Why are we like this?

[TRyan]

I'm curious as to why we are transgender?  Is it biological? 

I ask because years ago I had a therapist tell me it was not real and reflected a psychological problem.  I'm also preparing to come out to people and want to figure this out.

I should know this already but I don't. I've spent the past decade trying to pretend it doesn't exist and stuffing my feelings down.

[Jessica Merriman]

Gender Dysphoria used to be listed as a mental disorder under the title Gender Identity Disorder. Not to long ago it was changed as controversies like the drug DES (Diethylstilbestrol), theories like the Neurons firing into the Amygdala from the Medulla differing in males and females and others came into play. MRIs are showing differing activity in the brain as well showing activity of the opposite sex. I think we will find a definitive answer in the near future that proves it is biological and not mental. This is my opinion of why we are like we are.

[Jenny07]

From what I've read and seen there are real differences in the brains of men and women. MTFs display typical female brains while FTM have male brains. Unfortunately this can only be seen after death and taking slices of the brain.
Belief is that a hormone imbalance for whatever reason during pregnancy is the cause of this. It could be from various sources as Jessica mentioned and it is not a mental or lifestyle choice. It is much deeper.

If this is the truth then it does explain a lot and no matter how hard we fight, there is a real reason for the way we feel and yes most of us are born this way and realised from a very early age.

Jen

[SilverGirl]

i disagree that it's biological, to me it's actually much more simple, we just go with whatever pleases us, in my case i love having a feminine appearance and being referred to as the female gender, amongst other things, but i think gender is a social construct

the thing is that society created gender roles, with actions, appearance, mannerisms, etc, that are suitable for those labeled as male and female, and after someone is born they get assigned the male or female label based on whether they were born with a penis or a vagina, and that's it, the person is not allowed to choose which one they prefer (or if they prefer neither or both), and they are expected to accept it, if they don't, they get labeled as having a disorder or a mental problem for not conforming to the majority, everyone is born genderless, gender is learned

gender roles are also destructive to cis people, if they like something that belongs to the other gender, they are made fun of and prejudiced against

i don't think there would be any biological element is there? is there anything biological that defines our tastes? for me it is a matter of what we identify as, of what we want

changing it to gender dysphoria hasn't done much good, being different is still considered bad, a disease, a disorder, apparently we can't just prefer belonging to the other gender (since apparently that's crazy, no one would ever want that right?), also, the treatments didn't change (at least not here), and then there is a lot of red tape to change OUR bodies, to me it just seems like bigotry and prejudice against gender diversity, much like being homosexual was before, now they just need to get over that transgender people are normal too

[Jessica Merriman]

If this is the truth then it does explain a lot and no matter how hard we fight, there is a real reason for the way we feel and yes most of us are born this way and realised from a very early age.

Couldn't agree more Jen! I mean who would do this on a whim and lose and suffer all we do? Sure isn't for kicks!

[TRyan]

Couldn't agree more Jen! I mean who would do this on a whim and lose and suffer all we do? Sure isn't for kicks!

Totally-who would go through all of this for kicks. 

There has to be something biological. What you both have said makes sense. 

I've been fighting this my whole life. I thought I had it all stuffed away but then developed a chronic illness.

I'm over 45 so I still carry a ton of internalized gender stuff/shame. One would think that not acting like our birth gender was akin to being serial killers.

I'm interested in all ideas so I can be armed for when I tell my family (which I'm terrified to do).  Luckily I'm not dependent on them financially because I know I will be disowned.   

[Jessica Merriman]

i disagree that it's biological

Prove it. I have empirical test data on my side, do you?

Ryan I used to think everyone felt like I did just dealt with it better than me. That caused a ton of self doubt, shame and guilt. Was I ever relieved when I discovered all the medical indications of biological causes.

I thought the same thing about losing family and friends, but in todays society it is so different from when I grew up. I was shocked at the acceptance I received and support that was shown. It is a new day and even though we still have a long way to go we are much better off today than 20 or 30 years ago. Don't make the mistake of pre judging their responses as it will make coming out so much harder and it will balloon to epic proportions. Don't do that to yourself. We are asking others for open mindedness be sure you go into it the same way.

[xponentialshift]

Couldn't agree more Jen! I mean who would do this on a whim and lose and suffer all we do? Sure isn't for kicks!

