Quote from: bobowhoa on May 09, 2014, 12:08:32 AM
Thanks for your post and links HughE! I hope in my lifetime there will be more research into this field too.
I read through one of the threads that talked a lot about DES. Yeah I heard about that and seen people on forums claiming to be DES babies. I saw you made a mention of cloacal extrophy, I looked it up and it seems to be about how some of your organs are exposed outside of the skin. However, it doesn't look like there's a clear link to transsexuality: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/7735085_Gender_identity_outcome_in_female-raised_46XY_persons_with_penile_agenesis_cloacal_exstrophy_of_the_bladder_or_penile_ablation
I think I may have had a varicocele, but I always thought that was normal (looked just like the pictures and I remember sharp pain from the veins). According to wikipedia, up to 15-20% of males have it. However, I don't have it anymore, so I don't know if it's suppose to be a permanent thing or not.
I'm so curious as to what my mom may have taken, especially being born after a miscarriage before me, and perhaps frantically trying to take medicines?
The point I was trying to make when I mentioned cloacal extropy, is that it's an example of where doctors tried to reassign biologically male babies (who'd been exposed to normal male levels of testosterone throughout their prenatal development), as female, with disastrous results.
I don't have access to the full text of the paper you've linked to, however this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421517/is a clear example of how badly things can go wrong. If you read through the paper, it's pretty clear that reassignment to female hasn't really worked in any of the patients it was tried on.
"Five subjects were living as females; three were living with unclear sexual identity, although two of the three had declared themselves male; and eight were living as males, six of whom had reassigned themselves to male sex. All 16 subjects had moderate-to-marked interests and attitudes that were considered typical of males."
Reading this section, it's clear reassignment hasn't really worked even for the 5 who were living as female:
"Subjects 1 through 5, who were living as females, were 9 to 19 years old at the end of follow-up (Table 1). All used unambiguously female names and female restrooms consistently. None had knowledge of her birth status. Four had been taking estrogen for two to six years, although their parents were unclear whether the hormone had any behavioral effects. None had dated. None discussed sexual activity or sexual attractions (whereas three adolescent genetic females with cloacal exstrophy did). Parents noted in follow-up interviews that these subjects were generally content. However, the parents did not want these children to participate in follow-up interviews and answered all follow-up questions themselves."
Basically what the failure of reassignment to female in these patients shows, is that prenatal testosterone exposure determines your gender identity later than life, and that gender identity is something that's hardwired into your brain before birth and can't later be changed, by hormones, social conditioning or anything else. This is the opposite of what most psychologists and rightwing religious groups try to make out. It also means that it's an absolute recipe for disaster to expose a biologically male fetus to testosterone blocking drugs such as DES - there's an obvious risk of creating people who are biologically male but have a female gender identity (which is exactly what appears to have happened with DES).
Varicoceles are apparently one of the things associated with DES exposure, although they're pretty common in the unexposed male population too. Physical defects that seem to be very commonly associated with DES exposure include undescended testicles, micropenis (a fully formed but considerably shorter than normal penis), and epididymal cysts of the testicles (these are apparently "Mullerian remnants" or fragments of female tissue that would have been absorbed during normal male development).
