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Yeson - Jul 22-30

Started by Jessray, April 30, 2014, 04:20:53 PM

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MeganChristine

I guess that you've already arrived in Seoul :D I wish you the best of luck :D You are not going to regret the DMZ-tour :D I wasn't able to speak my self on that tour. :D Gives you the chance to suck it all in.

Haha! If you want to do what I did, you have to walk - A LOT. :p There is a bike/walking/running trail along the Han river. There are also several places along the path where you can rent a bike. A very nice way to "relax", for those who are just as insane as myself.

If you want to wind down, and just enjoy the silence I would say, Goto Bukchon Hanok Village and just sit in the park there and let it all go :D Pick up some food on the way and just spend a couple of hours there, BLISS. :D


Oh, almost forgot, do not forget to catch the Rainbow bridge (Banpo Bridge), Closest Metro station is Express bus terminal :D Watershow from 8pm if the conditions are right. :) Sadly I was not able to experience it due to the wind.

-MegC
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Jessray

#21
Hi Meg! :D I feel so lost, haha. Yet, so interesting once conquered. Thank you for the well wishes!! I'll see if I have time to check out some of those. :)

Night 1 Report

That 11 hour plane ride was so ouch sore, and boring, yet I couldn't get to sleep, but the jet lag and timezone shift hasn't caught up to me yet. It'll no doubt be paying a visit in a couple hours. Had lots of silence-induced negative thoughts in the meantime, the usual stuff, "Am I really doing this? I am aren't I?" "How did my life get this much out of control?" "This is so expensive." "I am butchering my body" "Who will miss me if I die quietly in a faraway country or need help?" "Why is this plane's flight path taking us over USA, Russia, China and NK after what happened last week?" etc. (It eventually deviated from the projected path to not actually pass over NK.)

Nearly ran into a bit of trouble at the Korean immigration/arrival stations cause I didn't have my arrival form, thankfully they had some on a table nearby and I scampered over to fill one in. I did recognise the form the others were holding - apparently Air Canada must have assumed I was Korean and possibly the wife of the Korean guy I was seated beside (I'm Chinese), and gave me a Korean one without asking. I didn't understand a word of it and assumed it was a liquor purchase form or something based on some of the words/phrases I did see (I'm a travel noob, don't laugh) so I just kept it aside, hehe. Oh well. No harm done. Another flight attendant did misgender the poor chap and then hastily correct himself, which brought a slight smile to my face. Though who knows for sure, maybe it made his day too!

Incheon airport was very interesting, since the first thing we were shuffled off to after we departed was a train shuttle, that would take us to the Passenger Terminal. I was skittish and unsure if I had missed baggage claim somehow, though it looked like no one else had theirs too. Also, as usual, the doors slammed shut in my face because the shuttle was full and I had to wait for the next one with a few others, that plus the immigration card thing meant that by the time I got to the baggage area (which was after immigrations and before customs, in the Passenger Terminal), I was afraid my check-in bag wouldn't be there and someone else would have filched it or something, but thankfully it was stoically and loyally waiting for me as always, nearly alone on the roundabout carousel.

After a quick customs shuffle, I was finally out! It made me sad to pass, alone, the hoard of people standing there with name cards waiting to welcome friends/family. :( Yeah, way to rub in that I am alone and scared. The public arrivals section was busy though, wow. At one point a group of about 80 high-schoolish age girls ran past at top speed. That was weird.

I picked up one of those rental portable wifi hotspots from LG at one of the many booths around the airport that someone else mentioned, since I brought with me an iPhone 4, a Nexus 7 with no phone capabilities, and a Macbook Air (running Windows, of course, eww Mac OS :P). It works wonders! Tiny and light, slightly smaller than an iPhone, and it runs 4G. Screw hotel wifi internet, or having to constantly search for and connect to the nearest free internet in public, this thing has unlimited data and seems to work great. Don't seem to have a copy of the receipt at the moment, but it's 8k won a day for the first 4 days, and 5k per day after, with a hefty fine charged to your CC if you don't return it on the agreed upon date. Google Maps and chat programs everywhere and uninterrupted yay. The only concern I have is that I'm pretty sure you can connect to someone else's too since the password is guessable from the SSN, but I guess it's not really a big deal and others would have to be stalking you to constantly be on your wifi. I wonder if that's ever been used as a court defence.

