Radio Hosts Mock Transgender People

[suzifrommd]

it was their opinions and they are free to say them out loud.

Actually, no.

Legally, I'm not free to announce on the air that you are a known criminal, or are mentally ill, or spread any other untruth that can harm you.

That's called slander and you're entitled to legal remedies if I do that.

Likewise, if I spread untruths about an entire group, it's considered hate speech, and there are penalties that apply.

Freedom of speech simply does not include spreading untruths about a person or group.

[Hayley]

It seems they have been fired as of 10am this morning.

https://twitter.com/989thebuzz/status/469477594212352000 🔗

[Ltl89]

I think there is misunderstanding as to where the first amendment applies and what the exlcusions to it are.  Here are a few links on the subject that might be somewhat helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States 🔗
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions 🔗    *
http://verdict.justia.com/2014/03/12/first-amendment-exceptions-justified 🔗
https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus 🔗
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.html 🔗

While the business in question has the right to employee who they desire, the host's speech is protected from government penalties under the first amendment.  They can, however, be penalized by their employer if they feel they aren't a good representative of their company and believe they hurt their bottom line.  It's just not a violation of the first amendment for them to say what they said nor is it for the business to take whatever action they see fit. Personally, I take the ACLU's position on the topic as I think that's the best way to move forward.   Silencing people will only create more hostility and resentment rather than promoting true acceptance that we strive for.  We can fight back against it and respond to them rather than force them to agree. 

* Edited to include an additional link.

[suzifrommd]

Suzi your entitled to have whatever opinion you want babe. But please refrain from implying that those of us who have CHOSEN not to speak out on this occasion, for various reasons, is a sign of weakness/apathy or being plain old lazy.

I'm really sorry. I didn't not at all mean to imply that we're apathetic or lazy.

My intention was twofold. First to point out that for those groups whom it is now socially unacceptable to publicly deride, that happened because those groups spoke out and refused to accept the treatment. And second, to point out that that so many people in our community have decided against doing what those groups did.

If I said implicitly or explicitly that we are lazy or apathetic, that is not what I meant, and I apologize.

[HoneyStrums]

The true picture of trans people.
Will be painted by us and those who know us.

"Did you see that thing on the news the other day?"

"There not all like that, my freinds freinds mothers sisters not like that at all. Ive met her shes a good person to be honest, and is likey to be just as offended by this persons behavour as you and me."

"realy but any man would have to be crazy to get their thing chopped off"

"Exacly? but a woman with one wouldnt. I Know if I had one Id want rid of it"

"but the news said..."

"so i should treat you like a murderer because the last 15 murderes on the news were men?"

"but im not a murderer...."

"I Know that, but i know that because I Know you. Just like I Know shes not like that person in the news."

But, that said.
This could be just hope. But without hope what is there. Ill still try and work towords this because It wont happen at all if i dont try. Also I read a lot of comments in responce to the origional link. And from what it seemed most them came from cis allies. things like "they get surgeries to conform to our binery norms" and "all they want to do is be who they are inside".

I Understand why the company fired them. But i still in some way wish tey hadnt been. I think that it will just add fuel to their hate of us. But its not antil people start getting fired for hating us, that people will stop fireing us because they hate us. If they dont want to loose their job for hating us they should understand its not fair for us to be fired for that same hate. And the only way this can happen is if haters loose their job because of it too.

Anyway sorry for ranting. It just hurts me to see such thing cause division amongst good people.

[Ltl89]

I Understand why the company fired them. But i still in some way wish tey hadnt been. I think that it will just add fuel to their hate of us. But its not antil people start getting fired for hating us, that people will stop fireing us because they hate us.

This is where I am coming from as well.  Likely this will only spur up anger rather than address the problems that transpeople really face.  I feel like facing those opinions and speaking out against them does more to advance understanding than forcing someone to comply by punishing them.  It creates a reverse victim mentality rather than addressing the real discrimination and problems that we face in this world.  But again, they were being jerks by calling us nutjobs and the station is well within their rights to decide they don't want them on their staff.  I just wish their was more compassion for us as people and understanding that medical care isn't reduced to cosmetic procedures and that we face denial of coverage for basic things that are considered necessary for any other person seeking treatment (like prescriptions, blood work, and doctors visits).  The lack of empathy for others and their name calling really disturbs me, but I'm not sure firing someone and taking away their livelihood was the right way to handle this.

[L00T]

Here is an apology they issued:

"We are very sorry for the hurt and pain we have caused anyone, especially those in the Transgender community and their friends and families. What we said and the manner in which we handled ourselves was wrong, we take full responsibility and we deeply apologize to any and all that we offended.

Our attempt was to discuss a controversial healthcare issue; however our lack of sensitivity and understanding of the Transgender people and their plight created 12 minutes of radio we that wish we could take back.

