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It's International Women's Day! Share your feminist gripe

Started by Nero, March 08, 2014, 09:46:01 AM

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Nero

Okay, okay, not so positive a title. But this was inspired by Edge telling me it was International Women's Day in kindly response to one of my latest little feminist rants. Not that I'm reducing International Women's Day to a rant fest or anything. I'm sure there will be more positive threads.
And drawing attention to issues can't hurt.

So what gets you about the way women are treated, viewed, or presented? Or what gets you about living as a woman or having lived as a woman?



Note: there are definitely downsides to the way men are treated as well, maybe we'll discuss that next. For now, this is about women.



Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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alabamagirl

I could probably complain more about how men are treated, since I've lived as one far longer than I have as a woman, but...

As a woman, I constantly get harassed by weirdos on Skype now. Apparently having a somewhat sexy sounding username (wasn't my intention when I created it, but I can see how they must view it) and being listed as female makes guys think they can just randomly hit on me all the time. Ick.

By the way, ironically, if it wasn't for this thread and the one Calder made, I would not even know International Women's Day was a thing. So thanks, guys! Hehe~

Hooray! I'm a woman! It's definitely something to celebrate! :D
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FalseHybridPrincess

When is the international mens day?

No I dont really like this day...
It kinda disturbs me...

All I see on fb is women rule , you go girl , we can do anything etc...
I just wonder what would the reactions be if men did that...
and wth arent these things supposed to be settled by now...
meh I dont know

Yes I am a woman and its kinda nice to have such a day,,,
but for me the most importand thing is equality...in everything.

So it d be better to just say
"happy womens day , glad I am a girl " nothing more...

I dunno  my thoughts are kinda messed up...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
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Nero

Quote from: Pikachu on March 08, 2014, 10:00:05 AM

By the way, ironically, if it wasn't for this thread and the one Calder made, I would not even know International Women's Day was a thing. So thanks, guys! Hehe~

I didn't either!

But they have a day for just about everything now. This month, we also apparently have National Potato Chip Day, Chocolate Covered Raisin Day, and Something on a Stick Day  :laugh:
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Nero

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 08, 2014, 10:06:22 AM
When is the international mens day?

No I dont really like this day...
It kinda disturbs me...

All I see on fb is women rule , you go girl , we can do anything etc...
I just wonder what would the reactions be if men did that...
and wth arent these things supposed to be settled by now...
meh I dont know

That's why I posted the note. We'll do men's gripes next.

QuoteYes I am a woman and its kinda nice to have such a day,,,
but for me the most importand thing is equality...in everything.


That's the point!  :) Discussing things which are unfair or unequal.

It's ok if you lack direct experience with this, you can still point out something about the way women are treated, perceived, etc that gets you. If you want.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Heather

I honestly don't get this whole men's rights thing. To live as a woman in this world is a hard thing for the most part if you don't fit within society's narrow view of what beauty is your pretty much ignored. As for my complaints the biggest complaint is safety. Somebody who is living as male can not grasp what it's like to be stared at by men like an object. It's very intimidating and does make you feel vulnerable . I honestly have to be always wary when I'm out at night it shouldn't be that way but I am because I have to be. My other big gripe is somehow men act as though I know nothing and take me and my advice less seriously. Oh and one more gripe who in they're right mind designed women's clothes to basically be see through requiring several layers to look good but not too good because men will think your easy.   :-\
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Jessica Merriman

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 10:30:04 AM
Something on a Stick Day  :laugh:
OOOH! When is this one? >:-)

I love being a woman even with all the problems and issue's. I think I love it because I earned it the hard way through starting the transition process. I have no gripes at all because I knew going into this how life would change for the better and worse. I accept it totally! :)
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Ltl89

I think this holiday makes a lot of sense.  Look at the world.  Women are treated like animals and second class citizens all over.  Third world countries make up most of the worlds population and many of them have a long way to go on women's rights.  Even some first world countries and their societal norms put women in a lesser category.  At the end of the day, I'm a gender egalitarian and think everyone is equal and should be treated as such; however,  I don't think the idea of promoting female pride and the message of equality would diminish men's rights at all.   In fact, it may do a lot of good in parts of the world that are in need of hearing this message.

