Stealth while on HRT?

[Kara Jayde]

I'm wanting to go on HRT very soon, but I don't think I'll be ready to come out for a long while. I'm happy to just start to look a little more feminine while presenting as a man, until I'm ready (have to wait on my hair growing out and my job change anyway), and I don't think HRT is strong enough for people to really notice me changing, except in one area...

If I do develop breasts very quickly, what should I do to stay stealth? Would that mean having to wear binders until I go full time? Is that how everyone else here did it before presenting as female?

I'd like to present androgynously for the next two years, but if I have breasts then people will definitely suspect that I am actually transitioning, as opposed to just being/looking a little more feminine.

[Ronnie]

that is exactly how i feel about my transition but the London charing cross gender identity clinic  have said you have to dress and present as female for at least 3 months before they will consider you for the HRT is what my therapist told me but thats on the NHS if you go private you should be able to do things at your own pace and not have to worry about going with there guidelines anyone correct me if I'm wrong

[Ms Grace]

You'll find the breasts relatively easy to conceal for at least the first six months. Depending on their development it might be a bit more difficult beyond that time - I saw you mention elsewhere that you're in Melbourne so six to eight months from now will land you in Spring/Summer and those Melbourne summers can be very hot. Easy enough to conceal breasts under layers of clothes and jackets during winter... not so much with a tee shirt. I went stealth on HRT for nine months, had thought I'd make it to 12 before going full time but then decided I couldn't wait that long!

[ErinM]

For me I went a year on HRT before I started presenting female and 19 months before going full time.

My breasts came in at about 8 months but when wearing baggy male clothing mostly hides them. I had a few people notice, but by then "boy mode" was turning into "I don't give a <euphemism for excrement>" mode. If I still wanted to, I'm sure that I could still pass as male.

I'm a believer that the effects of HRT can remain hidden for a long time unless you are "unlucky" enough to have vary dramatic results.

[immortal gypsy]

You'll find the breasts relatively easy to conceal for at least the first six months. Depending on their development it might be a bit more difficult beyond that time - I saw you mention elsewhere that you're in Melbourne so six to eight months from now will land you in Spring/Summer and those Melbourne summers can be very hot. Easy enough to conceal breasts under layers of clothes and jackets during winter... not so much with a tee shirt. I went stealth on HRT for nine months, had thought I'd make it to 12 before going full time but then decided I couldn't wait that long!

Grace what where you on just e? I ask as I have a family wedding in late November (our spring) and I've been told it's not about you it's about your sister, and in some of most of my cloathing you can tell something is going on.

[Kaylee]

that is exactly how i feel about my transition but the London charing cross gender identity clinic  have said you have to dress and present as female for at least 3 months before they will consider you for the HRT is what my therapist told me but thats on the NHS if you go private you should be able to do things at your own pace and not have to worry about going with there guidelines anyone correct me if I'm wrong

Your therapist needs to have a read through the new RCP guidelines, the recommendation now is to allow HRT WITHOUT any FT requirement, and I'm sure that the NHS guidelines have been amended to follow suite.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/files/pdfversion/CR181.pdf

[Ronnie]

Your therapist needs to have a read through the new RCP guidelines, the recommendation now is to allow HRT WITHOUT any FT requirement, and I'm sure that the NHS guidelines have been amended to follow suite.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/files/pdfversion/CR181.pdf

ok thats good news then i wouldn't want to start my RLE before I'm ready and confident enough

[Ms Grace]

Grace what where you on just e? I ask as I have a family wedding in late November (our spring) and I've been told it's not about you it's about your sister, and in some of most of my cloathing you can tell something is going on.

No, on Spiro and P as well. But I know some others only on E who feel they've had substantial growth after only six months. Thing is, everyone is different, and how their body responds to HRT, regardless of type and dosage, is different. You won't really know until you know. Maybe you should be checking out a nice flock for the wedding!

[Beverly]

Your therapist needs to have a read through the new RCP guidelines, the recommendation now is to allow HRT WITHOUT any FT requirement, and I'm sure that the NHS guidelines have been amended to follow suite.

Just to be clear - these are GUIDELINES not RULES. Each clinic is free to create its own framework depending on their staff, facilities and past experience.

Charing have had bad experiences in the past when giving people HRT early in the process. That is why they want to see a commitment to the process.

[Beverly]

that is exactly how i feel about my transition but the London charing cross gender identity clinic  have said you have to dress and present as female for at least 3 months before they will consider you for the HRT is what my therapist told me but thats on the NHS if you go private you should be able to do things at your own pace and not have to worry about going with there guidelines anyone correct me if I'm wrong

I am at Charing. I was there two days ago for a surgical referral so I know their process well. What they want is for you to commence the PROCESS of transition. Change your name, start to change records like bank records, NHS records and start to come out to people. They expect you to document these changes. They do not care what you wear. Having said that if you turn up for your hormone appointment with a beard to your belly-button and bovver boots then do not expect things to go well.

