Another (Future) YESON Gal - Voice Feminization Surgery booked for 16th June

[Gigi_J]

Sounds really great Liv...u should be happy!! And it doesn't sound overly hoarse either...it's gonna get much better....I'm a little over 1 month and 2 weeks post-op now and I'd planned to get a recording up a week or so ago. I'll try and get one on tonight.

One of the things I can say is that...I'm happy my pitch is raising...and when I read the Rainbow Passage I can always get averages of around 200-210 hz effortlessly (read other girls always get nice high hz readings reading it too)...and when I mentally concentrate on keeping a nice high pitch, it's obviously effortless compared to how it was pre-op with very little sense of 'pulling it up' whatsoever. But....when I talk to some friends and especially my family...my voice can drop way down to around 150hz...still sounding feminine I think with the harsh masculine edge gone but still....to me this is disappointing and something I've been getting a little frustrated about.

I went into this surgery hoping for a quick fix in terms of just 'getting there' pitch wise - not a nice pitch when I focus on it. But then it's early days and I know some girls still have no pitch raise whatsoever after a couple of months post-op. And then there's the talk about having to 'train our brains' into using the higher pitches naturally. So maybe I'm not abnormal at all in that sense. Would you agree with any of the above? Are you finding yourself talking in lower pitches with people? Obviously not as low it could go preop...but say..in the 150hz range?

Good luck on your continued recovery anyway and I'll get either a vid or voice clip of my Rainbow passage reading up very soon!

Gx

[Livvykins]

Sounds really great Liv...u should be happy!! And it doesn't sound overly hoarse either...it's gonna get much better....I'm a little over 1 month and 2 weeks post-op now and I'd planned to get a recording up a week or so ago. I'll try and get one on tonight.

One of the things I can say is that...I'm happy my pitch is raising...and when I read the Rainbow Passage I can always get averages of around 200-210 hz effortlessly (read other girls always get nice high hz readings reading it too)...and when I mentally concentrate on keeping a nice high pitch, it's obviously effortless compared to how it was pre-op with very little sense of 'pulling it up' whatsoever. But....when I talk to some friends and especially my family...my voice can drop way down to around 150hz...still sounding feminine I think with the harsh masculine edge gone but still....to me this is disappointing and something I've been getting a little frustrated about.

I went into this surgery hoping for a quick fix in terms of just 'getting there' pitch wise - not a nice pitch when I focus on it. But then it's early days and I know some girls still have no pitch raise whatsoever after a couple of months post-op. And then there's the talk about having to 'train our brains' into using the higher pitches naturally. So maybe I'm not abnormal at all in that sense. Would you agree with any of the above? Are you finding yourself talking in lower pitches with people? Obviously not as low it could go preop...but say..in the 150hz range?

Good luck on your continued recovery anyway and I'll get either a vid or voice clip of my Rainbow passage reading up very soon!

Gx

Thanks Gigi, I guess I'm more encouraged than anything, my vocal chords definitely feel like they've been reset and that my natural speaking voice is now that much higher which I'm very pleased about, but I still think I've got a lot of practising to do before it sounds natural and female

I'm guessing you were given this graph as well?



Which shows that according to Yeson our pitch isn't really meant to rise until well into a year post op... I wonder if this graph is given out to manage expectations when it does take much longer to rise, or because that is actually the time it takes most people based on their experience.  I know a couple of girls that have been to Yeson... One of their voices is identical after a month post op, and the others was up maybe 40 hz.  So maybe the norm is a lot less pitch increase after a month than we've had? Dr Kim told me that I could expect a pitch increase after starting to do the exercises which isn't till two months... I guess it's really not an exact science

I think in general people tend to speak in a higher pitch when concentrating on reading... my wife's pitch for example was 238hz when reading rainbow passage and 199hz when just chatting. Mine seems to be around 210-220hz now (up from 143hz) when I'm reading in a relaxed manner and 200-210 when chatting. I did record rainbow passage yesterday whilst trying to raise my voice a little and it shot up to an average of 240hz... Probably a little high.  I'm trying to practise resonance without raising pitch, which I'm finding a little challenging. I

I would imagine despite everyone saying that it's not a quick fix, and it will require time and practise in order to achieve a great result, we all go into this op thinking it WILL be a quick fix... lol Me included! 

I can't wait to hear (or see) your 6 week post op recording!  I'm sure it's going to be beautiful!!

I sent my one to Jessie who said that the result was amazing so far, and asked if I'd mind her using it to make a before/after video... which I'm actually quite pleased about because I've lost the recording I did pre-op so have had nothing to compare too... I'll post the link on here when Jessie sends it to me

Liv x

[anjaq]

Hi

Interesting descriptin "the vocal chords have been reset" - what do you mean by that?
I think your voice is great anyways - but of course, if you think you can perfect it by more practice, thats good. I would not say you need a "lot of practising" though, but of course its a matter of ones own standards to aim for

Which shows that according to Yeson our pitch isn't really meant to rise until well into a year post op...

