Why are we like this?

[Colleen♡Callie]

That's really subjective, define inequality for an animal without abstract thought. I'd say the difference is that they behave the way they behave, and there's little flux. Depending on the level of dimorphism in the species, the females and males may behave completely differently, and how you'd define equality depends on what aspect you're defining. Child rearing? Food supply? Protection from predators? Mate selection? Which elements are equal, because in most cases these are far from equal between the genders of dimorphic species, depending on how you view it. I'm not attributing a positive or negative connotation to my use of the word equal by the way.

Yeah, I'm not sure where I was going with that to be honest.  Whatever my train of thought was then it's gone now, and your counter of it is excellent and spot on.

Beautifully explained! This is exactly what I was trying to get at, but you've expressed it so eloquently. Thank you! I think that really is the best way to explain it. There is no biological basis behind culturally defined abstract femininity, but in the desire to integrate into the feminine itself.

When I first put on female clothes, for example, I felt euphoric, after spending a lifetime crossdressing in male clothes. It felt so good that I could have easily attributed the feeling to a predisposition to wearing female clothes, as odd as that would be, but the more likely is, my desire to integrate into society as a woman, and be seen as a women, projects onto those things which hold 'femininity' in society. A bra, which is never worn by a man, instantly eases dysphoria, because it makes you suddenly feel closer to what your biological drive has been pushing for, integration into the correct gender role (regardless of the culture built up around it).

Thank you.  This is my big objection whenever someone tries to say that transwomen try to be caricatures of femininity.  That we focus too much on things society deems feminine like make-up and dresses and the like and there's more to being female than that.  As if we're trying to be a stereotype of a woman rather than a woman.

What they miss, besides the point that make-up and feminine attire and long hair often are necessary to help us pass and be accepted as a woman, and not misgendered (just like short hair and no makeup, and male clothes are helpful to transmen in passing.  We aren't the only ones that adopt social norms of our gender) is that as MtFs, we spent our lives unable to express our femininity whenever we wanted to in dress or make-up or whatever.  We weren't allowed.  We could don on pants though.  and wear our hair short, and go without make-up.  But we couldn't put on the dress, or make-up when we wanted to.  Those were barred from us.  They became symbols of what we couldn't and weren't allowed to be.  A lifetime of wanting and desiring to express our femininity as freely with those things as our cis-sisters were allowed to.  It was those things society deemed feminine that we couldn't enjoy with our cis-sisters, so naturally it is those things we yearn for the freedom to wear.

[Confused888]

I'm curious as to why we are transgender?  Is it biological? 

I ask because years ago I had a therapist tell me it was not real and reflected a psychological problem.  I'm also preparing to come out to people and want to figure this out.

I should know this already but I don't. I've spent the past decade trying to pretend it doesn't exist and stuffing my feelings down.

Wow I was going to ask this too...I think it's biological but then I wonder if environment comes into play somehow...I wish I knew! I don't like that it gender dysphoria is referred to by some as a "mental disorder" because then it makes us seem like we're crazy for feeling like this and our minds can be changed through therapy, but it's engrained in you and it can not be reversed...I'd much rather it be referred to as a biological condition because then it shows that this is not our choice and we're not crazy   

[Kade1985]

SilverGirl, there's a difference between.. gender roles and the things males and females just naturally act, or the things we are naturally attracted to.

If a guy wants to like makeup or girly things but still feels very much male then that's fine. That's where "gender roles" play in society. Or the opposite for women. Like a woman could be into stuff like cars, sports, guns, other things that are usually associated with men, but still feel very much like a woman, and still love BEING a woman. That doesn't mean they're trans or anything like that. That's the gender roles from society.

But in cases like being trans? Like where... in my case I was born female but identify and feel male.. That has to be a biological thing, I mean it makes no sense if it isn't. Whether I was born with higher than norm levels of T, or some other biological jargon that I am seriously not very educated on, and that's what makes me feel the way I do then I will go with the flow. I mean it makes me happier to be a man than I ever did being a woman.

