Hate PM's at Susan's

[peky]

I was going to post this in what made me unhappy but then it would get buried and few would even notice it and since it has to do with all of us I decided to post it here. Over the last few weeks I've gotten PM's from people I know and generally like here who have been getting outrageously mean spirited hate notes from others who disagree with their political, religious, or their personal views on gender or sexuality. I encouraged them to report it to the administrator and they usually refused and took the high road and instead and have dropped their membership and left. I've been a member of Susan's off and on over the years ever since Susan created this website albeit under different names throughout my phases of transition, and I've never seen so much ugliness as exists here now. It's a real shame that this happens here and you can be assured that I will work to see you gone if you continue to act so childishly toward others.

Hummm....letters or messages of any kind, insulting or praising, should not be taking too personally...

Now, I have know a bully or two who "run-out-of-dodge" one to many good girls, and guess what... said bully just got his/her "can kick"... Like my Papi used to say... every dog has to eat his "S&%# sandwich someday.

I, in a heated moment, have had posted "hateful thing," and the Mods appropriately enough have given me a "do better talk." Now, being that I am very smart... I realized I have done wrong, so, I apologized to the offended parties, and moved on...

So, we all may need a bit of more tolerance and maturity, right?

[Nero]

Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

Well, as far as Jamie goes, she is technically banned for a month. However, there is a lot more to this and it doesn't have anything to do with any disagreements on the forum. I'm only even acknowledging the ban in public because she said it was okay to do so. Jamie is one of ours, one of our best. But like all of us, has her moments. Most of our long term members have been banned at one time or another. I have. I don't think Cindy will mind if I mention that she has. Jamie is going through a difficult time and needs her friends. Jamie is one of the most loved people here. She will be back, so please be here for her when she does. If you love Jamie, stick around and support her. She needs it.

I hate to be so candid, but I think I must. Jamie suffered some very severe blows during her time as mod. If you know Jamie, you know this is a very passionate individual. During Jamie's time as mod, they did a lot for our youth here. Jamie's main fault is getting too involved. Thinking of her own teenage and young adult children, Jamie did everything she could to reach out and mentor our youth here. Jamie is like a mother hen sheltering her young under her wings and angrily pecking at anyone that gets near. This is Jamie.

One of the young people Jamie tried so much to help became angry with her, threatened suicide and left the forum. Jamie was left scouring obituaries in the young person's city, looking for them. This took a toll on Jamie more than I can say. She sent me videos where she was just sobbing over this young person and the fear they took their life.

Eventually this young person came back to the forum. But the damage was done. Suicide is a big trigger for our Jamie. Our Jamie is in pain, has health problems, and needs us. Jamie is having problems and has become almost exasperating for me to deal with now. But Jamie has been a very good friend to me and I will never give up on her. Let's please all be there for her.

And please report any abusive pms to me. They are dealt with and if severe, the culprit loses their ability to pm. I will not have anyone abusing others by pm.

[Nicolette]

Auntie Shan please don't leave! More of us love you than don't here. Please reconsider this, please?
I love to read your post's and replies to others post's. If all of the great one's leave this will turn into the wild west and there will be no place for people hurting to turn to. Please stay!! 

These weren't Shantel's sentiments. She was quoting.

[Shantel]

I've been banned in the past back around 2005, having made a snarky remark about MtF's not having any mother instincts whatsoever there was a swarm of angry replies, and here's the teachable moment. If I hadn't reacted and allowed myself to be drawn into a completely insipid bitch-fest and took the liberty to insult everyone, all would have been fine in a day or two, but I succumbed to my instinct to put up a battle and all civility went out the window. Susan herself put her boot in my keister and it was well deserved. I hope we can all grow up and if we disagree with something, resist the temptation and just back away and visit a different thread for awhile and cool off. Count me with FA concerning our sister Jamie, she's a gem and I miss her wisdom and loving kindness here as well.

[930310]

I've been banned in the past back around 2005, having made a snarky remark about MtF's not having any mother instincts whatsoever there was a swarm of angry replies, and here's the teachable moment. If I hadn't reacted and allowed myself to be drawn into a completely insipid bitch-fest and took the liberty to insult everyone, all would have been fine in a day or two, but I succumbed to my instinct to put up a battle and all civility went out the window. Susan herself put her boot in my keister and it was well deserved. I hope we can all grow up and if we disagree with something, resist the temptation and just back away and visit a different thread for awhile and cool off. Count me with FA concerning our sister Jamie, she's a gem and I miss her wisdom and loving kindness here as well.

I do see your point in this and it is important for us to learn from our mistakes. But is this really the right way to learn from them?
I would absolutely encourage everyone that receives any kind of hatemail to contact the staff here at Susans.

[JordanBlue]

I do see your point in this and it is important for us to learn from our mistakes. But is this really the right way to learn from them?
I would absolutely encourage everyone that receives any kind of hatemail to contact the staff here at Susans.

Who gets to define what 'hate mail' really is?

