Advice on where to stay

[Ayden]

So, I'm being super proactive about getting all my ducks in a row and quacking before I leave. I've found a lot of nice hotels near Dr. Garramone and I wanted to see if anyone had any advice about hotels down there.

I've heard of new beginnings, but I'm weary. A lot if guys go there and have a nice recovery. However, it states in the pre op packets that the office does not have any affiliation with New Beginnings. I asked the gal at the office and I was told "we don't have any agreements with anyone. There are hotels that come highly recommended by previous patients. You do not need to worry about traveling alone, as we can put you in touch with an agency that will provide a caregiver. Our office works with this agency closely and you will have a competent nurse with you."

I'm not keen on being around strangers when I am compromised in any way and I would rather be with medical professionals when I have no choice.

[aleon515]

NBR is not affiliated at all, but they don't say they are. I don't feel this is anything to be wary about.
You don't NEED to stay there. But you can. BTW, they fill up FAST.

I stayed there while they were going thru a weird time, but if I were to do it all over again I'd do it again. I went by myself, I don't know if you are or not, can't recall. His office is recommending home health aides. AFAIC, I would have hated that. I really needed someone one day, I would not have known that. You don't need that much care really, help with drains (initially, I did), maybe, to get comfortable, that sort of thing. You don't need nursing care or anything, but NBR knows when they can loosen up the bandages and how the drains work and any questions you might have that aren't strictly speaking medical (what's going to happen and so on). The other thing home health care aides wouldn't all gender you correctly and so forth. NICE staying somewhere where you are a guy and are treated like one, it doesn't matter how "passing" you are.

Another thing, I don't know how you would be at a large motel and find trans guys. I think it might happen by accident, unless you happen to have the same appointment times and you happen to be staying at the same place. As it was I had a great time with a family from Ireland (actually closer in age to the parents). It was nice to see people going thru the same thing you were.

You also have the use of a whole kitchen (though I pretty much only used the kitchen and microwave) and every so often Leland made breakfast (breakfast foods are on hand). Another good thing, there are other places to sit and so on, this encourages you to walk around, which is good for you.

Probably the best thing is transportation, they take you everywhere including out to eat if you want to do that and to the store and so on, not just appointments.

It was NOT perfect, by any stretch. I had didn't really like getting dropped off at the airport something like 3 hours early. Another problem that they have solved, they used to have one bathroom for some two rooms. I had to share with a couple femme girls. OY. But now there is a bathroom per room.

So that's my take. I think they fill up pretty fast.

--Jay

[Bimmer Guy]

I had the same experience as Jay.  I was there about a month before Jay, I guess.  The only thing Jay didn't mention (but I suppose was obvious), is that you will save quite a bit of dough if you stay there.  It will also be less stressful.  They think for you, which is nice when you are having any type of surgery.

However, I believe that it should not be completely ignored that Garramone decided to recommend a certain hotel on his website (look under "Before Surgery Info", plus in his pre-op packet), when he did not do this before.  In fact, when I got my surgery done, (10/10/13), Garramone's website said that although they don't recommend specific hotels, many people stay with "Leland", and actually listed his phone number.  This is how I found NBR.  NBR never stated to me that they were affiliated with Garramone and corrected me when I made a comment assuming they were. 

I actually stayed at the Comfort Inn Garramone has on his site when I went down for a face to face consult, and it was a nice hotel.  I would definitely stay there again.  It was the closest hotel to Garramone's office.

Something to keep in mind is that both Jay and I went there when NBR was located at the old house.  I would look to find someone who has stayed at the new location.  I suppose they moved around January 2014.

I also saw there is still a sharing of bathrooms, but in less rooms.  Looks like you can pay the same amount for a room with your own bath, though.  I could be misreading the site.

Good luck with your decision.

[aleon515]

I had a friend stay after but it was the week before they moved, and I think they were the last guests. I don't know anybody who's stayed there since but another good thing they are MUCH closer. This friend saw it and thought it was a really nice place, no pix on the site yet.

I saved a LOT of money as well, a lot of it from making my own "meals" which were mostly frozen dinners and sandwiches and not having to transport myself. I agree with them making a lot of your decisions which is useful in that particular situation. I maybe spent all together $70 US (normally I think your budget would be about $10/meal or $5 if you were going for fast food), which includes a couple restaurant meals. Leland also took the whole house to dinner which was fun, I mean we went out together he didn't pay.