I guess I still have some feminine like qualities to me.. Like have my girly giggle-snort moments, but for the most part? I'm really a guy on the inside, but just because I have feminine like moments doesn't mean it's from social pressure or anything. It's just who and how I am. Personalities, self identifications and preferences can be biological. Society can have an effect on it too, but mostly? It's biological. I mean I don't know how else to put it. We are who we are and we are quite frankly BORN this way and that within itself is a biological thing

[TRyan]

Wow I was going to ask this too...I think it's biological but then I wonder if environment comes into play somehow...I wish I knew! I don't like that it gender dysphoria is referred to by some as a "mental disorder" because then it makes us seem like we're crazy for feeling like this and our minds can be changed through therapy, but it's engrained in you and it can not be reversed...I'd much rather it be referred to as a biological condition because then it shows that this is not our choice and we're not crazy   

I agree about not liking that gender dysphoria is currently viewed as a mental disorder.  As if!  It just makes more sense to me that it's biological. Especially since so many of us feel better on hormones that straighten our brains out. Someone who has diabetes has to take medication to treat it. People with MS (which used to be perceived as all in your head) have to take medications to treat it.

Maybe trans is similar except our medications are hormones. I don't view it as pathological but I have internalized society's view of it. I'm trying to break free of it enough to come out to people.

[TRyan]

SilverGirl, there's a difference between.. gender roles and the things males and females just naturally act, or the things we are naturally attracted to.

If a guy wants to like makeup or girly things but still feels very much male then that's fine. That's where "gender roles" play in society. Or the opposite for women. Like a woman could be into stuff like cars, sports, guns, other things that are usually associated with men, but still feel very much like a woman, and still love BEING a woman. That doesn't mean they're trans or anything like that. That's the gender roles from society.

But in cases like being trans? Like where... in my case I was born female but identify and feel male.. That has to be a biological thing, I mean it makes no sense if it isn't. Whether I was born with higher than norm levels of T, or some other biological jargon that I am seriously not very educated on, and that's what makes me feel the way I do then I will go with the flow. I mean it makes me happier to be a man than I ever did being a woman.

I guess I still have some feminine like qualities to me.. Like have my girly giggle-snort moments, but for the most part? I'm really a guy on the inside, but just because I have feminine like moments doesn't mean it's from social pressure or anything. It's just who and how I am. Personalities, self identifications and preferences can be biological. Society can have an effect on it too, but mostly? It's biological. I mean I don't know how else to put it. We are who we are and we are quite frankly BORN this way and that within itself is a biological thing

Yeah-I agree.  It's strange because I don't necessarily identify as wanting to be a man. I just want to be me and that includes having secondary male characteristics.

I wonder why our culture gets so upset that we challenge binary gender norms. 

[Hex]

Now I have an interesting question that I just thought of. What would happen if gender was scientifically proven 100% to be biological and we were born this way, would insurance companies change their tunes? As of right now more insurance companies see it as a mental disorder, but if it was changed into a biological chemical disorder, what would happen then? Would it play in our favor or go the other way?

I personally find both sides of the coin interesting to learn about. I don't think gender has any construct to being compared and sided with gender roles and I lean towards the newer studies showing gender to be a hardwired thing and thus we are born this way.
I was one of those late bloomers, a person who likes having a name to identify with what I'm feeling or have. I identified as a tom boy up until I was 24 or so because I didn't know anything about transgender at all. I just denied and assumed because I didn't know any better. I was told I was a girl and I bent and went with it.
Does that make me any less trans? I don't think so. I think it brings into question how each person reacts to different things ect. In fact, once I was told I was a girl I let it go. My parents didn't stop me from playing boy sports, being rough and tumbling with my brothers ect so I stopped thinking about it. I was happy just being a kid.
But that all changed when I hit puberty. Course I still just went along with it because, what could I do when I didn't think there was a solution for what I was feeling?

[TRyan]

Now I have an interesting question that I just thought of. What would happen if gender was scientifically proven 100% to be biological and we were born this way, would insurance companies change their tunes? As of right now more insurance companies see it as a mental disorder, but if it was changed into a biological chemical disorder, what would happen then? Would it play in our favor or go the other way?

I personally find both sides of the coin interesting to learn about. I don't think gender has any construct to being compared and sided with gender roles and I lean towards the newer studies showing gender to be a hardwired thing and thus we are born this way.
I was one of those late bloomers, a person who likes having a name to identify with what I'm feeling or have. I identified as a tom boy up until I was 24 or so because I didn't know anything about transgender at all. I just denied and assumed because I didn't know any better. I was told I was a girl and I bent and went with it.
Does that make me any less trans? I don't think so. I think it brings into question how each person reacts to different things ect. In fact, once I was told I was a girl I let it go. My parents didn't stop me from playing boy sports, being rough and tumbling with my brothers ect so I stopped thinking about it. I was happy just being a kid.
But that all changed when I hit puberty. Course I still just went along with it because, what could I do when I didn't think there was a solution for what I was feeling?

