AVODART OR SPIRO??????????????? Help Please............

[mclova84]

Hey Ladies,

I just turned 23 at the beginning of this month and I am about to begin HRT.  I have a question for you all...when it comes to testosterone blockers: which do you prefer AVODART or SPIRO?

I am asking because Male pattern baldness runs in my family...my mother's father starting balding at 20 years old.  About two years ago I noticed some thinning in my hair.  Last April (2006) I began taking 1mg Propecia.  It has helped some although I still have many hairs in my hands in the shower.  I would say I have lost about 20% of my hair, especially in the temples.  However, most of my friends and family say they HONESTLY can not tell because I do have very thick, curly hair.

SO I was wondering did you all see or have you heard whether you get more success at maintaining and possibly growing hair back from AVODART, SPIRO, PROSCAR or a combination of which?
I read taking estrogen, spiro and proscar was safe and very effective.

Share your thoughts, ideas, etc. Please

Thanks!

[Keira]

Using Spiro and Dutasteride (the generic name of Avodart) will help the most.

Dutasteride halts almost all Testosterone to DHT conversion and there's a good chance that even without HRT you'd keep your MPB at bay. The side-effects are loss of male libido and sometimes male breast enlargement, both of those are not a problem to a TS 

Proscar is the same thing as propecia (finesteride), just cheaper.

With an anti-androgen and estrogen, you'll diminish both T production and block T receptors. With less T to convert and dutasteride stopping most DHT conversion to DHT, you'll not only stop MPB, but there's a good change there will be regrowth of the recent loss (except possibly the very sensible forward temple area, which even in women is the first to go).

[seldom]

I use a combination of Dutasteride (Avodart), Spiro, and Estradiol (estrogen).

Dutasteride only blocks DHT conversion.  It is NOT a T blocker.  You must take spiro to block T.  It is the anti-androgen.

However if you want to block most androgen and androgen side product production, you should do both dutasteride and spiro. 

Honestly if you have not lost that much doing just Spiro and Estradiol you should be fine.  But Dutasteride can always be added. 

I lost significant amounts (50%+)  That is why I am doing Spiro and Dutasteride.

Dutasteride is more effective at blocking DHT than Proprecia/Proscar (90%+ for Dutasteride as supposed to 60-75% for Proscar). 

[HelenW]

I use a combination of Dutasteride (Avodart), Spironolactone, and Estradiol too.

I started the Avodart for a prostate problem 6 months before I started spiro and estradiol.  It made a big difference to my prostate but not too much for my hair.  When I started HRT the hair grew back some but I was too far gone, too bald, before I started for it to make a significant difference.

Really, though, I think you should let your doctor decide which HRT drugs you should take.  I suppose that it's ok to have some opinions beforehand but the doctor's being paid for his/her expertise so I think you should use it.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

[mclova84]

Keira, (or anyone for that matter)

I have a question for you........

Well my endo. prescribed estrogen, avodart and a monthly injection of lupron depot.  But Lupron is EXPENSIVE!  I want to see if he will prescribe me one of the combo's like you described in this thread.  But he is seems deadset on prescribing Lupron or something similar saying Avodart helps absorb the testosterone but does not illiminate it so I must use something like Lupron to do that...but I have heard of other transegendered individuals on regimens that do not include injections like Lurpon but my doctor is making it seem like I HAVE to have it to see any results/success.  Can you shed some light on that for me?

[Keira]

Lupron will stop the testes from producing testosterone.
I don't think block testosterone from the adrenals from reaching the T receptors.
Its like and orchi basicly.
Very expensive, hope you got insurance.

[mclova84]

Well I do but I don't really wanna take Lupron.  But he is making it sounds as if I have to.  Like there are no other options - but there are other options right? Lupron is not necessary? Explain that to me

[seldom]

Most TS use Spiro for Testosterone blocking.  Spiroloctane is the safest, cheapest and most effective method of block testosterone.  Why your endo is insisting on Lupron is beyond me.  Spiro is also CHEAP and covered by most insurance plans as its a generic medication. 

Avodart (Durasteride) is not effective at blocking T at all (in fact it can increase T).  What it does is block DHT production from T.  (I think I stated this before).  AVODART DOES NOT BLOCK TESTOSTERONE.  You need a differant type pf anti-androgen for that, and Spiro is almost always that type of anti-androgen. 