The Comfort Inn is a nice US motel chain and I have stayed at a lot of them (and La Quinta, not sure if this is in FL). They have a nice breakfast set up. Apparently Dr G has made some sort of deal with them which lowers the cost to $110 or so a night, which is a good rate for a US hotel of that quality. (I think typically NBR would be competitive.) They used to put NBR on his website, not sure what happened or if Dr G just decided to branch out since I think he has a bit of business interest.

--Jay

[Bimmer Guy]

. Apparently Dr G has made some sort of deal with them which lowers the cost to $110 or so a night, which is a good rate for a US hotel of that quality. (I think typically NBR would be competitive.) They used to put NBR on his website, not sure what happened or if Dr G just decided to branch out since I think he has a bit of business interest.

--Jay

That in itself could be the explanation.  How many top surgeons do you know who go to the trouble of trying to get in on the binder market by creating their own?

I wonder what Garramone gets back from the hotel.  Maybe nothing.  Does anyone know what is standard in those situations (events/medical professionals where people come from a distance and there is a lower rate at a certain hotel)? 

[aleon515]

That in itself could be the explanation.  How many top surgeons do you know who go to the trouble of trying to get in on the binder market by creating their own?

I wonder what Garramone gets back from the hotel.  Maybe nothing.  Does anyone know what is standard in those situations (events/medical professionals where people come from a distance and there is a lower rate at a certain hotel)?

Yes, maybe nothing. By a deal Dr G gets to control the kind of services his patients get (surgeons are kind of control freaks anyway) and the hotel gets more business from his patients. I don't think anyone else is in the binder business, but it isn't unheard of for surgeons who do a lot of surgery on people in different areas to have "deals" for hotels. Dr McGinn is planning a "guest house" type arrangement, I'm guessing Dr G is next?

--Jay

[Ayden]

Jay and Brett:

Thanks for your replies. I have heard a lot of good about NBR, but I'm not sure it would be comfortable for me. I'm a lot like a cat, in that I like to tend to myself and lick my wounds in private. I worry about privacy. Granted being in a hotel is false privacy but at least it's unlikely that the staff will just walk in. I don't even like housekeeping when I stay in hotels. I'm sure I will need help my first day, but I am no stranger to the folks that work with home nursing agencies. My father in law is in that line of work so I know the way it's supposed to function and the kinds of folk they employ and honestly, I guess that's where the comfort comes from. I know exactly what I would get into in that situation.

It would be nice to save money, but I want it go as smoothly as possible. It is highly likely I will be alone, as my husband has to work (it's finals time at his Uni) and my friend who was going to help had been admitted to the hospital and will likely have surgery. I want her to recover completely and not worry about her goofball brother. My mother may be able to be there, but it's a big maybe.

I don't mind not meeting people. I'm a little crotchety already and being pain makes me a butt. It would be nice but I dont want to hinge my recovery on being social. I can handle being misgendered because I don't put much stock in strangers. That was never my concern.

One of my concerns is that I can't find much by way of reviews. That doubled with the office telling me they don't approve any recovery center makes me weary. I know that NBR had some trouble but I have no idea what that was. I understand not advertising what their problems were but what if it was due to abuse of power, robbery, etc. I know I sound paranoid but I've heard horror stories about "recovery centers" and I wish I knew what the trouble had been. Nothing detailed just "oh it was leasing" or "it was because if tax problems" would be better than "they had legal problems and you dont get to know how serious it was". All the reviews I see are from people who are on site. If I saw things after the fact I wouldn't worry so much, but if every guy gives a glowing review while staying there it feels a little tainted. Of course they won't say bad things if they are actively using the services provided.

I don't expect anything to be perfect. It never is. I was told that Hawaii was a terrible vacation place by a lot of people and I loved every second. I have been told that products are bad and I enjoy them. But there is always an ample amount of good and bad reviews. I can't find anything aside from the website about the new location. I know that Leland had his surgery with Dr. G and I want to trust them because it makes my recovery so much easier, but I wish I could hear anything aside from what's on the website.

God, I sound so paranoid. I wouldn't be so bad if my husband was going with me. He's got an excellent head on is shoulders. There's just so few people that I trust in general.

[Bimmer Guy]

You are NOT being paranoid.  The husband of an ex of mine recently went there.  I actually suggested they go there some months ago (before the Garramone's web site change), and they scheduled at that time.  I will contact her.

I am pretty confident that it falls on the side of "leasing" issues.  I can't imagine it is taking advantage of others.  Just my opinion.

