Sneakily regarded as female

[Mr.X]

I guess this half a rant post. Not sure, though.

As I've been progressing with my transition I've been very happy. The T has been doing mostly what it should be doing. I got facial hair, a lower voice and the likes. Apart from some bad acne and some fat redistribution that has yet to start, I really am happy.

As I've been progressing, my family and friends have progressed too. The right pronouns are used more and more often, and so is my chosen male name. I'm in the progress of having it changed legally. Surgeries are due sometime later this year. I'm a happy bugger. I thought people were seeing me as male now.

But as I was joking around with one of my brothers, he made me realize that the cloud I'm on is a little too pink. I was insulting him in a joking way, as brothers do. And he jokingly said, I should punch you for that, but it would still feel like I'm punching a girl, so I won't. I would have punched my other brothers, but not you.

Bam! That one felt like a blow to my imaginable cojones. So, after all the support that has been given to me, right pronouns and all that, I am still not fully regarded as male? What the F-? Maybe I am trying to move to fast. I do realize that it takes time to adjust for family and friends. But what if even the most supportive people still just regard me as a girl who just changed a little? That thought is utterly depressing and knocked me right off my pink cloud.

I guess this is why I prefer stealth so much. New people I meet get to know me as who I really am. Just a regular Joe. No girly past. Just me, a guy.

Anyone who's had something similar? Did family or friends seem supportive, but deep down you found they still regarded you as female? And if so, did that change over time?

[Edge]

Not so much with family members since I don't speak to them, but I get it with friends and acquaintances.
One guy claimed to be completely supportive of trans people and then one day got mad and claimed that trans men weren't men.
One of my friends continuously calls me "dude" because, as he told me, it helps him remember that I'm a guy, but asked me how I could know what being a guy is like since I'm not one. (Just to clarify, I am a guy, but he told me I wasn't.)
Both these people are ones that met me as a guy. Neither have gotten better.

[Adam (birkin)]

This sort of thing is a large part of the reason why I avoid being "out." People claim they get it, but most people don't and don't see us as "real men", even though we are - it sucks when it comes from family thoughcause it's not so easy to cut them out.

[stephaniec]

the world still has a long way to go to be the world it could be.

[Arch]

A few years ago, a good friend told me that I "looked like a real guy." I know what he meant, and he is an ally, but it hurt nonetheless. Frankly, it still bothers me when I think about it every now and again. It's not that I haven't forgiven him, and it's not that I dwell on it. But when I do remember it, it simply reminds me that even the most trans-supportive people might label us or even think of us as "not quite."

All I can say is what I've been told over and over. Give your brother time. If you are early in transition, he still has fresh memories of your earlier life. A few years from now, not so much. I know that family is often different, but I sometimes mention something trans-related to people "in the know" and wind up confusing them because they have literally forgotten that I am trans. I started T five years ago (just had a tranniversary!) and have been "passing" consistently for less than that. My former life is already but a shadow to a lot of these people.

[Rossiter]

It takes people time to get used to it...I think if one of my siblings transitioned it would take a few years of them being full-time before I completely changed how I thought of their gender. And I'm trans. It sounds like you haven't been on t for very long and your family sounds supportive, so just give it time. I think even the most supportive people in the world are going to have trouble with it at first, even if they claim otherwise.

[jussmoi4nao]

That sucks. I know what you mean. I thought me and my family were coming a long way until me and my brother got in an argument and he slapped me right across the face. Which is not cool regardless considering he's a big, 200 lb, bearded dude and I'm 135 lbs with a very small frame.

Im not sure if it was cuz i was born male or cuz hes a douche but w/e. I was really upset and he felt bad but still. My mom got mad on him. She basically told him that I was basically female regardless of how I was born and he should be more respectful. My moms really come a long way..she's really traditional and holds me to her standards for her daughters...which is a two edged swordbut yeah haha.

[Kreuzfidel]

X, I'm sorry to hear about that.  I know what it feels like to get knocked off your feel-good cloud with something like that.

I think that it really comes down to the fact that it's hard to stop wondering what people "really think" we are, even those who support us outwardly.  When they let things like this slip out, it further cements that belief that they "really see us a girls", no matter how male we look or act.

But the thing is that, as much as we would love for our families, friends, etc. to be wholly supportive and think of us as just another guy, we can't control that.  You cannot control what others believe and think, so instead of focusing so much on what they might be secretly thinking - try to to focus on what they are doing right.  Your family sounds quite supportive, and it's not an easy thing for everyone you knew as a "girl" to suddenly shift their entire lifetime of knowing you in one way on its head and try to essentially forget that - and react to you in a completely new way to them.