Thats odd - I was getting the impression here that for many the voice is higher at only 2 months post op. What would take a year to heal to get a igher pitch? Or is it mostly because it is a brain adjustment thing?
Interesting that in the graph, one starts out actually BELOW the "male F0" line - does he say the pitch actually goes down at first?

I think in general people tend to speak in a higher pitch when concentrating on reading...

Definitely - also I find that people enunciate words more, use  more melody and a different prosody when reading. Using more melody may also raise average pitch, which always also includes the high pitched sylabils

I'm trying to practise resonance without raising pitch, which I'm finding a little challenging.

Indeed - I try the same now because rasing pitch causes my voice to strain, so I try to just get my resonance right and female and not play too much with pitch at the same time, but it seems at times that if I get resonance really good, my pitch will automatically go up a bit. Not enough in my mind but I guess for some people this is why they dont want a surgery - resonance control is essential anyways and if pitch automatically  goes up with it - why should one force oneself to keep pitch low when doing resonance changes - if both go hand in hand and both are desired...

[Livvykins]

Hi

Interesting descriptin "the vocal chords have been reset" - what do you mean by that?
I think your voice is great anyways - but of course, if you think you can perfect it by more practice, thats good. I would not say you need a "lot of practising" though, but of course its a matter of ones own standards to aim for
Thats odd - I was getting the impression here that for many the voice is higher at only 2 months post op. What would take a year to heal to get a igher pitch? Or is it mostly because it is a brain adjustment thing?
Interesting that in the graph, one starts out actually BELOW the "male F0" line - does he say the pitch actually goes down at first?

Definitely - also I find that people enunciate words more, use  more melody and a different prosody when reading. Using more melody may also raise average pitch, which always also includes the high pitched sylabils
Indeed - I try the same now because rasing pitch causes my voice to strain, so I try to just get my resonance right and female and not play too much with pitch at the same time, but it seems at times that if I get resonance really good, my pitch will automatically go up a bit. Not enough in my mind but I guess for some people this is why they dont want a surgery - resonance control is essential anyways and if pitch automatically  goes up with it - why should one force oneself to keep pitch low when doing resonance changes - if both go hand in hand and both are desired...

Hey there,

I think what I was tying to say in a clumsy way, is that my base pitch when I open my mouth and talk naturally has got that much higher. And now when I try and raise my pitch it goes up from the base pitch.  Does that explain it any better?

Yeah, you see that confuses me too...  I think all of the actual healing is done by 2 months, since you're then allowed to sing and shout.  You're meant to start the vocal exercises at 2 months which is supposed to start the process of your pitch raising... So it's a bit confusing that it goes up straight away for so many.  I was also told that it takes longer for the pitch to go up if you have the Botox injection, as it completely relaxing the vocal chords. I guess some of it could be the brain adjustment... So basically I don't know lol It really does seem to be different for everyone, which is why I wonder if they give this out to manage expectation if it does take a long  time to go up.

I think one of the problems is that when I try and add resonance, I quite often sound like Barbie... I think getting resonance sounding natural could be more important than pitch.  One of my girl friends (who's actually a singer) has a lovely and very feminine voice. When I measured the pitch, it came out at 148hz, which is at the top of the male range but yet she sounds very much a girl... I think this surgery can make a huge difference, but I think getting resonance right is essential as well

Liv x

[MeganChristine]

Interesting, I hope the pitch start increasing when the Botox starts to wear off, preferably earlier )

My sister did note that my voice was kind of the same, but without the base

[northcountrymassage]

I know for me (2 weeks to talk again) that Dr. Kim said I would see most of my pitch increase somewhere between the two to four month mark and then a gradual increase after that. I had the Botox injections and right now if I talk at all it is very hoarse and weak, but definitely higher. He said with me that I would need professional voice lessons to teach my brain how to work with the new vocal folds and not use my old habits from 48 years. At around the four month mark I'm supposed to send them a sample of my voice and possibly start taking medication that somewhat does the same as the Botox to give me time to reprogram my brain. Most days I say nothing at all, but then curiosity gets the better of me and I say a few words. I started at 137hz and Dr. Kim figures I should get up to 211hz. :-)

[anjaq]

I think what I was tying to say in a clumsy way, is that my base pitch when I open my mouth and talk naturally has got that much higher. And now when I try and raise my pitch it goes up from the base pitch.  Does that explain it any better?

That sounds great. So your base pitch is higher and everything else follows from that? But for others this is only coming along with voice training after some months, it seems.

