If you were DES exposed what is your trans experience/ characteristics?

[Satinjoy]

I got creamed by this drug, used to treat miscarriages in massive doses.  As known publicly here I believe it changed my endo and my  central nervous system to fully female.  Without the DES debate and medical stuff, what is your trans experience?  Not pinning it back to DES, but what do you feel?

No what does DES do here please or medical stuff. We have that other places here on Susans. Just --what is your trans experience?

Heres mine:

Born effeminate.  Earliest id with female physical feelings - still in a crib looking up.  Thank you therapy for unlocking that one.  Vague though.

Early- female bone structure, could do nothing with a ball, withdrawn, isolated.  Totally inadequate as a boy.  Extremely effeminate.

Mid school- hell on earth. Could not tell externally if boy or girl.  Saw girl in the mirror not a guy.  Extreme abuse by peers.  More withdrawn.  Decided to create a male coping personality to prove it untrue.  And every day for 5-6 years every time I walked into a room they called me a fa--ot.    .   Fractured my mind a bit, but I became very tough.  And bitter.

Intensely attracted to girls.

Minor crossdressing begins.  Realized body had female sex needs.

Went out for wrestling and became a terror on the mats in high school.  Name calling stopped.  Team would have torn them to peices.

Started drinking, lost virginity to blond bombshell and intended to marry her.  Fetishistic and female sex drive still large.

Went down the tubes on booze.  Lost the blond.

Gays went after me, started to crossdress under clothes at gay bars, would screw anyone that moved if I was drunk.  Discovered pot and amyl nitrate and got hooked on both.

Moved to NYC and it got worse.

Got sober and figured out emotional attractions were to women and physical was wired female.  Started purging.

Showed up at an AA meeting in a dress.   They told me I needed a better wig and didn't even blink.  No more excuses for drinking.

Purged and got married to a real beauty.  Will do anything to keep her.

Purged 50 times.  Female side got stronger, fetishistic side got stronger.  Still see a girl in the mirror, hate my face because I always see her.  Still into male things to escape pain, racing car amatuer or kart professionally, blow them up movies, anything to get out.

Got BPS at 55, found out what finesteride was, secretly found out about Susan's.  Cracked and tried to physician steer into hormones after researching who was trans friendly.  Told my best friend and kids.  Best friend did not reject so I survived.

Still no desire to present female outside the house.

Endo sends me to therapy.  Discovery begins.

Misidentified as characteristic of many auto G things and outside of Benjamin standards.  No FTE.

Gets hormone letter, clearly needed.

Remaining fetishist and other stuff becomes different, healthy, less intense.  Mirror stuff stops cold.  Continue to strip away to find a female physical center and a non male non female psychological center that morphs depending on how I am dressed and who I am with.  No act either, the three presentations are totally genuine.  One to survive, one to adapt and maintain family relationships, and one to be real.

No labels fit.  Its not about the clothes.  Its self perception and physical wiring.

Big risk to take here on Susans, to bare all.  I am so desperate to be accepted and finally not alone that I would do anything to be who you all want me to be.  Just like I did in 6th grade, forming a personality to be accepted.

I'm not going to do that.  I am stronger than that I am a transwoman, just with added features mentally.

My dysphoria concerning my body and feelings is acute.  But I can handle the male disguise with total ease.  But not below the neck, the presentation line.  That I need totally female.  The male disguise is to keep the assho.. s from doing that fa..et thing again, I would absolutely see red and tear them to peices if that word is ever used on me again.  No muscle strength anymore or not.

Did I mention in addition to severe alcoholism the anxiety and intense driven thing - largely removed by HRT?

The wiring, having estrogen receptors in my brain (I am told most men do not have them or get sick on estrogen), the attraction to my own body, the dual sexual orientation - one is repressed I am married and faithful but I wish my wife would ravage me - the bone structure, the node on my left testicle, the preop status and ok with that, all are DES traits.  So is indentifying as a third sex, neither fully male nor fully female psychologically, rather some kind of blending.

And I am a she not a he -physically, and all the time.  Psychologically - depends on the environment.   DES makes me feel like I dont fully fit, even in here, because I am not even normal for a TS.  And I am TS not CD.  No judgment there, but I don't seem to have those characteristics. 