They sound like they're trying.  You may find it takes longer for some than others.  Just be patient, and don't try to control things that you simply can't.  Additionally, if what someone says like this really hurts you - be honest with them.  Maybe it will force them to introspect and examine their own motivations behind why they feel the way they do.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

This sort of thing is a large part of the reason why I avoid being "out." People claim they get it, but most people don't and don't see us as "real men", even though we are - it sucks when it comes from family thoughcause it's not so easy to cut them out.

Even though I am on the opposite end of the gender spectrum, I agree with you. It DOES change things once you out yourself. I've seen it far too many times. I would only out myself in situations when I am dealing with doctors, things like than that. Other than that?

Forget it.

It's just not worth it.

[Calder Smith]

I'm sorry to hear that, Mr. X. I'm still regarded as a female to everyone even the ones I came out to. I still get called by my birth name Cynthia or my nickname Cindee and treated like a girl. It's a bad feeling.

By the way, I seen your picture on one of the threads here and you look incredibly handsome. I wished I looked half as good as you.

[Ayden]

Remember that if your family is and has been supportive, it probably wasn't meant in a hurtful way. My brothers call me "bro" but I've been asked for help with girlfriend problems because "you are still kind of a girl and you know about this stuff". They are supportive but as with everything it takes time.

[Ms Grace]

Just a thought, and it might not have been what your brother intended - but when a lot of guys "muck around" with each other they do (unfortunately) resort to 'feminising' the person they're mucking with, dissing them and intimating they're 'a girl' (or worse) as a means to alpha dogging the other person. So it might have been your brother was in fact treating you like one of the guys, just not in a very thoughtful way. Of course it might not have been that all. In any matter, sorry to hear it happened, chances are it just slipped out accidentally but still...

[Natkat]

yes my famely was like that for a long time before they came to a point where I started to consider it real acceptence.
-
something who suprized me more is some of my trans friends who got really ignorant friends.
I once talked with a girl who happent to be friend with one of my Mtf friend. She said "oh so you are trans like___ (my friend) and I simple said yes as she hugged me and said she would always consider me a girl like she consider my mtf friend to still be a boy..

it's not my friend but seriously WTF?

[petunia]

I know that people that know I'm trans still regard me as not female(I'm mtf). Its pretty easy to tell the difference as I am around both those who do know and those who don't know enough everyday to notice the difference in interaction between them, me and other women. Its why I don't care to share much of anything with most people and why I don't get very close to people.

[GnomeKid]

Hmm its odd I kind of feel the opposite - that people don't really know the real me if they don't know I'm trans.  Maybe I prefer fitting in better with my queers though...

I think that his comment was not intended to be hurtful, but rather the side-effect of not really understanding the total implications of one's words.  Such incidents often occur to minorities of all sorts.  I've had some people (literally gender studies majors and trans activists [some more active in the trans-activism scene even than myself]) make offhanded comments that have stuck with me when I know for a fact they were not intending in any way to be offensive.   

I'm sure your brother hasn't had the gender studies background many of these people have, and that his comment was not intended o be offensive.  I'm also sure that after surgery and hormones you will be receiving the same punch in the arm as your other brothers would have.  If it makes you feel any better (which it may not) if your brother was a 20 year old (post-puberty) and you were a 12 year old (pre-puberty) he may not have socked one to you either. 

Most people I meet who learn I'm trans are utterly shocked, but I find we always end up closer than those I meet who never know.  Stealth certainly is right for some people, but I wouldn't assume that anyone who learns you are trans will see you as feminine or female.

I also think I have a somewhat skewed perspective because somehow I've spent most of my life surrounded by queers.  Male and female dictated almost nothing throughout a lot of my life. 

[overdrive]

I don't believe its a lack of support as much as being uneducated in many cases. I remember years ago before I realized I was trans, I hadn't ever met a trans person or known of the word. My cousin did drag shows and I went to one of hers, afterward we went out to eat with a big group of people. If I could tell the person was FAAB I was referring to them as "she" while MAAB as "he". I didn't realize my mistake or that I was offending anyone, I just had no idea about pronouns or the trans and cross dresser community at the time. I talked to my cousin afterward and she was telling me about how everyone that we went out to eat with was either trans or cross dresser. I remember trying to correct her about one girl that was smokin hot and she told me that girl was MTF and I was in shock because I assumed in my ignorance at the time that I would always be able to spot a trans person a mile away.

So anyways what I'm trying to say is that sometimes it comes down to just ignorance. People not realizing the correct pronouns or how it really affects you using the wrong ones. Family or friends that have known you pre-transition may feel more comfortable using the wrong pronouns because thats what they used for many years. They may not realize that using the wrong ones is so damaging to us.