My personal gripe is that I notice some people at times act like men are better, smarter, and more talented or gifted than women.  They don't do this on a conscious or hostile level, but it's a subtle interpretation that you can pick up on.  Just listen to how some people talk about a particular woman and consider how they judge or rank their peers differently based on their gender.  It can be very subtle and innocent, but it does happen quite often.
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Edge

My main rant can basically be summed up as why is this still an issue? Seriously, how is this not common sense? The other day I read about someone complaining because the pilot of his plane was female. Why? It makes no sense. I read and see things about parts of the world where women are treated abhorrently. WHY?
When I was younger, girls used to sneer at other girls for being "girly." What the heck? Why is that an insult?
Before I came out as trans, I had problems keeping male friends because, way too often, it would turn out that they were just pretending to be my friend because they wanted to get in my pants. Needless to say, I have no sympathy for people who complain about the "friend zone."
I was once told by someone that men are supposed to do jobs that require logic and physical strength while women are supposed to take care of the children. He insulted men, women, and parents all in one go. Plus, his arms were so skinny, they probably would have snapped if he tried to pick up a child, but I digress.
I probably have more rants, but that's what comes to mind right now.
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Frank

I don't tend to get into this stuff, and I've been regarded publicly as male since being a kid, but even I get sideswiped by a barrage of people thinking "women can't do this job" and being very rude accordingly. Go ahead and think women can't do the job, but why do you have to be rude to your coworker and be condescending solely because she's a woman? I don't even bother reading comments about women in the military. I already know the solution to rapes in the military is "women don't belong in the military!"

It's like being stuck on a rock with boneheaded monkeys, except the monkeys are smarter.
-Frank
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Nero

One that really gets me is the focus on youth and beauty. And I was only ever a young, good looking woman before transition, so I'm not saying this out of personal bitterness or anything. But so much of a woman's perceived worth is based on her body and age - things out of her control. As a woman, if you haven't won the genetic lottery, you're never going to have much access to the only real power women have in this world. And even if you have, you only get that for a very short window. Your perceived value falls every year. Not to the people who love you, but to the world at large and potential partners.

Because this is all based on the physical, it's always a losing game. Whereas men's value is largely based on behavior, something that you can control. A man can always come back and improve himself and win the 'man's game' by proving himself, even if he's past 40. While even the winners of the 'woman's game' are sidelined at 30 (or even as early as 25). And it's not something women can beat even by playing the 'man's game'. Not just because of sexism, but because it's not perceived the same way. I mean, a woman can be wildly successful and that's awesome and valuable. But it's not received the same way. Not only socially, but sexually. Men don't want Hillary Clinton. Women want Bill. Hell, women want Donald Trump and Hugh Hefner. But nobody's lining up for Oprah and Martha Stewart. The Kim Kardashians of the world have more power. But not for long. She's getting on in (female) years, so I don't blame her for trying to milk it for all it's worth.

Not saying the world's standards for male success are a cakewalk either, but at least they're something largely based on behavior and actions. He can keep trying and his efforts don't depreciate. Women are mostly valued for a depreciating asset.

*Sure, it's not like this on paper, but it's like this in people's minds. Everyone probably agrees it shouldn't be. But it is. 'It' is largely over for a woman by 30, men get at least double that.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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mandonlym

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 01:45:56 PM
One that really gets me is the focus on youth and beauty. And I was only ever a young, good looking woman before transition, so I'm not saying this out of personal bitterness or anything. But so much of a woman's perceived worth is based on her body and age - things out of her control. As a woman, if you haven't won the genetic lottery, you're never going to have much access to the only real power women have in this world. And even if you have, you only get that for a very short window. Your perceived value falls every year. Not to the people who love you, but to the world at large and potential partners.