There are others here on the board like me.  Anyone want to let it out?  We can cry together later, because this thing hurts.  It started as an involuntary womb conversion and became ... me.

But if asked I am a transwoman, and I know darn well this could be progressive, and it scares the living crap out of me.

I hope I don't regret posting this, but I believe in having the guts to be real.  I hope I didn't just alienate everyone I hold so dear in here.  It would utterly crush me, but I have to know, am I the only one like this?  I know of one other.... 

[Jill F]

I got creamed by this drug, used to treat miscarriages in massive doses.  As known publicly here I believe it changed my endo and my  central nervous system to fully female.  Without the DES debate and medical stuff, what is your trans experience?  Not pinning it back to DES, but what do you feel?

No what does DES do here please or medical stuff. We have that other places here on Susans. Just --what is your trans experience?

Heres mine:

Born effeminate.  Earliest id with female physical feelings - still in a crib looking up.  Thank you therapy for unlocking that one.  Vague though.
Yes.  Wanted to wear girls' clothes when I was 4.  Got first of many lectures about "what is appropriate for boys".

Early- female bone structure, could do nothing with a ball, withdrawn, isolated.  Totally inadequate as a boy.  Extremely effeminate.
Yes.  Sucked mightily at sports.  Grew up watching sports and still follow them.

Mid school- hell on earth. Could not tell externally if boy or girl.  Saw girl in the mirror not a guy.  Extreme abuse by peers.  More withdrawn.  Decided to create a male coping personality to prove it untrue.  And every day for 5-6 years every time I walked into a room they called me a fa--ot.    .   Fractured my mind a bit, but I became very tough.  And bitter.
Had moobs, later puberty than most, got my ass kicked almost daily.  Didn't toughen up until high school.

Intensely attracted to girls.
Yes. Confused jealousy for attraction as well.  Sorta exploring the whole bi/pan angle now.

Minor crossdressing begins.  Realized body had female sex needs.
Didn't cross that line, but OMG did I want to!

Went out for wrestling and became a terror on the mats in high school.  Name calling stopped.  Team would have torn them to peices.
Never played sports for real.  Being big and strong (got gym membership at 15) helped at pickup football games.

Started drinking, lost virginity to blond bombshell and intended to marry her.  Fetishistic and female sex drive still large.
Drugs and alcohol at 15/16.  Virginity at 17.  Redhead though... Who knows what really turned me on?  I was 17 and it was always hard.

Went down the tubes on booze.  Lost the blond.
I was a pretty seasoned drinker at 17.  Lost the redhead, got a blond.

Gays went after me, started to crossdress under clothes at gay bars, would screw anyone that moved if I was drunk.  Discovered pot and amyl nitrate and got hooked on both.
Never set foot in a gay bar until I was 22.  Didn't know it was a gay bar at first.  Now I go on purpose.

Moved to NYC and it got worse.

Got sober and figured out emotional attractions were to women and physical was wired female.  Started purging.
Nope

Showed up at an AA meeting in a dress.   They told me I needed a better wig and didn't even blink.  No more excuses for drinking.

Purged and got married to a real beauty.  Will do anything to keep her.
My beautiful wife of 20 years is still with me. 

Purged 50 times.  Female side got stronger, fetishistic side got stronger.  Still see a girl in the mirror, hate my face because I always see her.  Still into male things to escape pain, racing car amatuer or kart professionally, blow them up movies, anything to get out.
Overcompensated in a lot of ways, but never had anything to purge.

Got BPS at 55, found out what finesteride was, secretly found out about Susan's.  Cracked and tried to physician steer into hormones after researching who was trans friendly.  Told my best friend and kids.  Best friend did not reject so I survived.
Came out to wife, a friend, therapy and finasteride at 43.

Still no desire to present female outside the house.
My therapist double dog dared me to show up in a dress last February.  Challenge accepted!

Endo sends me to therapy.  Discovery begins.
Therapist sent me to endo last January.  Turned out estrogen was the best drug I ever did.

Misidentified as characteristic of many auto G things and outside of Benjamin standards.  No FTE.

Gets hormone letter, clearly needed.