I COMPLETELY understand the idea of not wanting to be around other people.  This is the reason I wasn't going to go to NBR.  I decided to go ahead and go because I didn't want to have to worry about renting a car, directions, etc.  Although my partner was with me, I am the one who would have handled all those details and i just didn't want to focus on anything but getting better.

So, like you, the idea of being with "people" was not something I was looking forward to and told my partner I was just going to hide in my room and asked that she navigate how that would look to others.  This was completely unnecessary to worry about.  What I actually REALLY liked about this place was that everyone was very aware of each other's boundaries.  I said as much to my partner while we were there.  No one is going to knock on your bedroom door.  No one is going to expect you to hang out with them.  Everyone is in pain, so it is quiet and people move about as it suits them.  You can be as social as you want or as not social as you want.  This is expected.  People are sleeping half/most of the time, so the house is aways quiet.  They went out to dinner one night and I decided not to go, but my partner did.  No one thought anything of it.

Now this isn't to say that I didn't meet some people there I really liked.  I LOVE that I had the opportunity to go through this with other people.  It was great to compare with Z each day how he was doing and if he was taking any pain pills.  Was he sleeping sitting up or in the recliner?  Is he more itchy today than he is in pain?  Is his binder really tight?  How bad do his drains hurt?  Do mine hurt more than his and is this normal?  That kind of stuff.  It was nice to have.  This is what surprised me the most....very surprising, actually.

I think calling it a "recovery house", really isn't an accurate term.  Jay and I talked about this.  It is more like a Bed and Breakfast and they give you rides to places, while making sure you have everything you need (food, medical needs met).  Yes, they are attentive when you first get home after surgery and if you need something, but the owners have other work/businesses that they attend to outside the house.  You are more on your own, than not on your own there. 

The ONLY reason why I have hesitated to say GO FOR IT in this thread is because I don't know why it is that Garramone changed his website.  But, it could be as simple as a personality conflict and one patient saying they don't think they were treated well or something.  With that many people going through that house not everyone can have good experiences and there are also some people you can never please.

It's a tough decision.  I don't envy you.  Go with your gut.  I will get back to you about that other person's experience.

[King Malachite]

I am really glad that you made this thread, Ayden as Garramone one's new warning about staying at recovery "sites" concerned me  since I wanted to stay at NBR.  I did find a couple of guys on Youtube talking about their experiences at NBR within the last 5 months (when I think their new building was around?) and they seemed to have enjoyed their stay and their reviews didn't come from the NBR page so maybe it's worth checking them out if you haven't already. 







The first video was about two months ago while the other one was about five months ago.  This gives me a bit of comfort.

[aleon515]

It was pretty much a HOA (Home Owner's Association) issue. This is a group that has nothing better to do than enforce their regulations. These are not actually "laws". It was  a complex situation. But as you know not everyone is very trans friendly and this includes HOAs sometimes. NBR have been in the new site since December(?). One video talks about the Botanical Garden, this was not near the old place.

I most definitely did *not* feel they ripped me off and I feel I got what I paid for and that it was a good deal. However, it may be that Dr G felt they were traveling in his coat tails, so to speak. This is just a theory, but they are in some respect. Still, NBR does NOT say they are related in some way to his practice, and if you have a real medical need they will have you call him, even if they think that they could answer the problem. However, I think there are people that chose Dr G because of NBR. So he benefits as well.

The implied or stated concerns were that people are getting ripped off (quite the opposite), being taken advantage of (not at all true), unsafe (this implies that you are in mortal danger after surgery is this true?), illegal (should Florida go after them? Why doesn't Dr G send it after them then and not ask others to do it), and complaining to be affiliated with Dr G (not true at all), you'd be better off with a home health care aide if going alone (really really questionable imo). Perhaps I'll make a video answering that one, I think that one's just nuts. I do think NBR shouldn't use the words "Recovery house" (if they do?). My clone and I agree with B and B or perhaps Guest House. It's actually quite a lot like the Guest Houses I stayed in elsewhere in Florida actually.

As to privacy, well you have your own room. There is also space all around, in actuality the owners aren't around that much. They do not get in your way or try and get you to socialize. If you WANT to socialize you can, but you aren't in any way encouraged to. I don't think the new place is as big, but it still is big enough you could go any number of places without them or anybody else. I was alone 80-90%, and when I wasn't it was mostly my choice.
It's like a big guest house, which may be not typical of most US lodging. The only day I did not have privacy was the day after surgery. I came by myself and I wouldn't have wanted it, tbh. I also liked being able to compare notes with people. How are you sleeping? Are you taking Vicodin? etc etc. Also to see people progress and so forth.