Asking the info booth for directions turned out to be a good idea, the nice lady printed out a map of my hotel and the nearest bus shuttle, told me the stop, and pointed me to where to go to catch the bus and what stop to get off at. There was a fairly large bus terminal and ticket booth outside the arrival gates, and the process was that I had to buy a ticket (15000 won - $15), and then catch the correct shuttle bus. Naturally the bus stopped at the neighbouring bus stop and I would have missed it if I didn't check. The driver was nice though and I love how the on-board AI calls out not only the name of the current stop, but also the NEXT stop. Very useful feature I often feel I need back home too.

Some reviews mentioned this hotel was somewhat difficult to find, because it's off on a side street. It's one street off the main road, and I did take a (brief) wrong turn getting to it even though I had the map of it. Location seems to be great, tons of shops and such nearby, and one or two short streets away from the subway station, but the area itself is a little run down and had faint garbage/sewer/food scents in places. The shuttle bus took an hour to drive from the airport to the main streets, and the train would have taken a little longer. Taxi likely not too much shorter, but more expensive, and less adventurous! Bus shuttle is definitely the way to try. The weather was a balmy 26-28 celsius when I was headed to the hotel, 22-29 for the day.

The hotel itself is a mix so far. The room I got had a slightly strange smell, but I can't place if it's anything bad or if it's the natural smell of the wood floor etc. 10th floor, but not much of a view. Sorry Meg, I don't think it's on the west side, oh well. :P A small fly buzzed by me as my welcome committee, I haven't seen it since. The fridge also smells, though again I don't know if that's meant to be the natural smell. Actually the room scent seems to be a much lighter version of the fridge one, I think. So some sort of food?

The microwave was absolutely filthy, I had to clean the glass tray myself and running a tissue on the walls of the microwave immediately turned the tissue brown. Eww. Not going to use that much. :( One of the wall sockets that I tried doesn't work, either. Had to manually request for washing detergent from the front desk as others noted, I now have a little paper cup full of powder detergent heh. There were also occasional visible stains on the counters, though the utensils and stuff that I looked at seemed to be fine and mostly clean. I think I'm going to avoid using them as much as I can, though. I suspect the thermostat is not working either, at least not according to what the manual says. Oh, and of course, the safe in the closet is locked and I can't use it. :P That's a tomorrow project.

Most of the room is powered on only when your hotel card is placed in a slot just inside the hotel door, interesting tech. I had read about it in reviews though so I was expecting that. It also has a different lock system then what I was used to in hotels, and I didn't realise I had left it unlocked for about an hour or so until I noticed the little toggle as I went out to get dinner. Weird it doesn't auto-lock when closed. The elevator also doesn't let you use the up buttons unless you swiped your card first, though the button to the main floor lobby always works.

The bathroom/toilet is to die for though. Even though it's small, I love the shower layout and functionality, and wow that high tech toilet seat. Haha. Nice little nozzles for post-use umm.. cleanup, and heated toilet seats. And I noticed it was ventilating the shower area of its own accord after I had left it. Very good. The one drawback is that there's very little counter space to put stuff on. The decor in general is also nice if you ignore the occasional chipped tile, the floor is a nice comfy dark wood, though I have not had the chance to inspect everything yet, as I feel sleep deprivation catching up to me and.. zzz... There is a wireless router below the large wide-screen tv, that also has ports for a wired connection I guess (didn't test), an electric water heater that works really fast that I am going to use and hope it's hygienic, and some other machine that I cannot figure out in my addled state, but is probably a rice heater. For the base price ($300+ US/night) they're asking, I would definitely not recommend it. I guess it's okay though, for the price I paid ($130-140 CAD/night).