I think it would play in our favor if it was proven it was biological.

I was a late, late bloomer.  I too identified as tomboy and was most happy playing with boys---then puberty hit and things changed.  They acted differently and I started becoming acquainted with shame (although shame started happening in kindergarten) and depression. 

[Terracotta]

I don't think gender is real honestly, there's no define between where it begins and ends, it's just a generalisation.

People vary between their masculinity and femininity, physically and psychologically, not just their estrogen and testosterone levels, but the responsiveness of our genes to testosterone and estrogen. As it's well known in the trans community that feminisation or masculination varies on hormone replacement therapy amongst individuals, depending on how responsive the persons gene coding is to particular hormones.

Mental consciousness/thoughts/self-identities reach a level higher in abstraction than predisposition of gender traits, complicating things further. You can build an entirely female idea of self-identity with a brain that's completely on the male spectrum/has no real feminization - neurology studies have shown.

Homosexual men: 10% of the population, a higher degree of symmetry between both the hemispheres and more connections between the amygladya, is why homosexual men are typically more socially intelligent/aware than heterosexual men, you could consider homosexuality not to be a sexuality but apart of the transgender continuum if the reason homosexual men are the way they are - is because they have a feminisation/transgender neurological element.

And so... There's probably homosexual men with more neurological feminisation than some transgender people (autogynophillic crossdressers) - that don't have an urge to transition or choose to.

It could be interesting to find out if homosexual men experience a level of autoeroticism to their own appearance, and that staying within the male role with a feminine neurology would be an autoeroticism without construct/just a natural facet.

Some people very heavily perceive gender as apart of their reality/construct of their world, it's actually more feminine not to recognise the binary as strongly, and so that leads to a contradiction of a sort: If you have a feminised neurology you could possibly not decide to transition because you're comfortable within the male role/vice versa.

[Kara Jayde]

I don't think gender is real honestly, there's no define between where it begins and ends, it's just a generalisation.

People vary between their masculinity and femininity, physically and psychologically, not just their estrogen and testosterone levels, but the responsiveness of our genes to testosterone and estrogen. As it's well known in the trans community that feminisation or masculination varies on hormone replacement therapy amongst individuals, depending on how responsive the persons gene coding is to particular hormones.

To suggest that gender itself, on a biological level, is a 'generalization' is very strange to me. Yes, genetically, we have different predispositions to the effectiveness of testosterone and estrogen, which is genetic and has to do with an individual's genetic makeup, but that doesn't suggest that gender itself isn't real. What you seem to be saying is we take humans, who are born on a gender spectrum that falls somewhere between male and female, and then class it into two categories socially, and have built up society in this way. This is not the case, animals which reproduce sexually in the wild do not do this, nor do we. There are two biological genders. Intersex individuals develop irregularly (genetically speaking) in the womb. Mental gender identity is a different story.

Mental consciousness/thoughts/self-identities reach a level higher in abstraction than predisposition of gender traits, complicating things further. You can build an entirely female idea of self-identity with a brain that's completely on the male spectrum/has no real feminization - neurology studies have shown.

I'd love the sources on this. I have spent my entire life self-identifying as a male, most probably within a feminized brain, and let me tell you, it did nothing.

Homosexual men: 10% of the population, a higher degree of symmetry between both the hemispheres and more connections between the amygladya, is why homosexual men are typically more socially intelligent/aware than heterosexual men, you could consider homosexuality not to be a sexuality but apart of the transgender continuum if the reason homosexual men are the way they are - is because they have a feminisation/transgender neurological element.

And so... There's probably homosexual men with more neurological feminisation than some transgender people (autogynophillic crossdressers) - that don't have an urge to transition or choose to.

It could be interesting to find out if homosexual men experience a level of autoeroticism to their own appearance, and that staying within the male role with a feminine neurology would be an autoeroticism without construct/just a natural facet.

An interesting idea, but I think a lot of people (including myself) may have trouble with you saying that homosexual men are transwomen who aren't as feminine as transwomen and thus don't wish to, or feel a need to, transition (if that is what you're saying). I know many gay men who are very masculine, but love dick. I, on the other hand, a transwoman, hate dick (I'm a quote unquote dyke) so I think I'd wager it is a sexuality. Still interesting though. 