[Colleen♡Callie]

Who gets to define what 'hate mail' really is?

I kinda think hate mail is self defining.   You can disagree respectfully, without tearing someone down or purposely attacking them or hurting them.  When you get hateful in your message, when you demean and attack and belittle and fill your message with spite, that's hate mail. 

[JordanBlue]

I kinda think hate mail is self defining.   You can disagree respectfully, without tearing someone down or purposely attacking them or hurting them.  When you get hateful in your message, when you demean and attack and belittle and fill your message with spite, that's hate mail.

I think it probably should be self defining, but here? I don't think so. 
People need to just accept the fact that that control the behavior of others.

[Colleen♡Callie]

It's not about controlling others and about showing respect and support on a support forum.

If you can't accept what the site is about, and behave accordingly, then disciplinary actions will be taken.  Those are the terms and rules you agreed to when you signed up here. 

[930310]

The Cambridge dictionary definition for hate mail is: "Unpleasant or cruel letters from someone who dislikes you". So that's what I go by.

[JordanBlue]

It's not about controlling others and about showing respect and support on a support forum.

If you can't accept what the site is about, and behave accordingly, then disciplinary actions will be taken.  Those are the terms and rules you agreed to when you signed up here.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but...different people have different definitions of what 'showing respect' means.  you'll never get people to universally agree on one definition. getting people to take responsibility for their own actions, especially the younger ones here?   good luck with that one.

[Adam (birkin)]

I've noticed that relations between trans people are getting a lot more heated and tense, not just here but on other sites. Now, I will admit, there are certain views on trans issues that actually make my blood boil (anyone who knows me will have an idea of what they are). But I don't go around and send hate mail to people. And I don't go around starting fights. Because the chance of me actually changing someone's mind is pretty small and all it does is increase problems.

[930310]

Getting people to take responsibility isn't easy and that's why there are rules on this forum. If you can't live by them, then you shouldn't be here. And the rules are mostly about common decency and something that most people already know before coming here.

[JordanBlue]

Getting people to take responsibility isn't easy and that's why there are rules on this forum. If you can't live by them, then you shouldn't be here. And the rules are mostly about common decency and something that most people already know before coming here.

You keep repeating yourself.  everyone here knows there is a TOS. 
Can't you see how effective it's been so far?

[Colleen♡Callie]

The Cambridge dictionary definition for hate mail is: "Unpleasant or cruel letters from someone who dislikes you". So that's what I go by.

A good definition.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but...different people have different definitions of what 'showing respect' means.  you'll never get people to universally agree on one definition. getting people to take responsibility for their own actions, especially the younger ones here?   good luck with that one.

That be why there are mods. 

[JordanBlue]

That be why there are mods.

Think about it.  If that was the answer, would we even be having this discussion in this thread?
No. 

[930310]

And why wouldn't we be having this discussion? This isn't an Orwellian forum where every single thing you do is monitored by others. Of course things that aren't supposed to happen will happen and that's why there are questions like this being asked.

[dalebert]

There's a lot of drama and whining on Susan's.  But you have that on almost every trans forum.  Someone saying 'I'm leaving and I'm not coming back' - that's drama.  The people who say that 'always' come back.

That seems true on any forum; not just trans ones. I think it's the nature of people online. "I'm taking my ball and going home!"

This thread is kind of timely for me. I recently got placed on ignore by two people in another forum (NOT Susan's). It all started with someone making statements that I thought were hurtful to men and disrespectful of women. I was quite offended and I said so. I have no doubt I could have been more tactful than I was but I'm not convinced more tact was necessarily called for. He was upset by some of the things I was saying, but the whole reason I said them was because he had already said things that upset me.

The whole thing just seemed chock full of hypocrisy. He was saying things like let's agree to disagree which was pretty much a thinly-veiled "let me preach sexist things from my soap box and just sit down and shut up about how you feel about that."

He was upset that I was calling him sexist and I was upset that he was being sexist. To be clear, I was addressing specific things he said. "Sexist" was his interpretation of my critique, but I'd say it wasn't a reach. That's how I feel. In the end, I was just trying to have a conversation about it. He ended up reporting me (resulted in the mods telling him he was advertising which wasn't allowed but they did nothing to me) and then ignoring me. Then someone else who took his side essentially called me a Nazi and put me on ignore as well.

If you bring up a controversial subject, it seems almost inevitable that it's going to get heated. People have strong feelings about some things and you can't really blame them for having strong words to express those feelings. I think it's as civil as it needs to be as long as it just involves communication and not violence or censorship.

However, that forum is more for debate whereas I see this forum as having a primary purpose of support first and foremost. I think that changes the dynamic of how the forum is moderated. I think people should be more tactful here than, for instance, on a forum with a purpose for discussing certain political subjects.

[JordanBlue]

And why wouldn't we be having this discussion? This isn't an Orwellian forum where every single thing you do is monitored by others. Of course things that aren't supposed to happen will happen and that's why there are questions like this being asked.

[930310]

Huh?