I would suggest to your endo that the tradional route for TS is what you want to be doing.  He kind of has taken a radical path with you using Lupron. 

The thing is Spiro also facilitates some breast growth. 

This seems very wrong for some weird reason and you may want to find a new endo.  Do you live in a big city?  If so you may want to go to a GLBT clinic instead.  It will probably be cheaper and the doctor probably will not use unusual treatment methods when Spiro+Estrogen (and maybe Progesterone) is enough. 

Lupron is very suspicious because it blocks both male and female hormones, not just T. 

Seriously talk to him about switching to spiro, otherwise find a new endo or GP who will go the traditional route with you. 

He is right though on one thing.  Avodart alone is not the right thing to use on its own, because it only blocks DHT production, and does very little with regards to testosterone itself.  You need something that blocks testosterone, Spiroloctane is very effective at that if used in conjunction with estrogen. 

[Keira]

Lupron would stop E and T being produced by the testes and ovaries, but won't interfere with what exists. T from the adrenals is low enough that once Lupron has shut down the testes, a lower dose of E will be required to to its job.

The T blocking function of other anti-androgen may or may not be usefull depending on how much muscle mass you start with and if you've got a major problem with male pattern baldness.

The main problem with Lupron is not its efficiency, it is its cost.

If you cannot afford it, tell the endo and let it find another solution that's more inside your price range.

[taru]

Lupron is good and works better at stopping T than spiro does. The reason spiro is so common is that it is available easily and very cheap - not because it is the best med.

[seldom]

Lupron may be good.  But its also cost prohibitive, and it is an unusual tact in HRT, and is not completely proven in TS HRT.  While there is differant routes to take with HRT, it almost always involves spiro.  This is the first I have ever heard anybody on Lupron. 

Like it was stated earlier, Lupron also blocks estrogen, something spiro does not do.  It would hurt one of the side benefits to Dutasteride, which is the fact when you block DHT production, it blocks a viralizing aspect of DHT, the reduced production of estradiol being one of the viralizing aspects of DHT (its a reason why breast growth is a side effect of Dutasteride).

On top of that there is the fact that spiro blocks DHT receptors.

While Lupron may block T itself more effectively, there are benfits to spiro that are not necessarily there with Lupron.  Lupron does amount to chemical castration which may lower estrogen doses, it also poses some negative aspects with regards to feminizing the body.  I am surprised the endo is going this route because of the cost involved.  If anything is usually injectible, its usually delestrogen, which is relatively inexpensive and very effective when taken with spiro at reducing T.

[taru]

There are large variations by country what is considered a good way to handle the anti-androgen side.

There are three standard ways - 1) spiro (US), 2) androcur (Europe), 3) gnrh-agonists (Great Britain).

Spiro is the weakest way to hinder testo-effects, but adequate at higher dosages. Androcur is quite effective but has an evil side-effect profile. Gnrh-agonists (lupron, zoladex) are very expensive and thus not usually used without socialized health care.

[mclova84]

WOW thank you ALL for SOOOO Much information!!!! I was away from my computer for a day and came back to nearly double the post!  You ladies definitely know what you are talking about!

I have a meeting tomorrow with my endo. doc. so I will hopefully straighten all of this out.....SO from what I have read ladies it sounds like I should stear clear of Lupron (mainly for the COST!!!) and see about taking Estrogen and Spiro....should I also add Dutasteride to the regimen to help combat some of my Male Pattern Baldness or should Estrogen and Spiro alone handle that??? (I have had thinning for about 2 years - more heavily in the last couple of months - been on propecia 1mg for a year now - little affect)?

Ok thanks ladies!!!!!!!! Night Night!

[taru]

Taking spiro+estro+dutasteride (avodart) sounds good with the hair loss.

Dutasteride is typically more expensive than generic finasteride (but cheaper than propecia) and works better at blocking DHT. If you are on dutasteride you can probably stop finasteride (but ask your doctor).

[gothique11]

I'm only on spiro. No a very high dose, and I only take it once a day. I asked my doc about upping it or trying something else, but he's weary of  upping it because I already have quite low T and apparently some T is good. I can't have my levels at 0, in other words. So, it's on the lower end of what natal females have.