Remaining fetishist and other stuff becomes different, healthy, less intense.  Mirror stuff stops cold.  Continue to strip away to find a female physical center and a non male non female psychological center that morphs depending on how I am dressed and who I am with.  No act either, the three presentations are totally genuine.  One to survive, one to adapt and maintain family relationships, and one to be real.

No labels fit.  Its not about the clothes.  Its self perception and physical wiring.

Big risk to take here on Susans, to bare all.  I am so desperate to be accepted and finally not alone that I would do anything to be who you all want me to be.  Just like I did in 6th grade, forming a personality to be accepted.

I'm not going to do that.  I am stronger than that I am a transwoman, just with added features mentally.

My dysphoria concerning my body and feelings is acute.  But I can handle the male disguise with total ease.  But not below the neck, the presentation line.  That I need totally female.  The male disguise is to keep the assho.. s from doing that fa..et thing again, I would absolutely see red and tear them to peices if that word is ever used on me again.  No muscle strength anymore or not.
Went full time last March.  Hated presenting male anyway.

Did I mention in addition to severe alcoholism the anxiety and intense driven thing - largely removed by HRT?
Yep.  Anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol abuse out the window.  Can't drink for sh^t anymore.  That's probably a good thing considering trying to drink myself to death twice in a month while trying to come to grips with this thing.
The wiring, having estrogen receptors in my brain (I am told most men do not have them or get sick on estrogen), the attraction to my own body, the dual sexual orientation - one is repressed I am married and faithful but I wish my wife would ravage me - the bone structure, the node on my left testicle, the preop status and ok with that, all are DES traits.  So is indentifying as a third sex, neither fully male nor fully female psychologically, rather some kind of blending.
Yes, if estrogen doesn't make you feel better, you're probably not trans.  Oh, you have a thing on your left nut?  I had persistent mullerian duct syndrome and had to have mine removed when I was 12.  I feel so femme of center that I'm much girlier than my fairly andro wife.

And I am a she not a he -physically, and all the time.  Psychologically - depends on the environment.   DES makes me feel like I dont fully fit, even in here, because I am not even normal for a TS.  And I am TS not CD.  No judgment there, but I don't seem to have those characteristics. 

There are others here on the board like me.  Anyone want to let it out?  We can cry together later, because this thing hurts.  It started as an involuntary womb conversion and became ... me.

But if asked I am a transwoman, and I know darn well this could be progressive, and it scares the living crap out of me.
It's OK.  I resisted the transsexual label until I was 100% positive it fit me.  All things point to it being progressive, but some DES "sons" ID as bigender or androgyne.

I hope I don't regret posting this, but I believe in having the guts to be real.  I hope I didn't just alienate everyone I hold so dear in here.  It would utterly crush me, but I have to know, am I the only one like this?  I know of one other.... 
Don't.  You're hardly alone here.

[Satinjoy]

Wow I didn't think anyone would even reply!  Thanks Jill big time.

[kelly_aus]

I can understand wanting a reason for why we are who we are, I sought answers for a while.. And then realised, I really didn't care.

But my question is, what of those of us for whom DES and equivalent is not a probable cause? I know my mother didn't take anything when she was pregnant with me..

[Randi]

I was pretty sure I was a girl until I started school.  The boys made fun of my "Davy Crockett" saddlebag, which they insisted was a purse.

The teacher wrote "I am a girl. I go to school" and "I am a boy. I go to school." on the blackboard.  We were told to write whatever pertained to us on our papers.  Evidently I wrote the wrong thing.

My best friends were girls and I wanted to play with them.  I was heartbroken when they started developing and I didn't.

Somehow by age 16, a more experienced girl kissed me and insisted we go "parking".  It took her three months but I finally had intercourse with her.  I found I really enjoyed it.  Actually being inside a female body was a wonderful experience.  From that point on I was content being male.

I joined the Navy and went to electronics school.  In the next few years I had sex with dozens of women.  Later I settled down, graduated from college and began a 32 year career as a television broadcast engineer.

I had nearly forgotten about being a girl in my youth.  Then I slowly lost energy and vitality and was diagnosed with hypogonadism.  My testosterone was 150 on a scale of 300-1100 and my estradiol was 80 on a scale of 0-50.