Didn't eat much in the past 24 hours, but I caught a meal in Vancouver in the 10 minutes I had before boarding, Air Canada served three small meals in the 11 hour flight, I had a few snacks, and bought some stuff from a KFC a block away from the hotel. Poor lady there didn't seem to know English and had to ask someone else for help, I hope that doesn't become a problem for the rest of my stay though. If I can get the food issue worked out, all should be good.

Worried about the trip home when I will have no voice to explain things, and I seem to remember a full body scanner at Vancouver airport when transitting back into Canada from international airs. I only have a short layover there so there's a chance I'll miss that plane coming back if anything at all happens. Oh well.

And now, I sleep!
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MeganChristine

OMG, your room wasn't clean? Wow, mine was in mint condition when I got there. The sewage/garbage smell is something you sadly enough will have to get used to. It's ALL over the city.

Btw there is a KFC even closer to you ;) if you turn left when you get out on the street and then left again at the first intersection... Voila KFC on your left :p There is also a minimart just outside the hotel on your left hand side :) Cheek the freezer there, THEY HAVE ICE CREAM ;)

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Jessray

Yeah, I don't mind the smell too much - it's not very strong and not pervasive everywhere or anything. It doesn't seem to be a "bad" area of town either, just a big city thing. I don't like to make a fuss but I do at least need to talk to them about the safe anyway so. We'll see re: the rest! :)

I did see that minimart, haven't gone in yet! I'll have to do more exploring today. :) Maybe find that dumpling store too!
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Jessray

#24
Day 2 - July 21 2014

I slept for all of 4 hours the first night, and was all wide awake by about 4-5 am but didn't actually leave until 7 to try to find my way to Yeson in time for Amy's surgery.

The subway turned out to be fairly easy to use, the most difficult part was actually finding where to get the rechargable subway card instead of the one use or day pass ones. In the end, I was lucky that my station (Gangnam Station) had an info office and a convenience store next to it, so the former pointed me to the latter and they talked in Korean and soon after I had my card. I see that that's actually mentioned in the wikipedia page now, but who looks there beforehand, right?

That part took some time, but once set up it was easy to recharge and find my way around, I think I took five trips for about 1050 (just over $1) each through the day, and have about half of it left. The stations are trilingual, Korean, English and Chinese on nearly all signs, and while it's a really complex conglomeration of lines, the trains are good about announcing each stop, and the train stations are fairly good at pointing you toward the line, and direction of travel, that you are looking for, though I managed to end up on the other side of the connection I actually wanted to make a couple times anyway. It's fairly similar to how Singapore's subway work, which I have (old) experience with since I grew up there. Except more complex, but very well organized at the same time. The trains and stations were equipped with LCDs with varying amounts of info, and the subway map was so complex that there were often sub-maps for each track or listing connecting stations only. One thing was severely lacking from the stations I visted though - seats! Although the wait for each of my trains was never more than a few minutes. The train themselves were very wide, half again as wide as our trains back home.

It was a short ride to Apgujeong, where Yeson was. I managed to get lost because I didn't initially notice that the second set of directions on the Yeson website was for Apgujeong Rodeo station, which was on a completely separate line, not Apgujeong itself. Had to retrace my steps and then found that the other set of directions works great. I made a picture trail here and may add more later. I'm also glad I went there today, the day before my pre-op, so I could tick that off the stress checklist.

Due to all those shenanigans, I was actually 15 minutes late, but did manage to get there in time as they were preparing Amy for her surgery, and I breathlessly wished her well before leaving. Also briefly met and exchanged pleasantries with Jessie and some of the other staff there too. I then had a minor panic attack after leaving, so I decided to go back to my hotel room and sit down a bit. Took the subway back and this time ran into rush hour subway traffic, yowch. Wasn't too bad overall though and I got back to my room without further incident.

