What's the point in transitioning if you can't transition really young? rant. tw

[sad panda]

Babe, your 22. That's not remotely old and you have so much to look forward to.
In regards to your point about de-transition making you look younger, it may not. Skin becomes thicker, you may develop acne, you may develop a male hairline, all of these things will move you further from boy and more to man. Just some food for thought.

I got past believing I could ever look like a man though. I mean because of bone structure. Basically my head is too small, esp my jaw, and then my body. I hit this point as a boy where to other people, i just stopped aging, even though my skin was getting worse. I'm not sure what would happen with my skin but i think I probably would look weird, yeah. Actually I did look weird. I know that now looking at old pictures. So weird how you don't see yourself clearly for a long time...

Ok...a little perspective is needed here.  A bunch of people in their late teens and early 20's talking about being old, and saying that 25 is too old to transition.  Seriously?

A while back I was talking to my dad and realized that I'll be his age 40 years from now.  He's 74, he just moved to Mexico cause he wanted to, he travels like a crazy person, takes up new hobbies, and is constantly finding new adventures.  And he's still not done yet.  That's when I realized that life is only short when you're looking back.  Looking ahead, life is long.  And a lot will happen in 40+ years.

Panda, I get that you feel a sense of loss.  But those of us who choose to be positive aren't denying the tough position the universe put us in.  We're just choosing to make the best of it and move on instead of dwelling in the pain and letting it cripple us.

Sometimes I wish I had transitioned earlier in life.  But I've still got a lot of living to do.  So I can wallow in self pity, or I can enjoy what time I have left.  I choose the latter.

I guess I'm just trying to understand what people get out of transition.

I don't believe it's transition or die. I don't believe there isn't a choice. There are people here who transition at 70. If you can live to 70 you can live to whenever without transitioning. But if you think about it it gets worse,  just like thinking about my age dysphoria makes it worse...

But, again, I did not have the same dysphoria so maybe that's why it's not making sense. sorry.

[sad panda]

But to everyone saying life doesn't end at 30...

I'm not saying it ends for everyone at 30. I'm saying it gets a lot worse for people living as women around then, and the longer they have been living as women the worse it is.

If a cis girl is not a mother, married, or seriously dating at 30 she's probably starting to get pretty anxious. Cause the longer she spends without being needed or committed to by someone, the less viable she is, the less she means to anyone, and it diminishes fast from there. I'm not saying it's universal but honestly for most girls, there is a huge need to be connected to other people, and when your friends all have their own families to be busy with... well, yeah.

I don't see why trans women are an exception if they get the same socialization, especially becuase they can't be a biological mother and they have a restricted dating pool...

[Mermaid]

Well, it's bad enough when you feel bad about yourself, but when you hit 30ish and stop being valuable to other people too it's got to hurt. As a young girl, yeah, chances are you feel ugly but you might at least know somebody wants you.... in your 30s and beyond, well hopefully you have kids to be needed by or a really exciting lifestyle, or you'll probably be feeling pretty empty.

Okay, I more or less get what you're trying to say, but... it makes no sense. Please seriously think about it. You're looking at age as a qualitative adjective, when in reality it's more of a quantitive one. You don't have your age stamped on your forehead, other people don't need to know. You can even lie about it, it's that irrelevant.

If someone I thought was attractive suddenly told me they were 35, I'd still believe my eyes and the age thing wouldn't alter my perception of said person. You're either appealing or you're not, age is one of the most irrelevant factors in determining what you're attracted to... specially because you can't see someone's age with your eyes.

Try to do an exercise where you guess how old people are. You'll see that it's actually very hard... at least for me, I think some people look old, some people look young, but ultimately it's very hard for me to figure out exactly how old someone is, and often I've been surprised at how much my answer was off by.

There are several factors that determine how old someone looks. Facial features are one of them and can be very elusive, since they typically don't change... it's not just about the "skin", which I don't think ages that fast... the average person won't worry about it until they're 35+, and who knows how many more surgeries will be around by then to rejuvenate your looks.

I don't get what you mean by "valuable" to other people. If you're speaking about guys, they literally don't care how old you are. They care how good you look. They're that simple. Truly. My best friend is my age and his girlfriend is 33 or whatever. If you're speaking about friends, I don't think they'll care about your age either. If someone's good for being a friend at 20, why're they not good for being a friend once they're 30?

Try to think rationally about it and not despair about age, you're just bringing yourself unnecessary grief, really. You cannot interfere with getting older, nobody can, but you can act on how good you look.

Furthermore, it's impossible to say that 20-year-old girls look better than 30-year-old girls. Because there's millions of them and it's such an abstract concept... I'm sure that if you were to line them up together, picking out who's pretty and who's not would depend solely on them being pretty or not, which is mostly dependant on their facial features, clothes, hair (which do not change with age, unless you're putting 50-year-olds next to 20-year-olds, and even then... my mom is 49 and she doesn't look it one bit, I consider her pretty). In the end, your "pretty girls" sample would have girls of all ages. What a surprise, huh.

[sad panda]

Okay, I more or less get what you're trying to say, but... it makes no sense. Please seriously think about it. You're looking at age as a qualitative adjective, when in reality it's more of a quantitive one. You don't have your age stamped on your forehead, other people don't need to know. You can even lie about it, it's that irrelevant.

If someone I thought was attractive suddenly told me they were 35, I'd still believe my eyes and the age thing wouldn't alter my perception of said person. You're either appealing or you're not, age is one of the most irrelevant factors in determining what you're attracted to... specially because you can't see someone's age with your eyes.