Some people very heavily perceive gender as apart of their reality/construct of their world, it's actually more feminine not to recognise the binary as strongly, and so that leads to a contradiction of a sort: If you have a feminised neurology you could possibly not decide to transition because you're comfortable within the male role/vice versa.

So because I recognize the gender binary, on a biological level, being real - now I'm less feminine. Hehe, you may want to be careful in how you word things. I think your concept of gender is too closely linked to your concept of sexuality, or at least, that's how it comes across.

[Terracotta]

To suggest that gender itself, on a biological level, is a 'generalization' is very strange to me. Yes, genetically, we have different predispositions to the effectiveness of testosterone and estrogen, which is genetic and has to do with an individual's genetic makeup, but that doesn't suggest that gender itself isn't real. What you seem to be saying is we take humans, who are born on a gender spectrum that falls somewhere between male and female, and then class it into two categories socially, and have built up society in this way. This is not the case, animals which reproduce sexually in the wild do not do this, nor do we. There are two biological genders. Intersex individuals develop irregularly (genetically speaking) in the womb. Mental gender identity is a different story.

I refer primarily to mental/neurological gender having the most weight in my generalisation - (which is the part that matters). But to a degree the physical aswell, as it interplays.

I'd love the sources on this. I have spent my entire life self-identifying as a male, most probably within a feminized brain, and let me tell you, it did nothing.

To summarise: The gynophillic transsexual brain doesn't have traits which lay on a feminine spectrum but is a masculine brain that is different from the typical male brain sample. Part of this difference is an enlargement of the part of the brain responsible for self-awareness of body/being - Which may facilitate the autoeroticism part or be caused by it (enlarging that part of the brain in response to self-affixation.)

"....Conversely, gynephilic male-to-female transsexuals also show differences in the brain from non-transsexual males, but in a unique pattern different from being shifted in a female direction...."
http://m.cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/11/2525

An interesting idea, but I think a lot of people (including myself) may have trouble with you saying that homosexual men are transwomen who aren't as feminine as transwomen and thus don't wish to, or feel a need to, transition (if that is what you're saying). I know many gay men who are very masculine, but love dick. I, on the other hand, a transwoman, hate dick (I'm a quote unquote dyke) so I think I'd wager it is a sexuality. Still interesting though. 

So because I recognize the gender binary, on a biological level, being real - now I'm less feminine. Hehe, you may want to be careful in how you word things. I think your concept of gender is too closely linked to your concept of sexuality, or at least, that's how it comes across.

I know how provocative/offensive it comes across - I'm not here to be politically correct. I'm seeking honesty/truth/clarity of perspective/discussion. Just because it's offensive doesn't instantly render the idea/thought to be false.

[rrecroc]

Greetings ......

As I look around the world, the inescapable fact that people/other species have to "pay" for the sins of others is offensive to the last degree.

I am a 64 year old male. I have always felt I should be in a female body. I've known this since I was 6 years old. Yes, you can know that early in life.

My first grade class had desks that looked like "half-tables".  They were rectangular and each one would seat two children. They were all arranged in rows, end to end (I believe there were 4 rows) except for one desk which sat at the end of two rows against the wall, facing the aisle created by the other two rows.

At this desk sat the Hunt twins ......... anything but identical.
Our teacher used to have a little game. She would send a student outside the room. She would pick another student who would hide under the desk of the Hunt sisters and then call the student back into the room to see if they could determine who was "missing".

The first time that I was placed under the Hunt's desk, I sat there and stared at their Mary Janes and pink socks and dresses and knew that's how I wanted to dress.

Soon afterward, I began to play games  etc with the girls on the playground ..... jumprope, hopscotch, etc. I enjoyed it. I was readily accepted by the girls.

However, the boys ridiculed me constantly and I had to give it up to have any peace. My first experience with the ignorance of social conditioning. I was later to discover very few people can or want to reason ...... they only want to be entertained.

I was brought up in a very restricted time. Now, you folks can go to a doctor and get hormones ....... convene and discuss things among yourselves.

When I was growing up a "queer" was a man who  "hung around public restrooms and molested boys".

If you had even suggested that you "wanted to be a member of the opposite sex", you would have been permanently labeled as crazy ....... your parents and friends would reject/ostracize you and you would probably have been assaulted numerous times. We didn't have the luxury of allowing ourselves to even consider such possibilities.