When I was headed for Yeson in the morning, all the stores in the pedway areas above and around Gangnam station were closed up and it looked rather desolate. It was a different story by late morning to early lunch period though, people bustling everywhere and all the stores and stalls open with bright lights and flashy signs. Night and day difference.

In the afternoon, I went down to Namdaemun market, 2 line transfers and 12 stops away. I didn't actually buy anything, just browsing, as lots of stuff was in Korean and I'm not a very brave soul. It was pretty intense though, tons and tons of stalls and shops set up, either outdoors, set into the sides of the buildings, or within enclosed air-conditioned buildings themselves. Wide roads, narrow roads, insanely narrow indoor passages, streets merging madly together, stairs sloping down to worryingly buried alleyways. It was pretty neat all in all, order in chaos and all that, and very busy too.

It's an outdoor market, but essentially all the stores are set in covered nooks and so are sheltered from light rain. There were accessory stores, which were basically indoor rooms with tables each specializing in a certain item (read: had a pile of said items) like hairclips, bags, shoes, thread, bangles, etc, impossibly narrow aisles, and a girl tending each table. Import stores, which were buildings with tables full of western brand-name products like electronics, kitchenware and other potpourri. Overall there were lots and lots of clothes stalls, hat stalls, shoe stalls, bag stalls, and lots of food stalls mixed in too, with the occasional randomly out of place store (like a toy store). Some of the stalls had people standing outside who would yell some gibberish at me (to hawk their wares) to make me wince as I walked by. I don't know about others but to me that would actually lower your store's desirability. At least, I always bypass those because I don't like the pressure to shop there "under encouragement"!

All in all, it was kind of a flea market or outdoor market district, the buildings were all built specifically for the market. It was a low tech region, not much in the way of electronics and such, but a gold mine of clothes and other accessories. The pace of travel was fairly slow and in the tighter passages (usually indoors), the modus operandi was "gently push and squeeze by if someone is blocking the way". It was neat seeing couriers that were transporting goods slowly weave their way through the crowds on motorcycles too. I had lunch in a random corner store, then let myself wander for an hour or two before I found one of the subway entrances again and left.

I then went back to Yeson, sat down with Amy and Skype chatted with her for an hour or so as she recovered, before heading back to the hotel. If you read this, hopefully by now you're feeling better and ready to do those jumping jacks. :) That definitely helped calm me a little too, seeing her before and after and hopefully lending me the courage to go through it, it was like reading the spoiler guide to a game or tv show! The nausea and disorientation and a bit of a lack of energy (and a sore, but not painful, throat) seemed to be the main issues facing one post-surgery, mostly from the anesthesia I suspect, but the nausea and headache were all projected to be gone by discharge time in the evening anyway.

I then went back to the hotel, figured out how to use the washer (well, dryer portion), and finally figured out how to activate the air conditioning as well. Turned out it was a separate remote in Korean, that wasn't mentioned in the instructions (It just said the air-con system was "operated by a control panel" which apparently meant the remote, and not the thermostat on the wall which does control the heating). I'm still a klutz though, I had someone unlock the safe for me (using a master control) but then it promptly relocked again without a password once the guy left the room, when I closed it to see how it fits. And I couldn't get it open again. Big sigh. :( Even with the instructions in English in the file (What red light in the safe?? There wasn't one!) I couldn't get it to work, so.. I think I'll just carry my valuables around with me. :P

Bought some ice cream and milk and a few snacks from the little convenience store next to the hotel, in prep for my surgery. Nice to have that there, so at least when I don't feel like tackling Korean restaurants or food stalls, especially without a voice, I can still get some food from there if needed. Not quite Korean cuisine, though I definitely haven't seen Octopus Fried Rice frozen dinners at my local Safeway back home!