RLE is really about starting the process of change and making the commitment to YOURSELF. No one is expecting you to turn up in a glittery frock, 6" heels and blonde wig. You could "dress as female" by wearing ladies' trousers and a plain blouse and 99.9% of people would not even notice but you would know and it is an easy first step on the process.

At some point you have to face the world. Wait long enough and the hormones will get you to the "weird" stage where you are neither one thing or the other and neither gender role will work. You need to be ready for this. There will not be a magic day where you wake up looking passable. It happens slowly and you need to be prepared for that.

[Ms Grace]

So glad we don't have that system in Australia...there's no way I would have wanted to change my name, out myself and start real life without at least seeing how or if the HRT would make a difference first.

[Kara Jayde]

You'll find the breasts relatively easy to conceal for at least the first six months. Depending on their development it might be a bit more difficult beyond that time - I saw you mention elsewhere that you're in Melbourne so six to eight months from now will land you in Spring/Summer and those Melbourne summers can be very hot. Easy enough to conceal breasts under layers of clothes and jackets during winter... not so much with a tee shirt. I went stealth on HRT for nine months, had thought I'd make it to 12 before going full time but then decided I couldn't wait that long!

I am in Melbourne so the coming summer would probably be the biggest concern if I was to start the HRT asap (which I'd like to do). I was thinking those embedded shirt-binders the boys often use might help in a pinch, but it still gets awfully hot in summer. I am a little worried though, since genetically the women in my family have quite large breasts, so I may develop them pretty quickly :/

I am at Charing. I was there two days ago for a surgical referral so I know their process well. What they want is for you to commence the PROCESS of transition. Change your name, start to change records like bank records, NHS records and start to come out to people. They expect you to document these changes. They do not care what you wear. Having said that if you turn up for your hormone appointment with a beard to your belly-button and bovver boots then do not expect things to go well.

RLE is really about starting the process of change and making the commitment to YOURSELF. No one is expecting you to turn up in a glittery frock, 6" heels and blonde wig. You could "dress as female" by wearing ladies' trousers and a plain blouse and 99.9% of people would not even notice but you would know and it is an easy first step on the process.

At some point you have to face the world. Wait long enough and the hormones will get you to the "weird" stage where you are neither one thing or the other and neither gender role will work. You need to be ready for this. There will not be a magic day where you wake up looking passable. It happens slowly and you need to be prepared for that.

I'm really happy that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite in Australia. Although I understand the mentality, it still seems strange to make the patient conform to a specific ideal of femininity before allowing them to alter their biological make up. It's not like wearing dresses is genetic -_- I have felt like a woman my entire life, but I rocked a beard and boots pretty much day in and day out. It doesn't change the fact that I am a woman, and want my body to follow suit, but I don't think what I dress in has any real affect on that process being something you're ready for or not? If GID is a diagnosable condition, no amount of looking like a lumberjack will change that.

[immortal gypsy]

You have to love our medical system sometimes so frustrating but with something like this so wonderfully simple thou a little nerve racking at times

No, on Spiro and P as well. But I know some others only on E who feel they've had substantial growth after only six months. Thing is, everyone is different, and how their body responds to HRT, regardless of type and dosage, is different. You won't really know until you know. Maybe you should be checking out a nice flock for the wedding!

While I would love to the one family member I've told right now is already freaking out (there is a post that explains a bit more). Maybe I'll have to settle for a nice pants suit

[luna nyan]

*waves at Nattie from Sydney*
Nattie, I've been on low dose for about 2 years with no intention of transitioning.  I'm sitting somewhere around AA to possibly A cup, but my rib cage is big enough that I can get away with it without binding.  Careful selection of better quality T shirts/polos which are relaxed fit works fine.  I do say that genetically, I'm from a family of washboards.  If you start HRT, be deliberate about keeping doses low - you will get some feminisation regardless, but it may be slow enough that it's unoticable to everyone except yourself.  Hopefully low doses will be enough to help you keep your sanity till you're ready for your next phase.

Other stuff I've gotten away with:
Most people won't pick up on electro/laser to the face.  I tended to swell pretty badly so I tended to get massively long sessions on the afternoon before a long weekend (3 days recovery before going back to work yay!).  If you're presenting male, people will just assume that you shave yourself very cleanly.  It'll only crop up as an issue if you're on a road trip with the guys and you're the only one without stubble in the morning.

Body hair management is usually ok, most people don't peg on that either, same with eyebrows so long as you don't arch them too much.

Basically an andro presentation won't scream "I'm transitioning" so long as you present male with your body language/presentation - if you act in a masculine enough manner, they won't notice anything amiss.

I've got more detail about my experiences in my low dose thread which I updated a couple of weeks ago.

[Beverly]

So glad we don't have that system in Australia...there's no way I would have wanted to change my name, out myself and start real life without at least seeing how or if the HRT would make a difference first.

The problem is that for a small, but significant, number of people, they get the changes of HRT and then cannot cope with those. It does not turn out as they expect and the medical fallout from these incidents takes up a lot of resource in an overstretched system.

However, we DO have private clinics here and they will prescribe very quickly if you pay them. It is not even that expensive around £150 every 3 months so people can chose.