This, so this. Even from someone who got a relatively good number in the attractiveness lottery, it's so unmotivating sometimes that my accomplishments are not the main reason people are attracted to me. It's the blonde hair, the big lips, etc. The best I can do is find people who *like* that I'm accomplished in addition to finding me attractive. But it's so depressing to have professional ambition yet have this be seen as a deterrent rather than an asset!

That said, I do feel like fewer women now want to date men purely for their power or income. Physical attractiveness definitely comes into play more; it does with me. So maybe the world is becoming more equal. But at the end of the day, I do notice a lot of highly-accomplished though not standard-attractive women in their 30's who are single, while their male equivalents tend not to be.
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Ms Grace

The Australian Prime Minister, who when in opposition never spoke out (that I know of) against the relentless and vile sexist and misogynist attacks against our first female Prime Minister - even going so far as to think it was OK to attend a rally against her government's legislation and address a crowd in front of signs reading "Ditch the Witch" and "Bob Brown's Bitch" - has appointed himself as Minister for Women and has a cabinet with very few female ministers. That's my First World gripe.

My Third World gripe is that millions of women are still being treated as the property of men (either their fathers, husbands or other male relatives), that in some countries dogs and cows get treated with more respect than women do.  :(
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Jamie D

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Natalia

I am not very found of having a woman's day. It sounds like one day is for the women and the rest for the men.

But it is important when it remembers how women have suffered and how they are still treated like ->-bleeped-<- in some countries.

The other day I was reading that in an asiatic country (don't remember which) women are seem as impure when they are at their periods and they aren't allowed to sleep inside their homes every time they reach their periods (7-10 days each month). People believe that if a menstruated woman touches a tree, the tree will never more bear fruits. If they touch a man, the man will become ill.

This is R-E-V-O-L-T-I-N-G
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Nero

The way female children are raised to be objects. And also the discrepancy with the way smart girls are treated vs boys. As a 'smart' girl and early learner, I got the strong message that I was either innately good or bad at things. I was never encouraged by my teachers who seemed to view me with contempt. I was arguably the smartest kid in my class who knew all the answers yet I was never given any attention. I got really good grades and won awards, but that was in elementary school. Even so, the teachers looked down on me and I never received the guidance or encouragement the boys did. I got the strong message it was all for naught. It didn't matter. I was a girl. And then at 11, I got pretty and... learned where the real power was.

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Ltl89

Quote from: FA on March 08, 2014, 01:45:56 PM
One that really gets me is the focus on youth and beauty. And I was only ever a young, good looking woman before transition, so I'm not saying this out of personal bitterness or anything. But so much of a woman's perceived worth is based on her body and age - things out of her control. As a woman, if you haven't won the genetic lottery, you're never going to have much access to the only real power women have in this world. And even if you have, you only get that for a very short window. Your perceived value falls every year. Not to the people who love you, but to the world at large and potential partners.

Because this is all based on the physical, it's always a losing game. Whereas men's value is largely based on behavior, something that you can control. A man can always come back and improve himself and win the 'man's game' by proving himself, even if he's past 40. While even the winners of the 'woman's game' are sidelined at 30 (or even as early as 25). And it's not something women can beat even by playing the 'man's game'. Not just because of sexism, but because it's not perceived the same way. I mean, a woman can be wildly successful and that's awesome and valuable. But it's not received the same way. Not only socially, but sexually. Men don't want Hillary Clinton. Women want Bill. Hell, women want Donald Trump and Hugh Hefner. But nobody's lining up for Oprah and Martha Stewart. The Kim Kardashians of the world have more power. But not for long. She's getting on in (female) years, so I don't blame her for trying to milk it for all it's worth.

Not saying the world's standards for male success are a cakewalk either, but at least they're something largely based on behavior and actions. He can keep trying and his efforts don't depreciate. Women are mostly valued for a depreciating asset.

*Sure, it's not like this on paper, but it's like this in people's minds. Everyone probably agrees it shouldn't be. But it is. 'It' is largely over for a woman by 30, men get at least double that.