Also if you go by yourself you will NEED to hire a home health aide if you don't stay at NBR. Dr G will not allow you to have surgery without someone there. Perhaps someone has had that experience (home health care aide) and can tell you how that is. I know of one person who did this. I think it worked out okay, but not sure I would have liked it. You might want to post that on the bottom surgery forum too as I am pretty sure someone has had to do this.

Aside from that caveat, you can certainly stay in a motel. I think the Comfort Inn is a nice choice if you want to stay at one. It's clean and comfortable (and apparently near by). If you go by yourself I would suggest you get some self-stable food (like peanut butter/bread, etc.) and a few paper plates and utensils etc for the day of surgery as you aren't going to want to go out that day.


--Jay

[Bimmer Guy]

Reporting back in:

I texted my ex and she said it went very well.  She is very happy that they stayed there.  She made a comment about a guy and his partner saying they stayed in a hotel to save money (which of course did not happen).  They were putting out $60 a cab ride.

It really is a no brainer, financially.

I just checked out the videos.  The guy in the second video stayed in their first house.

You're right, Jay, and I didn't think about it.  You would have to have the medical person for 24 hours (or lie to Garramone about it).

Ayden, if you do go to a hotel make sure they have a microwave and fridge.  Buy TV dinners, sandwich meat, and the like. 

Malachite, by the time you get your surgery you will either be confident in going there or confident in NOT going there.  In another year it will even fall apart or expand, I bet.

[aleon515]

I don't know how you'd lie about bringing someone, well maybe you can. You have to name names, so to speak. You give the name of the person picking you up and phone, etc. You probably don't know that as you had someone with you. So you have to be a darn good liar. Let's say, you were able to lie your way into doing this. After surgery, you are going to, in the state you are in after surgery, get up and walk to the curb, hail a cab, and give a correct address to get yourself back to your hotel. That sure sounds like fun. Not sure I could have done that. It's also possible you could be nauseated.

I am pretty sure about your comments re: in a year. I think that's their make or break. Either it survives being discouraged on Dr G's website and any problems they had or not.

The Comfort Suites (not Inn) has a kitchen so that's really good advice re: getting stuff to eat before your surgery. You can definitely save a huge amt. of money that way. Though they probably can't really expand. I think they have 6-7 rooms and that's that.


--Jay

[Bimmer Guy]

Hey, Jay.  When I said expand, I meant them adding another house.

[aleon515]

Hey, Jay.  When I said expand, I meant them adding another house.

Okay, I don't see that happening though. I think if they succeed they keep their one house, and if not they don't. They stop making ends meet and have to close.

--Jay

[timbuck2]

I had a good experience with airbnb.

[aleon515]

I had a good experience with airbnb.

Probably otherwise an excellent idea. The thing is that Dr G is offering quite a nice discount on Comfort Suites (which is very nice), which is quite a lot less than he could typically get. He's also offering shuttle service. Or he can stay at NBR.

--Jay

[Ayden]

Wow! This exploded while I was away! Thanks for the replies, guys. Sorry I haven't gotten back here in a few days. It's been really busy at work. (New preschool students and training a new teacher).

Brett: thanks for asking your ex. It's a relief to hear that the new location is a good one. And that you for sharing. It's relieving to know that there are guys like me who stay their comfortably. I'm glad to hear that it's more like a B&B than a recovery center/nursing home/country club. I don't do well in those situations when it's just me. I am very relieved to hear that I wouldn't be forced into socializing. I can't think of anything more unpleasant.

Malachite: I hadn't seen these videos (I'm a youtube dunce). Thanks for sharing. It's nice to see something outside of the site too. Like you, I saw that warning and red flags went up. I had been making serious plans to stay there until I saw that. I'm still considering it.

Jay: once I relaxed a little and thought about it, it makes sense that it would be HOA issue. Now that I think about it, a transwoman I know in Alaska had the same problems once she began transition and began holding support meetings for other gender variant folk in my home town. I know, the gall of her, right? How could she do something SO terrible as offer support for folks.

The concerns I had were all just my imagination running wild with me. I of course understand a mutually beneficial arrangement and I am happy to pay for services, especially when I am in need of said services. I'm not in any way worried about my safety any more than I think is normal (flying after surgery, worry about anesthesia, etc). If I was worried about my safety aside from that I wouldn't be telling anyone I was having surgery.

If you don't my asking, is there a particular reason you don't recommend home health care? I ask because I have heard a lot of people say that it's good and a lot who say "no way!". I've never been in this situation so I don't have any personal experience.