I think one of the problems is that when I try and add resonance, I quite often sound like Barbie... I think getting resonance sounding natural could be more important than pitch.  One of my girl friends (who's actually a singer) has a lovely and very feminine voice. When I measured the pitch, it came out at 148hz, which is at the top of the male range but yet she sounds very much a girl... I think this surgery can make a huge difference, but I think getting resonance right is essential as well

Oh geez - I would not want to sound squaky girly - I am almost 40 now, the times for teenage squeakiness are over for me. So you think adding female resonance post op will actually increase pitch even more and make it too high? I know that adding resonance to my natural pitch at 110 Hz will get me to 140-150 Hz just because of the resonance changes.
I would really think getting a feminine sounding low voice would almost be needed to also sound good at a higher pitch, but maybe that was a wrong assumption and I stressed myself too much in setting a barrier up that I told myself I will need to manage to sound totally female in a low pitch range before doing any VFS. On the other hand - if I could manage to get a 100% female voice at my 140 Hz, possibly I would be able to get used to it and be fine with that - I am not sure I can get there though.

[Gigi_J]

Hello guys,

Excuse the delay....I've been very tied up lately and rather than concentrate 100% on my voice with all the over-worrying I was doing I figured I'd ease off on my paranoias a little and let another week or so pass and get on with other things. One of those is a breast enlargement which I'm having on 24th of this month! Having managed with my natural A cups and a lot of padded bras and silicon enhancers for a few years, I decided to treat myself to a nice proportionate enlargement - it's been nice to have something else to think about rather just just my vooooooooooice!

Anyway,below is a link to a recording of the Rainbow passage I did around a week ago...so just over 6 weeks post-op. Although when I talk to family and friends I was pushing my hz range down as I explained in my last post, when I'm using my voice alone I was always talking higher .. from the 170hz range up (where it feels most natural now) and with almost zero effort (as I've explained before) I knock out rainbow readings at anywhere from 190 to 220hz. On this occasion it came out at around 205hz when measured with Praat. Feel free to let me know your thoughts. Was listening to my pre-op female voices and it's funny that I actually think they sounded quite good (lol) but my mom said she can defo hear the difference...mainly in volume...which I guess makes sense as putting a lot of volume into the higher pitches pre-op when having to tighten and lift in that way wasnt the easiest thing. I feel now.....with a little over a week until I reach my 2 month milestone, my volume has increased massively, even at the upper ranges ... although I do have to drop volume down a little when in the 200hz range and above to avoid the odd bit of cracking - but all in all I think it's good for this point in recovery as I understand it.

https://soundcloud.com/user819247001/6-weeks-post-op-rainbow-reading

I'll describe more in a future post but about 4 days ago something just 'clicked' in terms of what I was doing with my resonance - very hard to describe but it's felt like a massive hurdle that's been crossed and all of a sudden I don't find myself dropping down to lower pitch levels when talking to others half as much as I was - I seem to be constantly talking at no lower than 170 or 180hz and if I do, there's no slight harshness to the voice like there was when I felt I was pushing myself down a bit to more familiar old levels...I find it sounds incredibly female sounding even as low as 160hz so I've been very excited - I always thought I had my resonance down pretty well so I can't say for sure, just yet, whether this is just a case of resonance or whether something else that just 'feels different' about my voice now but it's very exciting.

One thing that I'm loving is that over the last week or so 'm finding the 'chest voice' (I suppose it's that! or mixed) is opening up to the upper ranges a lot at the moment. So whereas a couple of weeks ago, anything I said at above 210hz or so felt extremely light and heady with very little body, now my chest voice is able to go up with a lot of fullness and this continues to climb - in fact the rainbow reading above was my attempt at showing the extra 'bite' I have in that range now...although if I want to sound extra suave and ladylike it's very easy to add the lighter breathy quality back into the voice ;p it's just really exciting to experiment and really feel the progress lately and have been feeling really positive these last few days about all these changes...more to come soon I'm sure!

[Gigi_J]

Interesting, I hope the pitch start increasing when the Botox starts to wear off, preferably earlier )

My sister did note that my voice was kind of the same, but without the base

Absolutely Megan!! Even before this recent 'Eureka' moment a few days ago - when talking with friends, even when I felt I was talking at quite low hz ranges around them, they all noted that the old 'harsh/bassy' edge had gone...high fiiiive! ;p

And if my feelings over the last week or so are anything to go by with these changes I'm noticing I'd say your going to be feeling the same very soon!

Also sorry I haven't been as available to chat as much as we were these last few days...will message u now my Norwegian angel! ;p

[MeganChristine]

OMG, Gigi! Your voice sounds INCREDIBLE! We are talking about a lightspeed jump from the previous recording!