My entire life has been a screwed-up mess.

I had relationships with three absolutely wonderful women. They were all bright, selfless, compassionate, honest, hardworking and caring. However, I managed to offend or emotionally abandon them to the point they all left ....... due to an unconscious dissastisfaction with my role, I think.

My father was a violent alcoholic who terrorized his family every weekend. He would begin drinking on Friday night and not stop till Sunday night. He never touched any of his kids or told them he loved them ......... never ..... until he died.

We had to fear the assault and maybe death of our mother constantly as he picked fights when he was drunk. He would get drunk and gamble money away. We had to worry, as kids, that we would be thrown onto the streets.

We were all messed up from that.

Additionally, I later learned from my mother that he had physically beaten her when she was pregnant with me. I wonder if the stress caused hormonal changes that effected me in the womb.

As to whether these things are biological ? Yes ...... no one would choose to undergo the pain that goes with these conditions. If it is not a choice, it is biological. 

[Kade1985]

I know how provocative/offensive it comes across - I'm not here to be politically correct. I'm seeking honesty/truth/clarity of perspective/discussion. Just because it's offensive doesn't instantly render the idea/thought to be false.

With this particular statement along with the other stuff related to it... I honestly feel you OVER think the entire process and then mix sexuality with genderism and then somehow mix the two together which are never one and the same..

Seeking honesty/truth/clarity means you need to have an open mind to be right or wrong, dig for answers, and come to a conclusion. Not make one before the process even starts.

[helen2010]

Terracotta

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.   While your view has merit and it is an alternate paradigm, it is just that, a paradigm.   At this stage I favor a biological explanation for ->-bleeped-<- but recognise environment may play a part hence my interest in affect theory.   Either way paradigms change when superior insight is provided by an alternate paradigm.   Neither may be 'the truth' but both offer insight.  Further research can only help.  Knowing that I am not a fetishist, defective or tg by choice is important to me and to others.  Whether or not believing in a biological explanation is only wishful thinking time will tell but it works for me.

Aisla

[Kara Jayde]

To summarise: The gynophillic transsexual brain doesn't have traits which lay on a feminine spectrum but is a masculine brain that is different from the typical male brain sample. Part of this difference is an enlargement of the part of the brain responsible for self-awareness of body/being - Which may facilitate the autoeroticism part or be caused by it (enlarging that part of the brain in response to self-affixation.)

"....Conversely, gynephilic male-to-female transsexuals also show differences in the brain from non-transsexual males, but in a unique pattern different from being shifted in a female direction...."
http://m.cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/11/2525

I know how provocative/offensive it comes across - I'm not here to be politically correct. I'm seeking honesty/truth/clarity of perspective/discussion. Just because it's offensive doesn't instantly render the idea/thought to be false.

Alright, I retract my plea for softer language in an attempt to quell potential offense, you're right, truth is more important. I read through the study you posted, as well as several follow up studies, and my opinions on this are now varied. What you're suggesting, is essentially, that neurological gender identity relates, or at least is affected by (or perhaps affects) sexual orientation. Thus, neurologically, androphilic men should have more in common with androphilic women, than gynephilic men (general assumption).

A study that does coroberate that seems to be a study on transmen (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B007WHZsf9YfR0I2MTFWd0lFc2s/edit?pli=1). In this, white matter microstructures were studied and gynephilic transmen were shown to have brain structures which resembled masculine brains more so than feminine brains. This shows a link between sexual orientation and gendered brain structure. The same is shown in the study you posted, in which gynephilic transwomen were shown to share structural links to gynephilic men, over androphilic women. You stated that the subjects show no feminization in the brain, which is outright wrong, but perhaps you were just zealously selling the point. I thought I'd point that out for those who don't follow up and read the papers. In all the studies, trans people are shown to sit somewhere in between the two gendered brain structures, either leaning more toward one gender or the other, but never really completely within the other gender (for example, androphilic transwomen share more in common with androphilic women than gynephilic transwomen do, but all three have very different structures, androphilic transwomen do not have completely feminized brains, and do not sit in the same category as natal androphilic women). All of these studies are pre-hormones, so that may change things as well, but I suppose for the sake of this discussion that's irrelevant.