Try to do an exercise where you guess how old people are. You'll see that it's actually very hard... at least for me, I think some people look old, some people look young, but ultimately it's very hard for me to figure out exactly how old someone is, and often I've been surprised at how much my answer was off by.

There are several factors that determine how old someone looks. Facial features are one of them and can be very elusive, since they typically don't change... it's not just about the "skin", which I don't think ages that fast... the average person won't worry about it until they're 35+, and who knows how many more surgeries will be around by then to rejuvenate your looks.

I don't get what you mean by "valuable" to other people. If you're speaking about guys, they literally don't care how old you are. They care how good you look. They're that simple. Truly. My best friend is my age and his girlfriend is 33 or whatever. If you're speaking about friends, I don't think they'll care about your age either. If someone's good for being a friend at 20, why're they not good for being a friend once they're 30?

Try to think rationally about it and not despair about age, you're just bringing yourself unnecessary grief, really. You cannot interfere with getting older, nobody can, but you can act on how good you look.

Furthermore, it's impossible to say that 20-year-old girls look better than 30-year-old girls. Because there's millions of them and it's such an abstract concept... I'm sure that if you were to line them up together, picking out who's pretty and who's not would depend solely on them being pretty or not, which is mostly dependant on their facial features, clothes, hair (which do not change with age, unless you're putting 50-year-olds next to 20-year-olds, and even then... my mom is 49 and she doesn't look it one bit, I consider her pretty). In the end, your "pretty girls" sample would have girls of all ages. What a surprise, huh.

Actually it's not about being a pretty girl. It's about where the bar is set. Around 20, most girls are considered pretty and viable just for being female. In the 30s, you have to be more and more on the pretty end of normal. Most girls are not especially pretty, like you said. And even the prettiest trans girls can struggle with being conventionally pretty compared to cis girls..I mean in the sense of being attractive to partners who prefer women.

So if you're not pretty, not a mom, not married, and trans, which makes all those things harder to achieve.. then what do you have in life in your 30s? Maybe you can make it work but you are seriously disadvantaged because people want prettier girls than you. Most trans women in their 30s with a spouse, a decent job or children got those living as a man,

[kelly_aus]

I got past believing I could ever look like a man though. I mean because of bone structure. Basically my head is too small, esp my jaw, and then my body. I hit this point as a boy where to other people, i just stopped aging, even though my skin was getting worse. I'm not sure what would happen with my skin but i think I probably would look weird, yeah. Actually I did look weird. I know that now looking at old pictures. So weird how you don't see yourself clearly for a long time...

I guess I'm just trying to understand what people get out of transition.

I don't believe it's transition or die. I don't believe there isn't a choice. There are people here who transition at 70. If you can live to 70 you can live to whenever without transitioning. But if you think about it it gets worse,  just like thinking about my age dysphoria makes it worse...

But, again, I did not have the same dysphoria so maybe that's why it's not making sense. sorry.

The experiences of trans people are not all the same..

For example, my dysphoria was fairly minor for most of my life, I had a feeling of wrongness and an understanding of what the cause was, but I was never pushed to do anything.. Until someone I barely knew called me out on it. And then my house of cards fell down and I realised just how bad I really did feel.. And how liberating the idea of finally being myself was.. And it was at that point I knew I no longer had a choice about my future.

What have I gotten out of transition? A life where I'm comfortable in who I am and how I'm seen by the world. A life where I'm respected and valued by the people I care about.

[Tori]

Just curious... Why did you pick the username, "Sad Panda"?

[sad panda]

The experiences of trans people are not all the same..

For example, my dysphoria was fairly minor for most of my life, I had a feeling of wrongness and an understanding of what the cause was, but I was never pushed to do anything.. Until someone I barely knew called me out on it. And then my house of cards fell down and I realised just how bad I really did feel.. And how liberating the idea of finally being myself was.. And it was at that point I knew I no longer had a choice about my future.

What have I gotten out of transition? A life where I'm comfortable in who I am and how I'm seen by the world. A life where I'm respected and valued by the people I care about.

Thank you. I'm glad that it ended up being worth it for you!

Just curious... Why did you pick the username, "Sad Panda"?

Because I am a sad panda o.o

[Tori]

Then, how on Earth do you type?

[Tori]

This thread became a THING Ladies!!!!

Heh.

We can do it.

[V M]

Hi friends 

Time to take a break and settle down a bit

Topic locked

Thank you

V M

[Nero]

Actually it's not about being a pretty girl. It's about where the bar is set. Around 20, most girls are considered pretty and viable just for being female. In the 30s, you have to be more and more on the pretty end of normal. Most girls are not especially pretty, like you said. And even the prettiest trans girls can struggle with being conventionally pretty compared to cis girls..I mean in the sense of being attractive to partners who prefer women.

So if you're not pretty, not a mom, not married, and trans, which makes all those things harder to achieve.. then what do you have in life in your 30s? Maybe you can make it work but you are seriously disadvantaged because people want prettier girls than you. Most trans women in their 30s with a spouse, a decent job or children got those living as a man,

This is true to a certain extent. And honestly, if a beautiful woman came into a room looking really young and said she was 35, nobody would care as in they might still want her and everything. But there's a reason women hate to tell their age.

Anyway, sad panda, I feel really bad for having ever talked about this. With this whole 'old at 25' thing, I was trying to describe something women go through. Something I went through. I never meant to make anyone feel bad. There is still life after 30! (well, I wasn't a woman then, so I don't know. but I'm sure there is)

Edit: looks like the topic ended up locked but anyway, I really hope I didn't make you feel this bad sad panda.