I got a little upset reading this, but there is no denying the fact that there is some truth in what you say.  In any case, I'm hoping to fight against those societal standards and live a successful life in spite of them.  I mean I'd be really sad to hear that potential partners will look at me as an old lady because I'm 25. After all, people are staying single and getting married at older ages nowadays and love knows no time limit.  And I'd like to believe there are many men out there that aren't purely about youth and age, but are looking for love and compatibility.  And who would want to marry such a shallow man that cares only about looks anyway?  I guess I would just hate to think the writing is on the wall for me because of my age.  All in all, I really don't have big dreams, but I would like to have a family of my own one day and hopefully have a somewhat successful career that will allow me to live okay.  And I'm hoping that my future grad school dreams will define my chances for a successful career rather than my looks or lack of youth.  Even if society has it's issues and there are problems we must overcome, I see my worth as much more than that and I'd like to believe others will to.  The same goes for any other woman.  I just don't want to see my life as female in such bleak terms and doubt any other woman sees it that way.

Still, even if I really dislike the societal norms in your post (not your views but the ones you are complaining about), I can't deny there is truth to it.  I see how women are expected to look a certain way and it drives me crazy.  I'd like to say I'm past those expectations myself, but I'm not.  I feel it.  I know what I should look like. I see my flaws and feel the need to correct all of them. And being 25 I'm on the cusp of going from younger to older woman. It's really painful, but it shouldn't be that way.  Woman of all ages can be beautiful and worthy of the admiration of partners.  They can also be equally successful to their male counter parts and have rewarding careers.  There may be bs and social stigma that women have to put up with, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it or allow it to define us.  I'm glad to be a girl and wouldn't trade it.  I'd trade all the male privilege in the world in order to be me.   

P.S. I realize you were simply addressing issues woman face not endorsing the views in your post.  It's just that I can't see my future is such bleak terms, so I just had to respond.  You know me and my mouth by now FA, lol. 
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Ms Grace

Women can still start relationships over the age of 25 you know!   :)

I had a great aunt in her sixties strike up quite a romantic relationship some years after her husband died with a guy in the same age bracket.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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greypeacock

I have noticed a pointed difference in how I was treated when perceived as female to now as male. Before transition, people tell you to smile, bug you at bus stops... give you 'you'd look prettier if you just...' advice. I felt blissfully invisible when I started passing as male. It left a bad taste in my mouth to watch the world warp around me and suddenly I wasn't an object to try to conquer. I've had men sidle up to me, say something incredibly rude and sexist, then try to elbow nudge me and say 'You know what I mean?' like I'm totally on board.

When sometimes it comes out I was DFAB, men often say 'that's cool. I won't treat you any different', then immediately proceed to treat me different because they see women as lesser beings.

I think trans folks get a ringside seat to the horrible patriarchal 'playground' we live within. We get to see both sides throughout our lives.
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Ms Grace

Quote from: greypeacock on March 08, 2014, 04:06:38 PM
I think trans folks get a ringside seat to the horrible patriarchal 'playground' we live within. We get to see both sides throughout our lives.

Yes indeed. And speaking of guys thinking you're on board because you're "one of the guys", I had one male friend (someone who presented as a bit of a SNAG) say to me many years ago "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed", I was stunned into silence. Some hours later when he was moaning about not being able to get a girlfriend I finally found my voice and let him have it. Gave him pause to think anyway. At least he never said that kind of crap around me ever again.

Quote from: Natalia on March 08, 2014, 03:43:13 PM
I am not very found of having a woman's day. It sounds like one day is for the women and the rest for the men.

This is true, and it seems to be the only day of the year the newspapers and media really get up in arms about domestic violence and the high number (as a percentage of the homicide rate) of women murdered by their "loved ones"...the rest of the year it's rarely mentioned (except of course when yet another woman is murdered by her husband, defacto, boyfriend, father, son)...
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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