A problem I do have with the studies so far is the lack of diversity in the sample groups, which could really change things. For example, where is the study comparing androphilic men, androphilic women, androphilic transmen, and androphilic transwomen? And then the reverse (gynephilic men, women, transmen, and transwomen) and then the comparative study between both of those studies? What about bisexuality? Including these things would truly create a trans spectrum in which a lot more of this would become clear. There are certainly feminine androphilic men, but then there are also very masculine androphilic men - would they each have different brain structures that sit on opposite ends of the trans spectrum? And do I, as a gynephilic transwoman, have more in common neurologically with gynephilic men, or gynephilic women? I'd posture the latter, but there is no study yet which has attempted to have a look at this link. 

Regardless, ALL of this suggests fundamental differences in brain structure which would have a biological basis, or in the very least, biological and perhaps partially psychological. The study you posted showed differences in transwomen's putamens and thalamus', and since they are not susceptible to neurological processes (aka brain plasticity), this suggests innate biological basis for trans conditions. None of this suggests biological gender is fluid (which you said in your follow up you agreed with partially), simply that gender identity relates to sexual orientation and neurological structure and chemistry, which is very interesting in my opinion.

In the end, what I take from all this is none of these things are purely psychological, but have biological basis'. What makes me a female on the inside is more than culture, more than brain structure, and more than life events. I'm coming to realize it's probably a mixture of all three.

[peky]

the answer is YES, it is biological ! Read below a sample of the many medical publications that document the biological basis of Gender Identity Dysphoria

Dr. Peky



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Results: 1 to 20 of 45


Select item 24617977
1.


Effects of Cross-Sex Hormone Treatment on Cortical Thickness in Transsexual Individuals.


Zubiaurre-Elorza L, Junque C, Gómez-Gil E, Guillamon A.

J Sex Med. 2014 Mar 11. doi: 10.1111/jsm.12491. [Epub ahead of print]


PMID: 24617977 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

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Select item 24391851
2.


Regional grey matter structure differences between transsexuals and healthy controls--a voxel based morphometry study.


Simon L, Kozák LR, Simon V, Czobor P, Unoka Z, Szabó Á, Csukly G.

PLoS One. 2013 Dec 31;8(12):e83947. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0083947. eCollection 2013.


PMID: 24391851 [PubMed - in process] Free PMC Article

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Select item 24070909
3.


On the quest for a biomechanism of transsexualism: is there a role for BDNF?


Fuss J, Biedermann SV, Stalla GK, Auer MK.

J Psychiatr Res. 2013 Dec;47(12):2015-7. doi: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2013.08.023. Epub 2013 Sep 7.


PMID: 24070909 [PubMed - in process]

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Select item 23682909
4.


Men and women, so different, so similar: observations from cross-sex hormone treatment of transsexual subjects.


Gooren LJ, Giltay EJ.

Andrologia. 2013 May 19. doi: 10.1111/and.12111. [Epub ahead of print]


PMID: 23682909 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

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Select item 23433223
5.


Sex differences in verbal fluency during adolescence: a functional magnetic resonance imaging study in gender dysphoric and control boys and girls.


Soleman RS, Schagen SE, Veltman DJ, Kreukels BP, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Lambalk CB, Wouters F, Delemarre-van de Waal HA.

J Sex Med. 2013 Aug;10(:1969-77. doi: 10.1111/jsm.12083. Epub 2013 Feb 22.


PMID: 23433223 [PubMed - in process]

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Select item 23019350
6.


Sex differences in the neurokinin B system in the human infundibular nucleus.


Taziaux M, Swaab DF, Bakker J.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2012 Dec;97(12):E2210-20. doi: 10.1210/jc.2012-1554. Epub 2012 Sep 27.


PMID: 23019350 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Select item 22987018
7.


Intrinsic cerebral connectivity analysis in an untreated female-to-male transsexual subject: a first attempt using resting-state fMRI.


Santarnecchi E, Vatti G, Déttore D, Rossi A.

Neuroendocrinology. 2012;96(3):188-93. doi: 10.1159/000342001. Epub 2012 Sep 14.


PMID: 22987018 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free Article

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Select item 22364652
8.


Alternating gender incongruity: a new neuropsychiatric syndrome providing insight into the dynamic plasticity of brain-sex.


Case LK, Ramachandran VS.

Med Hypotheses. 2012 May;78(5):626-31. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2012.01.041. Epub 2012 Feb 22.


PMID: 22364652 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Select item 22303774
9.


Am I my brain or my genitals? A nature-culture controversy in the hermaphrodite debate from the mid-1960s to the late 1990s.