[Beverly]

it still seems strange to make the patient conform to a specific ideal of femininity before allowing them to alter their biological make up. It's not like wearing dresses is genetic

Did you read any of what I said? I specifically said that "They do not care what you wear".

My subsequent comment about beards and boots would apply in any health care system. If you turn up hoping to change your body from one gender to another, most shrinks/therapists would have an expectation that you would want to match your target gender. That is human nature. If you desire an "odd" appearance then they will be bound to investigate to ensure that you do not have some other issues that need sorting first.

[Kara Jayde]

*waves at Nattie from Sydney*
Nattie, I've been on low dose for about 2 years with no intention of transitioning.  I'm sitting somewhere around AA to possibly A cup, but my rib cage is big enough that I can get away with it without binding.  Careful selection of better quality T shirts/polos which are relaxed fit works fine.  I do say that genetically, I'm from a family of washboards.  If you start HRT, be deliberate about keeping doses low - you will get some feminisation regardless, but it may be slow enough that it's unoticable to everyone except yourself.  Hopefully low doses will be enough to help you keep your sanity till you're ready for your next phase.

Other stuff I've gotten away with:
Most people won't pick up on electro/laser to the face.  I tended to swell pretty badly so I tended to get massively long sessions on the afternoon before a long weekend (3 days recovery before going back to work yay!).  If you're presenting male, people will just assume that you shave yourself very cleanly.  It'll only crop up as an issue if you're on a road trip with the guys and you're the only one without stubble in the morning.

Body hair management is usually ok, most people don't peg on that either, same with eyebrows so long as you don't arch them too much.

Basically an andro presentation won't scream "I'm transitioning" so long as you present male with your body language/presentation - if you act in a masculine enough manner, they won't notice anything amiss.

I've got more detail about my experiences in my low dose thread which I updated a couple of weeks ago.

Heyyy Luna, yes, I may speak to my GP/Therapist about a medium/low dosage once it gets to that point, so that my transition can be long enough that I can move at my own pace. I can easily act masculine, since I've been doing it my entire life to fit in. Yeeeeh beer, boobs, cars, sports, et cetera 

Body hair is a different story. I've trimmed my eyebrows just a tad, cleaning them up from the usual wild brushy state they used to be in, and my close friend picked it up straight away. He kept looking at me and saying, wow, you look really metro. You almost look gay... And I swear, they are still massive bushy eyebrows, I just trimmed them down a tiny amount. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to get away with, my friends seem pretty observant haha.

If you turn up hoping to change your body from one gender to another, most shrinks/therapists would have an expectation that you would want to match your target gender. That is human nature. If you desire an "odd" appearance then they will be bound to investigate to ensure that you do not have some other issues that need sorting first.

I did read what you said, but you mentioned having to at least wear female trousers and a blouse, and I wasn't sure if that was more for the patient or the shrinks. If this is expected by the shrinks, it makes me a little uncomfortable. I think it's unfair to 'expect' a person who is transitioning to fit a certain mold they may have of femininity, that's all. If I wanted to wear a beard until I was passable, I think that should be up to me.

[Ms Grace]

The problem is that for a small, but significant, number of people, they get the changes of HRT and then cannot cope with those. It does not turn out as they expect and the medical fallout from these incidents takes up a lot of resource in an overstretched system.

I certainly understand that and it's important to make sure people are up to the immense stress of the process. I was on HRT previously for two years before backing out - a lot of that had to do with poor professional support but also because I was disappointed by almost zero breast growth. I still so much wanted to be a woman but I was severely depressed and didn't feel it was ever going to work. At least I had an out, had I been required to change my name two years earlier and out myself I would have done it just to jump through the hoops, but I would have felt trapped at that point two years later, possibly suicidal. My experience this time, and judging by many posts here it is the same for others too, that starting HRT first goes a long way towards reducing the dysphoria...maybe not for everyone, but it did for me. With that out of the way it makes one start to feel more in tune with their identified gender, the stress is reduced and makes the next step of real life experience seem more doable. This time it worked out better than I could have hoped. But if I'd been required to change name and out myself before I could start? I wouldn't have, just no way - and I would have been as miserable, if not more so, than I was a year ago. So yeah, some people don't cope - I didn't cope - but I wouldn't expect others to be required to "prove" themselves first because of that. There are a lot of hurdles along the way but a more supportive, less prescriptive, medical system would go a long way towards removing some of those barriers.

[immortal gypsy]

It also depends on the psychiatrist and you. If your beard is a 'beard' then there might not be a problem. However what ever method you choose for permanent hair removal as the song goes "it's going to take patience and time". So the sooner you start getting rid of it the better.

[Rachel]

I am 10 months HRT. The first 9 months I was at 2/3 highest does of E and now I am on the highest dose of E.

I have breast growth I would say an A and I expect to eventually be a full B or C. It is spring here and I have some sports bras. The issue is a t-shirt will show a sports bra. So I guess I will need to wear striped shirts over the t-shirt this summer. Next summer I will need to consider how well I can look and make decisions on clothing based on looking good.