I started testosterone replacement therapy, which backfired.  The aromatase enzyme was very efficient at converting T to E2, and I inadvertently got a hefty dose of estrogen.  Six months after starting HRT, my nipples were erect all the time and I started growing boobs.

That was when all my childhood memories, so long repressed, came flooding back.

Eventually I added in some additional estrogel.  Oestrogel at first and later injections of estradiol valerate.  I cut back on the testosterone, but I have found I need a small amount to stay strong and healthy.

So here I am at age 64, retired and married 31 years.  I have substantial boobs and a round feminine butt, and consider myself female.  I devote myself to healthy living and exercise, considering it to be my "job" after retirement.

I am still somewhat amazed that I dodged the transsexual bullet for 40 years, but it caught up with me.  I accept that now.

Randi

[JLT1]

SatinJoy,

They used DES as a fertility aid from 1958-1963 before the FDA banned it for that use.  I was exposed while still eggs and sperm.

Like your post BTW.  Sorry about the bizzare life.

More from me later.....

Hugs,

Jen

[JLT1]

I can understand wanting a reason for why we are who we are, I sought answers for a while.. And then realised, I really didn't care.

But my question is, what of those of us for whom DES and equivalent is not a probable cause? I know my mother didn't take anything when she was pregnant with me..

Best guess is that DES increased the probability of being transgendered.  It increaed the probability of being intersexed. 

But in the end, we are what we are.

Hugs,

Jen

[justpat]

  Ok GIRL ,you are not alone there are a lot of us all with very similar stories. I am also a DES son MARCH 1950 a miracle baby,many miscarriages before me nothing but female problems after.Leaned toward being a girl early on,my brothers 7&8 years older than I laughed an made fun when I was dressed up, that taught me to hide it at an early age.I also learned to be very tough and not show emotion very well.Always though I knew who and what I really was I was just was an expert at hiding it.I finally melted down at 62---badly--and was born again only correctly this time. I have Shantel and Randi here at Susans to thank they both helped me move to the happy place I am at today. I was and am blessed, thank you LORD.  Pat

[Late bloomer]

The stories of the early signs, late puberty, sucked at sports, no male drive, sank into pot (instead of alcohol), managed to live a male for early 20's, but male drive waned fast past 30, desperate need to wear female underwear (security blanket and play-pretend), rejection and abuse, much too mild-mannered for outward gender appearance, and my Mom was DES exposed....yes, it hits home.  That's me.  Yes, indeed.  Flirted like a girl, and never knew it.  High School nearly destroyed me.  Looking back, I should have run away, but was just too shy to go through with it.
How did I survive?  I got really thick skinned and tight-lipped.  Stubbornly stoic and trusted that one day my Maker would come to my aid and wipe away my tears.
And then, one day, I got a knock at the door of my life.
Now 62, got A+ cupsize, redistributed fat, loss of body hair, different look to face, totally changed diet and cravings, flooded with emotions I have no experience with, teased with dreams of being seduced by women that I cannot resist and who melt me into a puddle.  All because of this Hep C and 1 Spirolactone a day critical prescription.  Found 1 doctor (oh, what an angel) to talk with, a ton is gone off my shoulders.  I like my 2nd puberty, I do, I do.  And I like my teddy bears on my chest.  If I die tomorrow, I am at last at rest, knowing the why of my bizarre life.
Quite the change for 8 months.
I am what my Maker made me to be, and I think I finally understand why.  I would have tuned into an evil person otherwise.  Maybe even have committed suicide and lost my soul through breach of contract, or been a mass-murderer or a heinous Dictator.  Ick, yuck. 
And if for some unknown reason, I wake up in a hospital bed and discover I am turned the rest of the way into female, who am I to protest?
I am not aware of a pill for that yet, but then nobody told me they got a pill that sends a guy into a half-female puberty, either.
Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, I don't mind any of my recent changes one bit.
I will mind the eventual rejection that will surely come when the changes become obvious, which is inevitable.
I cannot change anyone else's mind or what they accept/reject.

