Legally, Trans or male/female

[Sheila]

There was another post that got my thoughts a going. Here in Oregon we have just received some rights for Gender Identity/Expression. What my thought was, I have transitioned and know that I'm female, have always known that I'm female, but legally am I still a transexual or am I legally female? Now, I know that I have all the documentation for being female, but if an issue comes up would I be classified under Gender or would it be Gender Identity/Expression?
Sheila

[Lori]

That has been my problem with ENDA for so long. If we were declared legal females we would already have a ton of rights protecting us just like any woman does. Now, TS/TG are in a seperate class and I dont want to be there. I just want to be a woman, nothing more, nothing less and have the same rights all women have. Enda would just make what states like Oregon has done a federal thing for everybody to follow. But on the other hand, we still need enda because of transtition leaves many at awkward looking stages and here recently several bull dykes have had issues with how they looked.

I would think that if you passed and were accepted as a woman then having to use those types of laws would never come to pass. Those that look different, cannot pass, or express gender in "uncommon" ways are the ones that would really need that type of protection. Legally I'd say whatever your state says you are, then that is what you are. If you have an F on your DL# SS card and other official documents, then you are Female...LEGALLY.

I'd say you pass Shiela and I doubt you would have to worry about this. Others may need to fall back on it though.

[Sheila]

Thank you, Lori for the compliments. I want ENDA to pass with GID included into it. I wasn't worried about anything in particular, but was just wondering if, by law, we are still considered TS.  I don't think anything will come from it or anyone will have any problems once they have transitioned and have all the needed ID. I guess there would be the problem of being FtoM. Maybe I'm just over thinking this as I am really excited that Oregon has passed a law for us. We have rights and of course I think that I have always had my rights, being a woman. Yes, no more, no less. It feels good.
Sheila

[tinkerbell]

Here in California, a native Californian is issued a new birth certificate after SRS and has the same legal rights as any other man or woman born as such.  There is still some controversy, however, in regards to driver's licenses and ID cards.  As far as I'm concerned, gender markers on these documents don't legalize your target gender; hence, if a person has an F on their DL/ID card but has not yet had SRS, that person will be treated as their birth gender if a legal issue comes up.

I'm sure that as the glorious Real ID Act laws are implemented, more problems will arise for pre-ops unless someone does something...

tink

[Sheila]

Hi Tink,
  I'm a native Californian also, third generation, but live in Oregon now. How is a person to know if you have had GRS/SRS if you don't say so or they are not strip searching you?
  I know that when you do alter your ID, etc. you are who you reflect on those documents. What I'm talking about is, Are you a transexual or are you the gender that you know you are? If you were in a court of law and it came down to using your rights as in Gender (Male or Female) or would you have to use your rights as a Transexual (Gender Identity/Expression)? I feel that since I have already transitioned I'm a female, no matter what my genitals look like.
Sheila

[tinkerbell]

Hi Sheila:

Hmmmm...this is what I was talking about on another thread.  It would seem that this entire issue revolves around SRS.  Now, if you are in a court of law, oh you'd better believe that they will find out that you are TS; all they will have to do is to access your SSN and voila.  Even if you're post-op and your SSA records have been changed to reflect your target gender and new name, the old information is never erased, so if a person is still pre-op, they will be treated as their birth sex regardless of what it says on their DL or ID card.

According to California law...

What makes your gender legal?

No one knows for sure. California allows you to change the gender on your California birth
certificate. We believe that this order is legal recognition of your change of gender. However, as
far as we know, this theory has not been tested in court. The reason you might want to try to
"legalize" your gender is that some laws (marriage and child custody, mostly) might require you
to be a certain gender in order to utilize them.
The process for getting your California birth certificate changed is similar to the one used to get
a name change. The primary difference is that you'll need a letter from your health care provider
declaring that you have undergone "surgical treatment for the purpose of altering [your] sexual
characteristics to those of the opposite sex." [California Health and Safety Code 103425.]
What "surgical treatment" means is unclear. In most cases, a letter from your physician or
surgeon documenting that you have undergone "surgery that changes sex characteristics" is
sufficient. This is true regardless of what kind of surgery you have had. However, a judge is
allowed to ask you specific questions about your treatment and can deny your request if your
treatment does not include genital surgery. From our experience, however, denial on this ground
is rare. It is more probable that the judge will grant your request and ask the state to issue you a
new birth certificate.
(Remember that this is only true if you have a California birth certificate. If you have a birth
certificate from another state, you will need to ask the court to exercise a power called "equitable
jurisdiction." If you have questions about your specific situation, call us.)
If you were granted a court ordered name change in the past, but did not apply for a gender
change at that time, you might be able to do so now with a supplemental petition. If you are still
living in the same county that issued your court ordered name change, you should file the
appropriate paperwork under your old name change case number and ask that this petition be
recognized as supplemental to that court proceeding. For some reason, as judges have become
more familiar with change of gender petitions, they have allowed these kinds of supplemental
petitions less frequently. If the judge denies your request, you will need to file a new case with
the appropriate paperwork and, if you don't qualify for a fee waiver, pay the court fees.

From this link:  Transgender Law Center

I am not sure what the deal is in other states, so yeah.....


tink

[melissa90299]

Hi Tink,
  I'm a native Californian also, third generation, but live in Oregon now. How is a person to know if you have had GRS/SRS if you don't say so or they are not strip searching you?
  I know that when you do alter your ID, etc. you are who you reflect on those documents. What I'm talking about is, Are you a transexual or are you the gender that you know you are? If you were in a court of law and it came down to using your rights as in Gender (Male or Female) or would you have to use your rights as a Transexual (Gender Identity/Expression)? I feel that since I have already transitioned I'm a female, no matter what my genitals look like.
Sheila

If you are talking about a discrimination case, it would depend on the nature of the discrimination not the person's "legal" gender. Case in point, a woman transitions at work, has SRS, but still is known as trans, she gets harassed because she is trans and sues.The suit would be based on gender identity discrimination.