I am about 12 hours from my pre-op now, and 30 hours or so from surgery, and argh. Stress, worry, anxiety and fear. Although, this was the point during my trip to Portland where I decided to pull out, the night before the pre-op/two nights before surgery, and I currently have no such similar panic.. yet.

Edits: Oh, today was the first day I've gone out wearing a skirt too. Well not really, but that one was nearly an ankle-length skirt, and only once. This one was (just) above the knee and felt great. Yummy! I figured hey, this was a trip of so many firsts already, may as well get this one out of the way too in a foreign country where it's easy to rinse and forget! if it goes badly!

Also, while I do get approached quite a fair amount back home by people asking for directions, needing the time etc and looking for (I guess) a friendly face, I didn't expect that in Korea by an old Korean lady who didn't speak a word of English, while I was clutching a tourist guide in my grubby paws too. Unfortunately had to helplessly shrug at her a bit, but it was still neat in a way I can't quite put to words right now.
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Jessray

So today is probably the worst day of my life. I'm still in some state of shock but I'll attempt to write up what happened at Dr. Kim's office when I went in to Yeson for the pre-op tests.

I did both tests, but he identified it after the first and reaffirmed it after the second, showing me my vocal fold diagrams and such. He claims I have spasmodic dysphonia, I don't remember if he mentions which type, and basically there's a lot of tremor, with one vocal fold thicker than the other, they don't close all the way, it takes a bunch more air (5-6x normal) to vocalize each sound, etc.

He'll still do the surgery if I want, but his recommendation is to get botox treatment beforehand (ie, over months) and fix this before coming back for VFS. Otherwise, he says, the botox treatment Yeson will give will help stabilize it for 4-6 months, but after it wears off the sound quality will degrade again until I go get more jabs.

He gave me a bunch of numbers too, I got the entire voice exam file to try to "make an informed decision" by tonight even though I have no idea what all these phrases are and what the likely projections will be after the surgery, if I go through it. It was a lot of information at once on a topic I know nothing about, so I may have interpreted it wrongly, but I think the takeaway from what he said was that I was sitting around 172 hz on a comfortable frequency when I'm speaking in female mode, so well into the gender neutral range, but while the surgery would in theory push that all the way up to 250 (the top end of the female range), I'd naturally relax to get into a more middle number instead of forcing my voice up that far.

The issue with that is that currently I subconsciously speak softly to mask the tremor in my voice, and also by going up into my female range, because tightening and tensing the vocal muscles helps to mitigate it. However, post op, there will be no need for the latter, and so my voice will go even lower to compensate and probably end up somewhere around the range where it is now anyway. Or something like that. Unless I do more botox injections (expensive) every few months to stabilize the voice until I/my brain learns to adapt, which may or may not take an indefinitely long time.

I don't know. Something like that. I'm fairly distraught and in the midst of a full panic breakdown right now, not having eaten much in the past 24 hours or so due to getting ready for this appt and not having time after because it took so long (2-6pm), and I am supposed to make an informed medical decision on this huge life event before tomorrow morning in order to let them know if I still want the surgery or not?

The thing is, I guess there is some tremor but it's never really been something I've been pegged for, I don't talk much or very loudly anyway so I'm not sure if it will even matter if I still have the exact same tremors that I'd have to do the exact same treatment for (if it was something that needed curing) after the fact anyway? I was nervous and scared through the pre-op and I asked if that possibly had to do with it, he explained that there were different kinds of tremors and one way to find out if it was due to stress was to practice the 'Ahh' intonation in front of the hotel mirror and see. I guess there's some, but there isn't that much, certainly not in all tones of 'Ahh', and it's nothing that affected me in any way shape or form before. I think. Maybe?

