Did any other MtFs have "WTF?" moments when learning about Freud?

[Carrie Liz]

I've been reading a bunch of articles today about how one's concept of gender develops as a kid. And somewhere along the line, one of the articles mentioned the theories of Sigmund Freud.

I remember in high school when I first learned about Freud and about the whole concept of "penis envy."

And I remember sitting there with my mouth hanging open, being like "WHAT... THE... ****?" I didn't understand how it was possible for anyone to envy having a penis, to actually claim that women somehow wanted them, when I spent so much time of the day absolutely hating mine. It was like "seriously, who the hell could want that stupid useless lump of erectile tissue that does absolutely nothing but cause me discomfort and get in the way? How could anyone who doesn't have to deal with that possibly want one?" And I seriously thought that he must have been wrong, because I had a severe case of vagina envy.

Did any other MtFs here likewise experience some severe cognitive dissonance when they learned about Freud for the first time?

(And I imagine it was the exact opposite for FtMs... they must have been like "OMG, this guy is SO RIGHT!")

[Christine167]

I always thought that Freud had good theories but really really ->-bleeped-<-ty analogies about gender and desire.

[stephaniec]

I like Feud.  I think his fundamental theory of the structure of the psyche is right on. there might be problems with peripheral theories though , but who's perfect. 

[Colleen♡Callie]

I believe Freud projected his own issues on all of his patients.  His foundation holds up decently which is why he's still highly important in the study of psychology, but his theories and conclusions are inherently flawed by his projections of his own psychological issues and hang ups onto his patients.  He wouldn't make it as a psychotherapist today.

[JaneNicole2013]

I believe Freud projected his own issues on all of his patients.  His foundation holds up decently which is why he's still highly important in the study of psychology, but his theories and conclusions are inherently flawed by his projections of his own psychological issues and hang ups onto his patients.  He wouldn't make it as a psychotherapist today.

I tend to agree with this assessment. I'm more of a Jungian myself.

Jane

[xponentialshift]

Wait you mean my psych professor wasn't making a joke when he talked about penis envy in that section? Or at least a metaphor?

Similarly I think I was the only "guy" in the class who didn't squirm when he mentioned the innate fear males have of their penis getting cut off... Whenever I thought about it, I just figured it would hurt a bit but at least I wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.

[Kara Jayde]

I think Freud did some amazing things for psychology, but his gender/development related concepts are mostly antiquated, and I still wonder why they even teach them. It's not like the teach Lamarckian evolution in Biology! But yes, when I first read his stuff I found it was mostly warped by his own personal bias'. Jung was much more objective, and building off Freud's work, was able to peer much deeper into the subconscious processes. Unfortunately, Jung was a little too spiritual, and got bogged down in concepts like the global consciousness, but none the less, his stuff was much better.

The idea of wanting a penis though really upset me, I never hated my penis, but didn't really like it either. I couldn't imagine being in a position where I'd want a penis :/ 

[Dee Marshall]

Freud's "theories" aren't theories. Theories are testable. Freud is important as a basis of psychology, but not as a usable method. Freudian psychoanalysis literally took a lifetime and rarely accomplished much. Insurance companies won't pay for that.

One of my professors suggested that Freud uncovered real child abuse and his colleagues convinced him that the kids had to have made it up so he came up with the Oedipus/Electra complex theory.

[sad panda]

I love penises (though having one is kinda inconvenient, they're all ... lumpy)

Just getting that out there.

Umm... lol,

Freud did a lot more than that. I can see the reasoning behind pre oedipal conflicts and stuff. Your relationship to your parents cause a lot of deep set issues later in life. Freud got a little kooky sometimes and he didn't alwyas have it right probably but I mean it was a long time ago and he is only human too..

Signed, daddy issues

lol...

[Veronica M]

I think at the time Sigmund Freud was ahead of the curve no doubt, but a lot of his theories have been debunked over time. Gender roles being one of them. Just my opinion here but I think he also had a fixation for his mother.

[sad panda]

I think at the time Sigmund Freud was ahead of the curve no doubt, but a lot of his theories have been debunked over time. Gender roles being one of them. Just my opinion here but I think he also had a fixation for his mother.

What do you mean by gender roles being debunked?? Honest question...

[Veronica M]

What do you mean by gender roles being debunked?? Honest question...

First off I am no means an expert, but Freud based a lot of his theories around stimulus as a child from the parental figures in ones life. Where as today we are finding out that some of our gender roles have to do with our genetic structure itself.. Meaning even though we have been born with a penis, there are tell tail signs in our genetic structure of our DNA.

PS: I forget where I read this, but it was a tough read... LOL

[Obfuskatie]

One point for Freud, he started a larger discourse on gender.  Keep in mind he was working from a cisgendered framework, and the transgendered nature vs nurture debate is ancillary.  The main issue with a lot of philosophy is it's inherent sexism and cisgendered focus.  It's a dangerous rabbit hole to fall down when you start asking where you or anyone was influenced into becoming who you are.  Radical thought here: what if there's nothing wrong with any of us, many of us simply don't fit purityrannical cultural standards.  Labeling the LGBT community as other ignores how likely it is for someone to be in our community.  The statistic I've seen is something like 1 in 10 people are privately or publicly LGBT.  If you have a big family, it's likely one or more of them is one of us.  =D

[suzifrommd]

My thought is that one of Freud's early subjects could have been FtM and really been a female-bodied person who desperately wanted a penis. He might have based his "penis envy" theory on that.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

Freud had a very bad scientific method, in fact really in most of his work he postulates and doesn't really study anything. Thats why he came up with so many bizarre suggestions, like his suggestion that babies gain some sexual pleasure out of deliberately holding off on defecating, so that they can feel a big release when they actually do it. Seriously?! WTF?? He had no basis for that or a lot of other ideas he came up with other than the ideas he cam up with himself while watching children in his family. Read his three essays on sexuality. Its like a twisted comedy at points.

[Ms Grace]

I should have twigged when I realised I didn't have castration anxiety!

[Veronica M]

One point for Freud, he started a larger discourse on gender.  Keep in mind he was working from a cisgendered framework, and the transgendered nature vs nurture debate is ancillary.  The main issue with a lot of philosophy is it's inherent sexism and cisgendered focus.  It's a dangerous rabbit hole to fall down when you start asking where you or anyone was influenced into becoming who you are.  Radical thought here: what if there's nothing wrong with any of us, many of us simply don't fit purityrannical cultural standards.  Labeling the LGBT community as other ignores how likely it is for someone to be in our community.  The statistic I've seen is something like 1 in 10 people are privately or publicly LGBT.  If you have a big family, it's likely one or more of them is one of us.  =D

I completely agree with this... I also didn't realize that the statistic was that high... WOW. In my opinion I really don't think there is anything wrong with your thought about nothing being wrong with any of us. We are who we are...

[Ltl89]

I don't know enough about Freud to say anything too definitive on the subject.  What I will say is that I've always been cautious and skeptical about many of his findings.  And as many said, he took a more philosophical approach rather than a scientific one when it came to defending his theories.  Then again, people that break the mold and act creatively are the ones the set the path for future discovery.  I think Freud's ability to inspire and create a further dialogue in the area of pysch is what makes him more important than his theories.