We fully understand Entercom's position and their decision to dismiss us. It is their right and we accept their decision and our responsibility in it. Entercom has been and will continue to be a strong advocate for the LGBT community and we are proud to have been helpful in Entercom's efforts over our 13 years with the company.

It is our hope that this situation can be a time of learning and understanding about the Transgender community and not a time for additional anger and insensitivity. This is a community of individuals that struggle painfully to be themselves and find the support and comfort they deserve. We believe that this can be a chance for all of us to stop the ignorance and find our humanity."

Translation: Hey, we're sorry that we got fired for our ignorant views. We're going to issue this apology so that we can be hired somewhere else. It has nothing to do with how many people we hurt.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Here is an apology they issued:

We believe that this can be a chance for all of us to stop the ignorance and find our humanity."

That part in particular is utterly hilarious. What a couple of fake schmucks.

[suzifrommd]

Translation: Hey, we're sorry that we got fired for our ignorant views. We're going to issue this apology so that we can be hired somewhere else. It has nothing to do with how many people we hurt.

L00T, for my part, I'm willing to believe them. Their apology was worded in a very empathetic way.

I'm embarrassed to say that I shared many of their ignorant views (though I had a respect for trans people they didn't have) before learning more about them (and stumbling across the revelation that I was one). It took surprisingly little knowledge to realize how utterly lacking in empathy I'd been.

[L00T]

L00T, for my part, I'm willing to believe them. Their apology was worded in a very empathetic way.

I'm embarrassed to say that I shared many of their ignorant views (though I had a respect for trans people they didn't have) before learning more about them (and stumbling across the revelation that I was one). It took surprisingly little knowledge to realize how utterly lacking in empathy I'd been.

I'd be more willing to believe Kimberly if she hadn't tweeted about how sorry she wasn't after the uproar started. It just seems like she wasn't sorry until after it affected her career.

But I am with you on hoping that they at least learn something from this and realize that Trans people are just like everyone else and we don't want that kind of misinformation to define us.

[Ltl89]

I'll accept their apology.  We all make mistakes and need to be willing to forgive the same way we would like to be when we are in the wrong.  In this case, the tone of their argument warranted an apology regardless of what one thinks on the insurance issue itself.  I'm glad that at least said this much after being let go.  While it may not be sincere or motivated for career purposes, I don't like to keep a grudge and believe in second chances.  It's when a long pattern of hate forms that I'm unwilling to forgive. But that's just me being the nut job that I am, lol. 😉

[Ms Grace]

Sometimes it takes a loss of some magnitude and/or a massive slap down "from above" before people reevaluate their behaviour and attitudes.

[Jess42]

There is only one thing though, did the apology come from their hearts or like someone else said to just be a hireable at another station?

Say I call LTL (hypthetically LTL so don't get mad) a bad name. Ms Grace bans me, moderates me or whatever else and I really don't want to be banned or stay moderated or watched at Susan's and I apologize. It doesn't mean that I changed my opinion about LTL (still just using you as an example. I do have a high opinion of you) but is that apology genuine or is it just to save face and still be accepted and so on here at Susan's?

This is genuine though, sorry for using you in a hypothetical situation, LTL. I apologize. 🙁 What is in someone's heart may be totally different than what comes out of someone's mouth and when livelihoods or reputatons are at stake they'll say anything. Me personally I don't think they changed their stances as much as kissing up in order to find new jobs.

I don't think they should have been necissarily fired but that is up to the corporation they work for and the advertisers but make rather make ammends on air. Maybe by just having transgender people call in and explain how wrong they truly were. And apologize personally to them and then all the rest of us in way of a public apology. If they could run the gauntlent without losing thier cool and let those of us call in and have our say, it might have done our community a world of good.

[Ltl89]

There is only one thing though, did the apology come from their hearts or like someone else said to just be a hireable at another station?

Say I call LTL (hypthetically LTL so don't get mad) a bad name. Ms Grace bans me, moderates me or whatever else and I really don't want to be banned or stay moderated or watched at Susan's and I apologize. It doesn't mean that I changed my opinion about LTL (still just using you as an example. I do have a high opinion of you) but is that apology genuine or is it just to save face and still be accepted and so on here at Susan's?

This is genuine though, sorry for using you in a hypothetical situation, LTL. I apologize. 🙁 What is in someone's heart may be totally different than what comes out of someone's mouth and when livelihoods or reputatons are at stake they'll say anything. Me personally I don't think they changed their stances as much as kissing up in order to find new jobs.

I don't think they should have been necissarily fired but that is up to the corporation they work for and the advertisers but make rather make ammends on air. Maybe by just having transgender people call in and explain how wrong they truly were. And apologize personally to them and then all the rest of us in way of a public apology. If they could run the gauntlent without losing thier cool and let those of us call in and have our say, it might have done our community a world of good.