I'd appreciate any help at all to make heads or tails of this, outside of the wikipedia article and the short brochure he gave me, I know nothing about this and am not in the right mindset to do anything at all currently. I'm still soaked from the rain outside and there were a couple other things that happened too. At this point with all the issues in my transition I just feel like giving up on it all. :(
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northcountrymassage

I feel you girl.  As I posted I have a tremor too along with asymetrical vocal cords, and they don't close causing me to use about five times as much effort as most people.  I'm starting to think there are a lot of us. lol  I will have to get the Botox and then they want me to call them in four months to see if I should start taking the medication that they are going to send me home with that I think kinda mimics the Botox.  He said this would help my brain with the reprogramming.  I have not had a voice coaching and know very little about it all other than I need to learn how to relax my muscles in the laryanx and use the other muscles to mimic a cis anatomy.  I wish I knew what to tell you, but I do know I felt the exact same way you do with wondering if this all has just been a big mistake and if I should just give up on my dream.  What ever you decide I'm here for you, if you would like me to come by tonight or if you have the surgery tommorow I can do that too, no problem.  Stay fierce girl, trust in yourself and know that you where killing it in that dress. :-)
Namaste and Blessed Be,
Amy Lynn
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Jessray

Thanks hugs :( It's weird because it's basically tremors and such like everyone else, but googling that voice condition talks about people who lose their voice completely and well, I am nowhere near that. That's exactly what was described that I have too, asymmetrical vocal cords that don't quite totally close. I get nervous around others when speaking anywhere near my old voice, and I've always tended to clam up entirely and speak minimally for large chunks of my life, so my voice isn't exactly something I've ever become totally used to, but this is like going in for a flu shot and finding out you have <insert incurable disease here>. And he diagnosed that by listening to me speak the first time. My low speech is normal and my female speech is always a work in progress but generally seems just fine too.

My dilemma is that I now have a bunch of powerful pro and con points and whichever I pick I'm going to be left wondering "what if" on the other side. And there are so many unknown variables and I'm stuck throwing darts at a dartboard to decide my life. :(
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AmyBerlin

Dear Jessray,

I hope this message reaches you in time. I have a feeling that Dr. Kim diagnoses a tremor in virtually everyone. In the pre-op exams, I made a point of always using full support in order to speak and sing my notes dead straight and without the slightest hint of vibrato. In one tone near my then-low end, I failed and added vibrato and that's the note he picked up on. I was lucky that he didn't feel that this warranted Botox treatment. All of these resources I used, however, are unavailable to someone who doesn't have a solid knowledge of vocal technique.

It's very hard making a recommendation since apparently, you don't have a lot of experience in professional voice use, but in my opinion, if you didn't experience problems with voice tremor before, I'd say go through with the surgery, get your Botox shot afterwards and make a point of receiving good aftercare by a speech therapist or qualified vocal teacher. The voice will "sit" at a higher pitch post-surgically, and given good guidance afterwards, you should be able to receive a manageable and female voice without continued Botox injections.

This just goes to show what's been said here time and time again that VFS is not a cure-all, but involves a lot of attention to good voice technique both before and after the surgery. You can rest assured that a glottoplasty won't leave you with a Mickey Mouse-type voice, but it can take a lot of time and training to achieve a well-rounded female voice even though the pitch is technically correct after surgery. Even though the surgery will leave you with a perfectly healthy female vocal anatomy, it takes time, dedication, and training to make sure that you're handling the new equipment in the optimal way.

Many blessings,

Amy
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Jessray

Hi Amy,

A sincere thank you for your reply. It has reached me in time, and that seems to be what I've read up as well, what freaked me out was the additional diagnosis on top of that but that was described to me in terms of tremor and the incomplete glottic closure. When I have not, as far as I know, had any real issues with tremor or anything else, he even did mention that my regular speaking voices had no tremor.

I have no issue with the training and possibly even an additional botox shot or two if needed, down the road, but to have it described as potentially something that will be needed all my life and I don't know what else, really freaked me out something bad yesterday, since as far as I can tell nothing is wrong to begin with. Not to mention I was already suffering from nerves and tiredness going in.