I don't really mind staying somewhere that it's specifically recommended by the doctor. At the end of the day it is my recovery and if stating at one place over another makes it a better recovery I will certainly do that. I can't say why Dr. Garramone suddenly changed his site and I'm honestly not keen on asking them.

Thanks for your insight. I think I'm gonna contact the owners via email or a phone call and talk to them. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character.

[Bimmer Guy]

Ayden,

I think that talking with the owner is an excellent idea.

Side note, my ex stayed there for 10 nights, which is more than most.  Most stay well, I guess 8 nights.  She would have seen an additional surgery group move through the system than most people do, is what I am saying.  Usually when you get there you meet the guys who went the week before you and are on their way out.  You may meet a guy or two that went a couple days ahead of you.  When you are leaving, the new guys who came in are about to have their surgery.  She would have seen those guys come back and during their first few days of recovery.

Point is, she would have had more time and met more people and saw more things than maybe most would that you would talk with.   

Also, make sure you know the regulations on how much time has to have passed since your surgery date before you can fly home.  I met a guy who was from England.  He came in as I was leaving.  He shared with me that he had to stay a few more days than what is typical because he wasn't allowed (?, I got the sense it was a "regulation" thing and not a "good idea to wait", thing"), to fly until so many days after the surgery.  I think you are in Japan or somewhere outside the U.S.?

In terms of the home health aid thing, I will let Jay respond to that ('cause I don't have an opinion).

What I will say though is it would freak me out if I had a random person sitting in my hotel room with me for 24 hours.  You don't really need care, so it would just be weird and really, really uncomfortable to me.  That alone is a reason I would stay at NBR.  The "rule" of someone being around for 24 hours after surgery is met, and you don't have to interact with said "watcher" (NBR), at all.  You get a fridge in your room, so unless you want to microwave, you can really stay up there for days.

Oh, and something else REALLY important.  A lot of people like to sleep in a recliner and not the bed.  My GF called all the hotels in the area to see if any of them had recliners in the rooms.  None of them did.  At NBR there is one in every bedroom.

Good luck with your decision.  Know that if Garramone is scheduling out to July, NBR is, as well.  I'd call sooner rather than later to ensure you get one of the cheaper rooms.

[aleon515]

Home health care is an option, but here's my opinion on it. I don't think it's a *bad* idea per se. But I have no idea how it would work. I don't know maybe it is because I was in very good shape after surgery. I had one really hard day and that was the day of surgery. But I didn't really need much. Bonnie helped me with getting myself "comfortable" (in quotes because you aren't comfortable), she helped me with getting something to eat,  little stuff like that. She didn't stay with me or anything, but it was good to know they were there in case. So where do you *put* the home health care aide. Are they in your room? Do you need a suite? This isn't clear to me. After surgery, as I said, you need someone with you. Mostly if you get a motel room you get a single room, so is this aide with you in your room? In the case of NBR they are in the house but they aren't in your face. She knocked in my door the day of surgery a few times, asked if I was hungry, etc. But she wasn't *with* me. Also how many days do you need someone? I needed a little help with the drains. I suppose I could have managed. If not, I would have had to hire someone for this little job. This was twice a day in my case (in some cases a few days more). It's a little overkill that I would have needed to hire someone for a day or two just to do that. But what do people do in determining how many days they need someone? The other thing, my best friend came by my house after I had come home. She nearly drove me nuts. She was so solicitous. Not sure why but this kind of thing annoys me about as much as socializing annoys you. I agree with Brett re: someone "watching" me in my room. EW!!

Other stuff: I used the recliner. They also had "pillow chairs" in all the rooms. You can't sleep flat or on your side so it was nice to have some options. I found the room and house pretty comfortable. And I did move around-- sit here or there without having to even socialize. I'm not entirely sociable either, but I do like it on my terms, which is totally possible.


--Jay

[Ayden]

Looks like all my worrying about who will stay with me is going to be going away. I talked to my mother today and she is dead set on being there.

From my understanding of Florida law the health care providers would stay for a full 24 hours, so I don't know how I would feel about that. In Alaska they require that the worker spend shifts with you and be close by when no present.

I have an awkward question for you fellas. Restroom: how limited is your movement? I have been potty trained for well over 20 years and frankly I don't think I would be comfortable with anyone wiping me. My friend who is in the hospital mentioned that the nurses had to help her in that area (she just had her gallbladder removed) and I don't think I could be cool if I had to go poo and couldn't wipe....