Kraus C.

Gesnerus. 2011;68(1):80-106.


PMID: 22303774 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Select item 21618223
10.


Galanin neurons in the intermediate nucleus (InM) of the human hypothalamus in relation to sex, age, and gender identity.


Garcia-Falgueras A, Ligtenberg L, Kruijver FP, Swaab DF.

J Comp Neurol. 2011 Oct 15;519(15):3061-84. doi: 10.1002/cne.22666.


PMID: 21618223 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Select item 21503817
11.


Puberty suppression in a gender-dysphoric adolescent: a 22-year follow-up.


Cohen-Kettenis PT, Schagen SE, Steensma TD, de Vries AL, Delemarre-van de Waal HA.

Arch Sex Behav. 2011 Aug;40(4):843-7. doi: 10.1007/s10508-011-9758-9. Epub 2011 Apr 19.


PMID: 21503817 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free PMC Article

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[TheQuestion]

I don't know.  Sometimes I think I'm crazy, then I realize I'm just terribly frustrated.  Other times I feel like life experiences, the simple way things have played out in my life from the teenage years until now may have lead to it.  However, I know that for as long as I can really remember there has been this creeping dissociation between my brain and body.  Over time it seems to have gotten stronger and stronger.   
I didn't always feel this way, or, that is to say that I was too naïve to really know the realities of ->-bleeped-<-, or maybe still that I didn't know it would get this bad. 

As a little kid I was introduced to the same things any young boy would be exposed to.   I was obsessed with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mortal Kombat, Marvel + DC, Star Wars - and a myriad of other "boys things."  I played sports.  I did pretty much anything any regular boy would do.  I guess that I sort of let the outward persona that I was creating cloud the reality of my situation. 

As I grew older, I began to realize distinct differences between men and women, not necessarily bodily, but in terms of personality and world view.  Despite my male socialization, not having known any GLBT people growing up, being totally sane (for the most part), and knowing what I am physically has not changed the simple feeling of displacement and now detachment from the world.  I don't want to be trans, and for the most part have forced myself into denying it for almost my entire life.  I can honestly say that I didn't choose to be this way. 

It could be biological I suppose; and I've always had a feeling (not that it means much) that it was.  I read recently that due to testosterone exposer while still in the womb, men will normally develop a longer ring finger than index, and vice-versa for women.  I believe it also said that transwomen normally have a female finger ratio.  I've looked at my hands and the pointer is easily longer than the index.  I've also been looking at the hands of most everybody lately and have realized that I really don't ever see a man with a longer pointer finger, at best they seem to be even.  In-fact, I haven't noticed any with noticeably longer pointer fingers.  That could be big considering brain receptors, pathways and all, also masculinize due to testosterone while in the womb...

Really, all I can truly say for sure is that when it comes right down to it... I have no clue.

[helen2010]

Peky

Appreciate the comprehensive contribution.  Looks like I have a little reading to do!

Sincere thanks

Aisla

[Ltl89]

I don't know.  I hear so many assert that it is biological and there is data to back that up, but isn't it possible that these things "could" have a different source?  Maybe it's biological for someone, maybe not for others.  I guess I'm at a loss.  It seems hard for me to understand myself and how I came to be me.  These feelings have been with me at a young age, but could my socialization have something to do with that?  Did growing up with overly controlling people and facing a lot of the things that I was subjected to make me who I am in some way? In many ways, I think it played a major role and probably is the source of much of my self esteem issues and my general fear of other people. But then that doesn't explain if that was the origin of my gender feelings either.  I'm not sure.  Either way, I'm me.  Messed up LTL and that's okay.  All I know is these feelings have been with me for a long time and haven't gone away no matter how hard I tried to make them disappear.  It is what it is.  I just wish I could understand her sometimes and get her to control her feelings and not care so much about everyone elses to such an insane level. 

[Jill F]

My drunkle said it was the work of the devil.   

I mean, right?  I tried to sell my soul to be a famous rock star and THIS is what I got instead?

LOL

[rrecroc]

And Who Really Creates the Problems We Have To Deal With ??

Who Usually Creates Most of Your Problems ??

What If : Nobody noticed/cared who you had sex with (male, female,trans, or whatever) and how many you had sex with ......

And ...... Nobody cared how you dressed and what you looked like ......

What If ?? , you were raised to believe any combination of the above factors was normal ......

Would you still have a problem ??