I will likely be going in today and asking him a few more questions but then opting for the surgery anyway, unless any red flags are thrown up. I hope not.
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AmyBerlin

Dear Jessray,

best of luck to you! There are a number of exercises that can be used to achieve glottic closure, and developing good support will assist you in getting rid of a lot of tremor as well – I assume that you'll be fine unless there's a diagnosis of essential tremor. I'm a professional musician, so I'm familiar with a lot of the vocal concepts involved in this, but understand that it can be bewildering and confusing to a layperson.

Please bear in mind that I'm not a doctor, so I don't know a lot about speech pathology. Assuming that the problem you described is functional, not physical, I think it won't be an insurmountable obstacle post-surgery. Just be sure to secure the help of a voice professional to help you obtain a healthy enunciation after surgery.

You can rest assured that as a surgeon, Dr. Kim is top-notch and that you'll be left with a pair of functional female-sized vocal cords. However, it's also decisive what you make of them, and you need to pay attention to receiving good aftercare. Invest a modest amount of money in some vocal lessons by a professional, and, by all accounts, you should be fine, if there are no physical problems with your vocal folds. It may take some effort, though.

Take care,

Amy
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Jessray

Dear Amy,

Thank you for the kind words and reassurance. No, no essential tremor that I've heard of or that I recognise from Googling, and I think that if there really exists any issues, it is functional in nature, but what do I know as well hey. :P

I am pretty sure I do have a voice clinic back home I can use as a resource, where I did my initial courses for voice feminization training, so that's definitely something I will look at too.

You too!
Jess
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Jessray

Well, nothing doing. Enough scary things were said by Dr. Kim that after a long period of deliberation and stewing I called it off. Oh well. Was all dressed in hospital slacks and all too.  :(
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northcountrymassage

I'm really sorry about the outcome Jessray, but being there with you and hearing what Dr. Kim and Jessie had to say, I think you made the right decision.  I don't know if I could have been as strong as you to do so, but I'm proud of you.  I have a feeling you will get this under control and be back in no time because you rock!  It was really nice visiting with you and thanx for the ice cream. Love ya
Namaste and Blessed Be,
Amy Lynn
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Jessray

Thank you for being there and no problem! I doubt I'll be back, but we'll see. This was way too stressful and cost too much emotionally and logistically (and monetarily) to set up, and what a disappointing ending. I just went back to the hotel room to have a massive breakdown, but am somewhat better now after that heh. Probably a big nap due in the near future too, I think I've slept 9 hours in the 3 nights since arriving.

Thanks for being there too. I really appreciated the company. It helps SO much to have someone else around.
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anjaq

I am sorry to hear that, Jess. I hope you did not have to spend too much money so far, just the flight and hotel costs, I hope?

Personally I think that it would not have been a mistake to go through with it, considering the famous Jenny was having termors too and was told she should get Botox injections after recovery regularly as well. AFAIK she does not follow that advice and still is doing great. Dr Kim seems to diagnose a tremor with most people and he likes Botox to correct it. I believe that a voice rehab can do a lot in that direction as well. I can imagine that it is a benefit to get this corrected before a VFS though. I wrote to Dr Kim in Winter and sent him my endoscopic video images along. He diagnose a tremor, assymetry, incomplete glottal closure on both ends and said I will need botox, have a longer recovery time and not get a really good result. He recommended that I resolve these issues first, so I kept doing voice rehab since Winter and the last video showed a significant decrease in the gaps between the vocal folds, less tremor and assymetry. So I am hopeful that this can be resolved. I do not know however what happens if doing VFS anyways. My educated guess is that as Dr Kim said, recovery will take longer as not only has the brain to learn the new voice, it also has to correct the mistakes made with tremors, assymetry, incomplete closure and all this (which I believe is a result of tension built up from improper voice feminization - which is why so many of us have it).
Since I am a insecure person, I probably would have done the same and postponed it - but if you stick with this even after what our resident voice expert Amy from Berlin says  ;) - make sure to get voice rehab, get your voice fixed even if it means you have to drop a bit in pitch for now as was the case with me, and then do ENT checkups with video and send them to Dr Kim befor planning another trip.