If someone cis were to undergo hrt on a whim they would suffer severe anxiety and depression within an hour or two, and it won't go away until they stop the hormones. So they would basically feel like we feel before going on hormones.
There are actual documented cases of cis men getting E to treat prostate cancer and having the terrible reactions I just mentioned.

That all pretty much comes from what my therapist told me yesterday.

That's why they call HRT diagnosis by treatment. If it is wrong we feel terrible if it is right we feel relaxed and relieved. All with a day or two but usually the first few hours. My therapist says she has never heard of a "neutral" reaction to HRT in the 40ish years she has been researching it.

[Jenny07]

Just remember we were born this way and it is not a choice, for me at least.

Try searching the web for Born this way video which is interesting.

It confronts people about their beliefs and prejudice about GLBT's. Most think it is a choice until they are asked when they decided to be straight. Pause, a few pained expressions and then bingo.
They change their tune very quickly and is funny to watch the penny drop.

Good luck as it is terrifying.

Hugs
Jen

[SilverGirl]

Prove it. I have empirical test data on my side, do you?

i'd be interested in seeing it, as i don't understand how could something biological define things that we like or identify as that are considered male or female things by society, at least that's my take on it

[Jessica Merriman]

Study Diethylstilbestrol Hormone and it's effects on male births and the study of the Bed Nuclei of the Striates Terminalis (Post Mortem). They are all over the web. Those are not the only studies at the moment, but the top two.

[Kara Jayde]

I really don't understand the 'gender is a social construct' camp at all, are you for real? Take a bio 101 class and it becomes pretty clear how silly that argument is. There are deep genetic biological differences between the sexes, and the gender cultural that has built up around each gender was constructed as a reflection of those biological differences, not the other way around. Somebody didn't just decide that there were two genders  read a book about what it is to be an alpha male from a purely animalistic perspective, and then recall that we are just highly cognitive animals. Our behaviour is an extrapolation of behaviour you see in the wild.

Or are the gender differences between chimps and other animals social constructs as well? *sigh*

Sorry if that sounds bitchy, I'm just don't understand the argument at all. Gender Dysphoria is certainly a real disorder, and I would like it acknowledged as one, why the hell would I wake up and just 'want' to do this? You said that you just prefer feminine stuff and that's a choice, sure, but have you questioned why you prefer feminine stuff on a deep subconscious level? 

[SilverGirl]

Study Diethylstilbestrol Hormone and it's effects on male births and the study of the Bed Nuclei of the Striates Terminalis (Post Mortem). They are all over the web. Those are not the only studies at the moment, but the top two.

i'll take a look in a moment, but it may take some time since it seems a bit complicated and i'm doing other things right now as well

to me though, it seems to reinforce that being trans* is something that was caused by something, and not the case of an individual simply identifying more with other things that are considered either for males or for females defined by society, can it not be the case?

also, does this study also count for female to male transsexuals? are they also caused by a similar hormone or something like that? what about non-binary gender people? would this also count for transsexuals of ancient civilizations and other countries? the quick googling i did (although i didn't open it yet, just read the search preview) says that it was prescribed to women from 1938 to 1971

[Edge]

My biological psychology professor actually covered the biological reasons for transsexualism in class which I thought was pretty cool. As has been said, current studies suggest that hormones during fetal development cause our brains to develop as the gender we identify as. Humans brains are sexually dimorphic. He also covered the fact that there is no evidence of gender roles having a biological basis.
Yes, studies have been done on FtMs and shown the same evidence (just the other direction).

[Kara Jayde]

My biological psychology professor actually covered the biological reasons for transsexualism in class which I thought was pretty cool. As has been said, current studies suggest that hormones during fetal development cause our brains to develop as the gender we identify as. Humans brains are sexually dimorphic. He also covered the fact that there is no evidence of gender roles having a biological basis.
Yes, studies have been done on FtMs and shown the same evidence (just the other direction).

Thanks for that information, do you know what the sources on that would be? I'd like to compile some information on the biological basis of GID. Also, I agree that there is no evidence for gender roles themselves having a biological basis, but that doesn't suggest that gender roles which do spring up for whatever reason are culturally defined. They are, instead, defined by the process of adaptation - whatever works at the time to allow for survival becomes reinforced, and thus gender culture begins to spring up. Especially in dimorphic species. There is also the possibilities of sexual selection early on, which may have led to a lot of our gender differences before our brains became as developed as they are.

