain way, I remind her of her aunt (who she loved and passed away 5 years ago.) This is preventing her from being intimate and freaks her out. She now gives me a key word when this happens and it's about 6 or 7 times a day. I'm hoping that as my face continues to change on HRT that my face will change enough for this not to happen. I'm also hoping it's not an excuse and I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt.

In my transgender support group of about 15 people, there were 6 who were married when they transitioned and only one stayed married and all but one of the remaining stay close friends with their former spouses.

[Eva Marie]

I've cried myself to sleep when coming to terms about myself needing to become a women. I've always had an aversion to drugs and alcohol, but did use work and neglected parts of my life, gained weight (I suppose food could have been my drug.) Fortunately I've lost most of that weight prior to HRT.

She has apologized profusely about blowing off Valentines/Anniversary. We've talked more and she wants to be more intimate with me now. A good sign. However an unusual trigger has developed and hopefully it's temporary. She says that sometimes when she sees me smile a certain way, I remind her of her aunt (who she loved and passed away 5 years ago.) This is preventing her from being intimate and freaks her out. She now gives me a key word when this happens and it's about 6 or 7 times a day. I'm hoping that as my face continues to change on HRT that my face will change enough for this not to happen. I'm also hoping it's not an excuse and I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt.

In my transgender support group of about 15 people, there were 6 who were married when they transitioned and only one stayed married and all but one of the remaining stay close friends with their former spouses.

Sydney-

I'm sorry for derailing your thread above.

I'm also sorry that you and your wife are suffering through this - it is a very hard thing to deal with. I'm not quite sure that I've fully dealt with it yet in my mind.

It sounds like you have made some progress so I would say that hope is still alive for you. Some wives are enlightened and some marriages do survive and maybe yours is one of them. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

My soon to be ex-wife and I seem headed for the "friends" category now, which is at least something.

[Sydney_NYC]

I'm happy to report that things are changing for the better between us. Here is a separate post about it:

Wife Pleasantly Surprised Me with This Facebook Post