Video: Androgyny - In/defined

[Kendall]

Transcript to the video

Produced by Paula Chowles

We live in a world of binaries.

Black and white. Day and Night. Yes or no. Positive or negative. Male or female. Masculine and feminine.

What about the people who dont fit into black and white? What about the grey people?

What about those people who are not masculine or feminine? Who are either in the middle or indefinable? Is androgyny a sufficient concept to explain who or what they are?

***
I think what we often mean common sensically about androgyny is gender ambiguity. In other words we cant tell the difference. Or we know its about a woman, but we think they display characteristics that are appropriate to the other gender position.

***
Androgynous, umm like as an adjective, can be used in many different ways.

And I think it can be physiological wheither its, you know, someone thats intersex, actually has both male and female genitalia. Or they just cant be defined either/or.

Um

Then it can be physical. Where your actual physical body kind of doesnt fit into a feminine sorta physical body.

And then there can be behavioral, emotional, psychological.

I think its different aspects. I dont think someone is androgynous...completely [laughs]

***
I think I would regard myself as androgynous, especially if you take your definition into kinda defining a political, almost psychological mindset. Where you actively chose not to see gender boundaries. Or blur gender definitions.

***
If androgyny is the refusal of essentialized gender categories like masculine or feminine.

Then who gets to decide what exactly androgyny is?

Is it really a definable category where people can fit into, slot into?

Or is it about not slotting in?

***
I always felt like I have a problem with people's need to box people. I think it's common expecially in my sexuality, because I actually refuse to be defined in either category or any category at all. So I think that sorta creeps into other aspects of my life. And therefore I do incorporate both masculine and like feminine aspects or characteristics into my appearance and the way I behave. Um but I then I do think also its an expression of my self because I think I have always had this sorta duality. Not quite sure where I fit in.

***
It was quite a natural choice to make in the fact that I grew up in a very egalitarian household where there werent any gender constructions. And I wasnt brought up saying your brother is only allowed to do this or your only allowed to do that. So I grew up in a way that I dont feel there should be classifications. Labels are just for jam or jars.

***
I think its important to distinguish androgyny from sexuality and from gender specifically. That we have a sex/gender system that androgyny, I think, is a deeply political statement against. So even though it isnt something about people's intentions, but maybe their discomfort with maybe what they see as the options in terms of the sex/gender system.

***
Are we born essentially masculine? Or are we born essentially feminine?

Or essentially on the spectrum?

Or is gender something that is fluid? And when we are in a different environment or different social sphere, do we move up and down that spectrum. Does a different situation bring out different aspects of our selves?

***
You come to a university where people are generally more open minded. You get given the intellectual space to try and explore new things. And you come here, no one knows you you are, you were before. So you get more of the freedom to explore. It also provides you with the resources to back up your identity or the choices you make.

***

Just come into contact people that weren't in your world before. People of different like divergent sexualities. People that just think differently I suppose. And you can't help but be affected by it. And start to question your own values and the way you sorta see the world.

***
But then why in some environments do we feel we are acting more natural.

And why in other environments or around other people do we feel we are inhibiting who we really are.

***
The way in which people signal their sense of self in terms of femininity or masculinity is always contingent.

It depends on what is going on around them,
What are the choices given to them?
What extent they are free to make those choices actively?
What extent are they constrained into making choices because those are the only choices available?

***
There is a huge trend at the moment. To be different. To break the constraints of society. And to go against the grain and not be defined.

***
We think we are alot more free by not subscribing to a specific or essentialized category, but by labelling ourselves androgynous, or placing ourselves in the category of androgyny,

We just present a whole new set of boundaries,
a whole new set of rules,
a whole new set of things to conform to.

So I think androgyny as a concept fails because it just creates another gender category instead of deconstructing and tearing apart gender constructions.

You can double click on it to see it even though it says it wont play, it will pop up a page where it can be viewed.

One video I found about androgyny. I think its great considering the rarety of information out there. And I think its well put together and could be shown to other people.

[sparkles]

hi it comes up with the owner not allowing inbeded videos, have to link to the site

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBCMKmCn0g4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esusans%2Eorg%2Fforums%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D17034%2E0

[Kendall]

ya it does, you can also just click it again after the message comes up to get another window to pop up with it on.