I recommend the book 'The Red Queen' for those interested in gender differences from a biological basis throughout the animal kingdom. http://www.amazon.com/The-Red-Queen-Evolution-Nature/dp/0060556579

[Jessica Merriman]

to me though, it seems to reinforce that being trans* is something that was caused by something, and not the case of an individual simply identifying more with other things that are considered either for males or for females defined by society, can it not be the case?

Who would choose the things we have to do to be the real us? The urge to transition makes some of us give up everything we had. My Endo even warned me that "E" could change my gender preference. Why? Because I would chemically be drawn and respond differently to smells, tastes, colors and other biological causes. Talk to any Endo if you would like proof of that. Why do certain things cause an allergic reaction? Chemical imbalances and tolerances, that's why. Same thing with being transgendered. My doctor took me off of 12 daily meds for health issue's. It seems my body (chemically) doesn't respond correctly with "T" in my system. That's pretty conclusive to me.

[SilverGirl]

I really don't understand the 'gender is a social construct' camp at all, are you for real? Take a bio 101 class and it becomes pretty clear how silly that argument is. There are deep genetic biological differences between the sexes, and the gender cultural that has built up around each gender was constructed as a reflection of those biological differences, not the other way around. Somebody didn't just decide that there were two genders  read a book about what it is to be an alpha male from a purely animalistic perspective, and then recall that we are just highly cognitive animals. Our behaviour is an extrapolation of behaviour you see in the wild.

how does the genetic biological differences define what someone born male or female should do, wear, how they should act and etc? it seems more like these were traditions that changed countless times in societies, and also vary depending on the society itself, so why would gender be biological and not social?

what i'm trying to understand is that why must our sex and gender role match, and that if it doesn't, its then treated as a disorder? is diversity not allowed?

Or are the gender differences between chimps and other animals social constructs as well? *sigh*

do chimps define what they are supposed to like if they are male or female? or does their biology does it? i do not know much about animal behavior, but they do not have society and culture like we do, which as soon as someone is born it is teached to them to like blue or pink depending on their sex, and treats everything different as wrong or mental problem

Sorry if that sounds bitchy, I'm just don't understand the argument at all. Gender Dysphoria is certainly a real disorder, and I would like it acknowledged as one, why the hell would I wake up and just 'want' to do this? You said that you just prefer feminine stuff and that's a choice, sure, but have you questioned why you prefer feminine stuff on a deep subconscious level?

i didn't say i choose, i didn't choose to like computer games, i just like them, they please me, i didn't choose to like being female, i just like it, it pleases me, i didn't choose to not like being a male, it does not please me, so if i don't like things that males are "supposed" to like, i have a disorder? am i not allowed to be different? what about tomboys or feminine men? are those a disorder too? is they behavior caused by hormones?

i could question why i prefer anything at a deep subconscious level, and by having it as a disorder, makes it easier for there still be a stigma and prejudice to being trans*

[Jessica Merriman]

I would suggest enrolling in a Biology class at your local college or school because I see a deep lack of understanding on Biology and it's effects on the body. Genetic Biology plays a direct role in how a subject acts. How else could you explain how lower life forms know when and how to mate? Take the class and then come back and defend your position intellectually.

[SilverGirl]

I would suggest enrolling in a Biology class at your local college or school because I see a deep lack of understanding on Biology and it's effects on the body. Genetic Biology plays a direct role in how a subject acts. How else could you explain how lower life forms know when and how to mate? Take the class and then come back and defend your position intellectually.

fine then, though i would appreciate if you could explain where and why i'm wrong since me and my therapist usually talk about this subject, and i'll be able to have a better talk with her next time i go there

[TRyan]

Who would choose the things we have to do to be the real us? The urge to transition makes some of us give up everything we had. My Endo even warned me that "E" could change my gender preference. Why? Because I would chemically be drawn and respond differently to smells, tastes, colors and other biological causes. Talk to any Endo if you would like proof of that. Why do certain things cause an allergic reaction? Chemical imbalances and tolerances, that's why. Same thing with being transgendered. My doctor took me off of 12 daily meds for health issue's. It seems my body (chemically) doesn't respond correctly with "T" in my system. That's pretty conclusive to me.

That is pretty conclusive Jessica and amazing. So you're health issues improved now that you're on "E"?   

Oh, and excellent point about being open minded towards my family possibly being open minded towards me.

I agree that the amount of suffering we have to go through to live who we are is not something we would choose