I wish you the best and that you will get your voice beautiful.

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Jessray

Thanks Anjaq. Yeah, just flight and hotel costs. Yeson took $600 for the pre-op appointment and set up/xray costs etc but will be reimbursing the rest of the fee.

It wasn't the tremors and glottal thing, that I was fairly sure I could overcome as well, it was the diagnosis of that spasmodic dysphonia thing that rattled me. Though I guess those are just more prominent tremors. I believe, (please correct me Amy/northcountrymassage if I got any of it wrong) they predicted I wouldn't even be able to get a stable voice after operation, which was the golden question for me as to whether I was going to go through with it or not. At least without a couple years worth of botox injections. They think because of the way I talk and the way I subconsciously compensate for that "disease" (what a word), I don't see it myself but it's there and I wouldn't be able to do it post-op and could end up like some of the SD videos on Youtube after.

I still have difficulty mentally digesting it all.. I'm better now but still in a period of dulled shock and I can't really think about what I may have given up by walking away from that, but on the other hand I couldn't bring myself to go against Dr. Kim's recommendation of no surgery either, even though they still gave me the option. Plan is to go back home and get in touch with a voice clinic that I had used in the past to see if it's a true diagnosis or not and if they can offer any help assuming it's true.
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anjaq

That sounds like a good plan. Get it checked by a local clinig, get voice rehab and fix those issues. I was so devastated when I got that remote-diagnosis from Dr Kim last winter - I was close to actually putting myself into debt and booking the surgery in spring already but had some doubts still and that email was basically the decision to wait at least another year...

This is what I got and I think it sounds a little bit like what you described
QuoteIt is observed that you have vocal tremors and voice break as well as tension discrepancy due to unbalanced vibration pattern of your vocal folds.
It seems like all these symtomps have been there fore a long time and therefore to compensate these symptoms when producing sound, you seem to have a tendency to press your vocal folds squeezing them and producing
a breathy voice on your own unconsciously.
Dr.Kim said going through the VFS surgery is possible though it may take a longer recovery period or there will be limitation on your pitch increase process due to your vocal dysphonia.
Please be noted that VFS surgery is able to increase one's fundamental frequency about 75Hz in average that if your fo is arond 100-110Hz, it wouldn't be able to feminize your voice to the range of 200Hz.

Yes, the best way is to treat your vocal dystonia beforehand and that increases the chance of feminizing your voice.

so I cannot say what will happen in the long run. I am working on voice therapy, my voice does weird things now - seems releasing that tension is good on one side but also lowered my pitch and increased temporarily the assymetric sounds.  Basically what I am doing mostly now is less of a feminizing voice training but a regular voice rehab, which is also insurance covered. I hope you can find a good solution as well

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northcountrymassage

anjaq, I believe the big difference with you and I is that while we have the vocal tremors it is a learned type of issue and not a physical one like it is with Jessray.  With her rare Spasmodic Dysphonia she has a physical neurological condition that she has to try compensate for, unlike us.  Dr. Kim basically said (if I understood correctly) that if she decided to go thru with the surgery that it would really exacerbate the condition and make for a very poor voice for an extended period of time until she learned new ways to compensate.  Also she would have to get the Botox injections for a very extended period of time (i.e. years) while trying to learn these new ways of compensating.  If she works on trying to control the condition (it cannot be cured according to him), and then comes in for the surgery she will have a much quicker turn around to the voice she would like to get without the risk of a very poor voice in the meantime.
Namaste and Blessed Be,
Amy Lynn
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Jessray

I think he did mention it was functional, not physical, but also not something that can be controlled easily - but I am not 100% sure on that.
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