[Shana A]

Thanks for sharing this KK, it's really well done! I especially like the end, where zie says that perhaps androgyny is yet another construct, with its own set of rules and questions how we might instead deconstruct gender as opposed to creating more labels.

zythyra

[Pica Pica]

i enjoyed the video, but felt their take on the whole thing was a lot more political and a lot more restrictive than my own. I'm loose. Too loose to commit to a gender, I'm certainly no frontline gender deconstruction type person. Too much effort.

[no_id]

It was an interesting video, and quite thought-provoking. However, I do not truly see Androgyny as a label that comes along with rules and boundaries, but more as a terminology to adopt in order to get in touch with likewise individuals. After all, as soon as I shut down this computer, leave this room and step onto the streets I will only have myself to share my thoughts with since no individual passing by will tell me, "Good morning, I am female and what are you?"

Also, what did strike me was the fact that the interviewees as well as the carrier all had an androgynous appearance to them (not too sure about the red-shirted figure though; professional?) which seems to suit the somewhat politcal agenda Pica mentioned.

Nevertheless, the video does show what a brought spectrum Androgyny truly is and how individual and unique each perspective is. To me though, identifying as Androgyne is much alike the following:

If I loved trees I might join a tree-hugging club just to learn about the many possible ways to hug a tree.

Adopting lables is only a perspective in a world of infinite possibilities, and perhaps by adopting them we are able to see those possibilities.

[RebeccaFog]

I've been unable to listen because of the atmosphere I'm in right now.  I'll be watching it later.

Having only seen the video, though, I can say that I was aware of the people's androgynous appearances and I was curious about whether that is the best way to present the topic. I understand using people who 'fit' the description, but I don't look like that and it really bothers me that I don't see myself there.

I'm not blaming the video makers. It's only one video. Maybe there will be another than contains men and women who don't happen to fit 'the mold'.

I think I'm entering a GID phase, so I hope I'm not being a downer here.

[no_id]

On another note, (yes I just realised something), there is a part of the video where the carrier says: "Androgyne is not something you are, it is something you become"

In addition to the androgynous appearance, and the politcal agenda to deconstruct gender I believe this video is more likely presenting Androgyny as a subculture rather than a gender identity since when dealing with Androgyny as a gender identity it is said: "Androgyne is something you are, not something you become." while with subcultures; you become/make the choice to be part of that culture. Another indication is the reference to rules and boundaries that more than often accompany subcultures, and as we have established more than once: there is not set definition for Androgyny since we each view it in or own way, and each experience, and move along our own individual journeys. At this point, I shall rest my case.

no_id on da roll 

[Kendall]

Maybe I should try finding a typed up transcript if there is one. If I could type fast I would type it up.

Posted on: July 31, 2007, 09:52:05 PMTyped out 2/3rds of it. Still have the final 2 minutes but my hands are tired. I am not a natural typer, lol.

[Prince_Eric]

Great video. I thought the music in the background was really hypnotic. Anyone else notice that?

[Kai]

Maybe I should try finding a typed up transcript if there is one. If I could type fast I would type it up.

Posted on: July 31, 2007, 09:52:05 PMTyped out 2/3rds of it. Still have the final 2 minutes but my hands are tired. I am not a natural typer, lol.

The transcript is greatly appreciated, thank you!  Is it the full thing yet, or are there still two minutes missing?

(Am I the only deaf one here?  Curious...)

I thought the video was pretty interesting.  I'm not sure if I agree with it all, but it was still interesting.  It might have helped to have someone who doesn't look totally androgynous, but who is androgynous to be in it. 

[Kendall]

Yes think I finished it. Forgot to mention that I did. If anyone finds a correction , mention it. Sometimes the words were spoken quickly and hard to understand. Listened to some sentences many times. I also tried to highlight the main topics and concepts spoken.

Just listened to it again. It seems to be mostly correct and finished.

Great video. I thought the music in the background was really hypnotic. Anyone else notice that?

Ya the sorta heart beat, or american indian drum. Almost a sound of hammering of nails or construction also.

[chunk]

Very interesting video. I've been seeing androgyny as just another label which in itself seems to apply a pressure to live up to it rather then just be who I am.

Chunk

[krys]

It's a very itneresting video, and I think it does rasie some very valud points, though I must admit to initially beign put off by some of the language (generally I mentally tune out when I hear the words "deconstructing" "breaking down boundaries" in a production), the points were valid though. However I think regarding oneself as androgyne only sets specific rules if you wish it to do so. It is ultimately, by it's vaery nature, a grey and blurred area, without specific traits, except being blurred and grey perhaps?

Waffling, not making sence i know... Work does that to me