So looking forward to the point where the voice just clicks into place Might be just 14 days away, then. Hmmm... maybe I should lay off the coffee until then :p

[anjaq]

Oh that is so great to hear that things clicked for you, Gigi! 
And now I increasingly see that people report to have lost the " base" by-tones to the voice even at a lower average pitch. This really sounds so great and your voice is just perfect - no hint of something like a wrong resonance or low pitch. Pretty neat

[Jennygirl]

The recording sounds amazing Gigi!! Love your voice

That happens to me sometimes, when I am around family my voice tries to crawl downwards for some reason. But I was listening to my mom the last time I saw her and she was speaking lower than me! Must have been 160-170hz average.

And yes I too go much higher when I am alone. Rainbow passage feels weird to do anything under 215hz, but in normal everyday conversation I am around 185-195... sometimes lower down into 160-170s if I'm around people I know really well.

[anjaq]

I definitely go up when readin or on the phone and down around comfy people. Interestingly people claim that my lower voice is better, less fake and maybe even more female sounding than the higher pitches. For this reason I actually considered not aiming for a high pitch anymore but somehow get used to the lower pitch - what gain would it be for me to do the higher pitch if it sounds less good after all. So at least for now it may be contraproductive to try and raise my F0, but I try rather to use higher pitches just for some words to create more of a melody. I am not sure what VFS would do there - if it gives me what I have now if I do the higher pitches, I would not be happy with it as they do often not sound that good.

Jenny, if you go as low as 160 Hz, which is basically just some semitones higher than what I usually have now, how does your voice sound then? Like a woman who wants to deliberately speak low? Do you get vocal fry then? Does resonance change - I mean, in the lower range, more likela a male resonance can set in, right?

Greetings

[Jennygirl]

It sounds way different than it used to when I go that low, basically all chestiness is cut out... the sound still remains soft.

Resonance is truly an afterthought now- I really have to force myself to lower my larynx and it just sounds ridiculous.

My absolute bottom end is near 138hz, that is where vocal fry kicks in. Pre op that limit was around 77hz

[anjaq]

So resonance got easier for you then? And even if you loose it, it still is different. That sounds pretty cool. I was at the voice trainer today - she keeps bringing up the surgery almost every time now and thinks about if this would be for me and what would possibly change, I think she is curious and would like to see what happens to me if I go for it - She said that since my upper range is so incredible, I should at least have not much issue with high pitches, but she thinks of course that since I have that whole spectrum, I should basically just use it and that would already be enough. Seems my main issues are tension and monotony.
Still, I hope to have the money for Dr Kim by early 2015 as there is basically only one time I could afford that 8 week gap and that is in February/March.
Sinc eI have now dropped in pitch to get rid of the strain and tension, it would be odd though - it cannot really easily be explained away.

[Livvykins]

Hi lovely ladies!


So I've done a little 6 week video... it's pretty much me just nattering and I've been mega hoarse so apologies... probably due to far too much talking and not enough resting! I'm going to try and shut up for the rest of the week!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoD12zhfJpM&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw

[MeganChristine]

Hahaha! Totally brilliant, Livvykins. I think I woke up all the neighbours on that one

Sounding wonderful as usual

[Livvykins]

Hahaha! Totally brilliant, Livvykins. I think I woke up all the neighbours on that one

Sounding wonderful as usual

haha, thanks Megan!  It's nice to have my own theme tune, even if it's the music for a cartoon pig

I don't think I've had that "click" moment yet but hopefully if I actually give things a chance to heal (I'm SO impatient!) I might see a big improvement  

I'm still waiting for Jessie to sort my pre-op sample out, which I'll certainly post here... it will be just as useful to me I think as I've no idea what I sounded like before now... it should give me some perspective  She said I should get it this week.

[MeganChristine]

Yeah, really looking forward to the "click" myself. A tad impatient too, yet it's quite extraordinary that it's been six weeks for you and five for me. Even tho we want things NOW, it seems like time is passing quite quickly :

[anjaq]

The video is funny, with the intro. I like the voice - it seems a bit low from swelling - it sounds like you have a laryngitis - a bit lower pitch and some hoarseness. I guess it will just take some rest and it will pass - other than that , it is IMO cleraly female sound and again I notoced that one of the features of this VFS seems to be that the undertones are gone - which is interesting as this is usually ascribed to resonance control. So even if pitch does not go up too much, the change in voice quality may be already worth it. I would like to know however how all of this relates to the botox, which supposedly makes the voice softer as well (Jenny was IIRC suggested to get botox injections every half year or so to keep the voice soft and not have the vocal tremor). Anyways - good to hear this and Hopefully your "surgical laryngitis" will go away soon