Mod Edit:Dosage

[josie68winter]

The stories of the early signs, late puberty, sucked at sports, no male drive, sank into pot (instead of alcohol), managed to live a male for early 20's, but male drive waned fast past 30, desperate need to wear female underwear (security blanket and play-pretend), rejection and abuse, much too mild-mannered for outward gender appearance, and my Mom was DES exposed....yes, it hits home.  That's me.  Yes, indeed.  Flirted like a girl, and never knew it.  High School nearly destroyed me.  Looking back, I should have run away, but was just too shy to go through with it.
How did I survive?  I got really thick skinned and tight-lipped.  Stubbornly stoic and trusted that one day my Maker would come to my aid and wipe away my tears.
And then, one day, I got a knock at the door of my life.
Now 62, got A+ cupsize, redistributed fat, loss of body hair, different look to face, totally changed diet and cravings, flooded with emotions I have no experience with, teased with dreams of being seduced by women that I cannot resist and who melt me into a puddle.  All because of this Hep C and 1 Spirolactone a day critical prescription.  Found 1 doctor (oh, what an angel) to talk with, a ton is gone off my shoulders.  I like my 2nd puberty, I do, I do.  And I like my teddy bears on my chest.  If I die tomorrow, I am at last at rest, knowing the why of my bizarre life.
Quite the change for 8 months.
I am what my Maker made me to be, and I think I finally understand why.  I would have tuned into an evil person otherwise.  Maybe even have committed suicide and lost my soul through breach of contract, or been a mass-murderer or a heinous Dictator.  Ick, yuck. 
And if for some unknown reason, I wake up in a hospital bed and discover I am turned the rest of the way into female, who am I to protest?
I am not aware of a pill for that yet, but then nobody told me they got a pill that sends a guy into a half-female puberty, either.
Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, I don't mind any of my recent changes one bit.
I will mind the eventual rejection that will surely come when the changes become obvious, which is inevitable.
I cannot change anyone else's mind or what they accept/reject.

I can relate to so much of these stories. Even being quite unattached to emotions, enough so that most funerals that I have attended and was a part of, had very little if any emotional attachment. Hormones, wow, I am learning how to deal with the emotions finally. Nerve racking,  but nice.

Jo

[abd789]

***raises hand***

Im 48 and everything you all say fits me to a "T".....

Its all the same, no reason to write it out... but you are definitely not alone

I had "mystery surgery" at age 12 under the guise of a renal bypass, parents and family just didnt or dont talk about, even today when I pressure my father he just seems uncomfortable and says "nothing strange was going on" funny, Ive learned to spot when my parents are lying

Im 3 months into E and Spiro and my god its the best I have ever felt in 48 years

[JoanneB]

I'm in the DES possible age group here in the USA. Always wished I was born a girl. Hated my body. Had the classic Klienfelters shape when my weight was out of control. Always been a tad gynocomastic.

I think your history and what Jill highlighted can broadly fit a lot of TG people, especially older ones who grew up in an era with extreme homophobia, which anything T was put into into. A good 90% fits me. Unlike many TG people I never purged. Somehow I always knew suppressing the desire to CD and other feelings would never go away. Getting rid of my stash of clothes would only make me crazier when I reached my breaking point, again. I went through a lot of angst to obtain all that I had which actually fit and sometimes even looked good on me. Going On/Off low dose E was a life saver over the decades

As others have said, the reason or reasons why I am trans simply does not matter to me. What took me nearly 50 years to make important is How I handle being trans vs the decades of not really addressing it. But then, years ago I wasn't emotionally equipped to and the world today is a totally different universe for TG people then it was in the 1970's when the dysphoria and hormones started to rage for me

[abd789]

Ok, I do want to talk about something different.... its a characteristic so Im saying it belongs here and Im dying to know if anyone else has this. I must be very careful how I say this, I know this mods. Help me if I do it wrong

Does anyone and I mean SOMEONE else have a partial vagina? I absolutely do and I cant find anyone to relate to. I dont know if its uncouth to discuss or people are embarrassed or what.... but every time I bring it up I get crickets.

I felt I had to edit my own post.... to remove details but details that I feel are important...but I dont want to stir up the proverbial pot....

[Michelle_P]

I'm a "DES son" from the early 50s.  Mom had miscarriages, and was placed on prescription vitamins that included a hefty DES dose.  The bottle sat in the medicine cabinet for many years after I was born. Mom told me about the DES exposure (she was an RN) when a question in a very long term study reminded her of it.

I didn't have a partial vagina.  I won undescended testicles and no body hair ( ), along with lousy gross motor control and delayed puberty, which seems to be fairly common with the DES exposed.  It made for an interesting time in a Catholic high school locker room. :p

[EllenP]

Wow!  I never would have thought.  Another DES son from the 50s.  When I was 10 I went in to the bathroom to take a bath and there was my sister's bra hanging from the door.  From then on I was a crossdresser.  I would make earrings out of different things and wear all this stuff at night while asleep.  My mother busted me several times.  In high school I was mad for girls, but didn't ask them out as I didn't want to lose them as friends.  Preferred them to guys.  Sports jock through high school.

CD, guilt, purge.  Repeatedly until I got married at 33.  That killed the crossdressing for two years.  Each time it came back, it came roaring back.  Found a lump by my testicle.  Had it removed when it became larger than my testicle!  Severe depression, anxiety.  Eventually high blood pressure.  Recently I hit 255 lbs.!  Last week I returned to my therapist after a number of years.  Was seeing him about depression/anxiety (have had this since I was 18).  I told him everything.  And I feel great.  Already lost 10 pounds.  So here am I, married with two kids, youngest in high school.  And we are all afraid of my wife! 

Last week before I told my therapist I was gender dysphoric, I was researching how to make E.D. permanent and how to kill my testicles.  That is when I realized how far I had gone through constant denial and suppressing my need to live as a woman.  That self mutilation urge is gone now that I have talked with my therapist.  And I realized that I am not odd or weird, I am unique, a unique individual.  I can't wait for what is next on this journey.

[cheryl reeves]

I've always knew I was a girl but one thing made me a boy,I have girls hair,body and small breasted,never grew hair on legs,chest or legs til I shaved for yrs. Mens clothing never for me,they just hang on me. I was forced to conform into being male because of one part, never developed male which worried my dad til he seen me in a actual fight and after that didn't have any worries about me. When I told my mom 17yrs ago and showed her Cheryl she told me I always made a better looking woman then a male. I was going to live full time then I met a woman and fell in love and 3 kids and after 28yrs she still lives me and puts up with it as long as I don't do hrt or srs. My told me she took prenatal vitamins and in 1965 they were loaded with des and my middle sis was and is still a tomboy it's been yrs since I seen her or my little sis in a dress.

[Michelle_P]

Ellen, this sounds awfully familiar.  I think I was dressing to present female at age 6-7, sneaking into Mom's closet and trying things on.  Yes, that included sleeping in some items.  I got caught several times, and eventually got taken to see some doctors.  One I thought was odd, because he just had me sitting in a chair in an ordinary office, no exam table, stethoscope, or other Doctor trappings.  He just kept talking.

I'm not sure what the doctors told my parents, but at one point they had some heated discussions, and my dad at one point responded to me with "What?  Do you want electroshock?"  (Treatment at the time was electroconvulsive therapy combined with faradic or chemical aversion therapy.  Torture me straight, basically.)  They finally settled on giving me 'vitamin shots, so you'll grow up right.' I went from a wimpy A student to an angry, barely coherent D student, so that worked.

It's interesting to know that DES was a possible trigger for the prenatal biological changes, but there are so many ways to alter the environment for a developing fetus that it really doesn't matter much at this point in my life.  That's all past, and healing myself requires me to focus on what I can change now and for the future.  That's why I'm here, and in therapy, and on HRT.

"Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better..."

[abd789]

chirp chirp......

[Paige]

But my question is, what of those of us for whom DES and equivalent is not a probable cause? I know my mother didn't take anything when she was pregnant with me..

Hi Kelly,
My first guess would be to look at the long list of man-made chemicals that are probable endocrine disruptors.  When the world is awash in these chemicals it seems to me that they could have serious affects on the population.
Take care,
Paige

[KathyLauren]

My mother died several years ago, so there is no way to tell for sure now, but I am 95% sure I was exposed to DES in the womb.  I recently learned that she had had a miscarriage before I was born, which puts her right in the DES target group.

I can't say that I have any physical signs of it, though my body hair is pretty light.  I have never thought I was a girl, but I always wished I was, ever since at least eight years old.