Why did you call me a bad name Jess?



I see what you mean and think that's very likely the case; however, I really like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  We've all done wrong before and have wished to be excused for our mistakes in the past.  That ability to be forgiven is really important and it's meant a lot to me when people educated me and gave me another chance.  Since I believe in treating people the way I want to be treated, I can't help but feel it would be wrong for me to be unforgiving of them.  Does that mean they are sincere?  Not neccessarily, but I have to see past my skepticism and give them the benefit of the doubt. It's only until patterns form and people show a consistent//unchanging behavior that I refuse to do that.   Still, I think you are probably right that this was put out only for PR purposes.

[Jess42]

Why did you call me a bad name Jess?



I see what you mean and think that's very likely the case; however, I really like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  We've all done wrong before and have wished to be excused for our mistakes in the past.  That ability to be forgiven is really important and it's meant a lot to me when people educated me and gave me another chance.  Since I believe in treating people the way I want to be treated, I can't help but feel it would be wrong for me to be unforgiving of them.  Does that mean they are sincere?  Not neccessarily, but I have to see past my skepticism and give them the benefit of the doubt. It's only until patterns form and people show a consistent//unchanging behavior that I refuse to do that.   Still, I think you are probably right that this was put out only for PR purposes.

For the record, I did not call you a bad name, just thinkin' it

BTW I'm kind of like you or at least used to be by giving people the benfit of the doubt. But I have been burned so many times by giving them the benefit. But sometimes you just have to take things because what is truly in someone's heart may actually soincide with what ocmes out of their mouth. And yes, I am a little gullible and and an actual trusting person even after being burned so many times. Now I am a little more skeptical but even though I forgive it takes me a while to forget.

Shhh, don't tell Ms Grace I called you a bad name. 😉

[Amy1988]

Story and Audio: http://www.towleroad.com/2014/05/kimbeck.html 🔗

""Transgender or gender nonconforming. What the hell does that mean? Like you're not a woman or a man??

"The dude can look like a lady and the city is going to pay for it!" (cue "Dude Looks Like a Lady" music)

"Does that mean then if women want a boob job they'll pay for a boob job because that's only right."

"The services that will be paid for under the new coverage - gender reassignment surgery, PSYCHOLOGICAL COUNSELING, because you're probably a NUTJOB to begin with!"

"It's a slippery slope. Then if some woman can go to a doctor and it'd be proven that she's got mental issues because her rack's not big enough then you know what? she deserves a boob job, Right Kimberly? Or she deserves liposuction."

"Right, IF YOU CAN PROVE YOU'RE A NUT, I guess."

Kimberly and Beck then go on to discuss female trans athletes, including one at a local school, and how they should definitely not be able to play sports...

"When he steps up to the plate, doesn't he have two bats?"

Finally, a woman calls in to tell them "it's incredibly disrespectful towards transgender people. Please don't spread any misinformation especially when you're joking about it."

One of the hosts replies: "Thank you, SIR" as the others laugh."

Listen to the audio on the page above. It's really gross how they mock the listener calling them.

Oh Well freedom of speech I guess but does this radio station actually have sponsors?  It would be interesting to know who would be stupid enough to openly advertise a product or service on something as socially volatile as this.

[Amy1988]

It seems they have been fired as of 10am this morning.

https://twitter.com/989thebuzz/status/469477594212352000 🔗

Freedom of speech ONLY projects speech. I does not provide protection against legal consequences that result from speech.  I guess these two idiots didn't know that when they opened their mouth. 

[Amy1988]

Here is an apology they issued:

"We are very sorry for the hurt and pain we have caused anyone, especially those in the Transgender community and their friends and families. What we said and the manner in which we handled ourselves was wrong, we take full responsibility and we deeply apologize to any and all that we offended.

Our attempt was to discuss a controversial healthcare issue; however our lack of sensitivity and understanding of the Transgender people and their plight created 12 minutes of radio we that wish we could take back.

We fully understand Entercom's position and their decision to dismiss us. It is their right and we accept their decision and our responsibility in it. Entercom has been and will continue to be a strong advocate for the LGBT community and we are proud to have been helpful in Entercom's efforts over our 13 years with the company.

It is our hope that this situation can be a time of learning and understanding about the Transgender community and not a time for additional anger and insensitivity. This is a community of individuals that struggle painfully to be themselves and find the support and comfort they deserve. We believe that this can be a chance for all of us to stop the ignorance and find our humanity."

Translation: Hey, we're sorry that we got fired for our ignorant views. We're going to issue this apology so that we can be hired somewhere else. It has nothing to do with how many people we hurt.

Apologies always make me laugh.  If they were really sorry they wouldn't have said those things to start with.  The only thing they are sorry about is losing their job and now they are worried about future employment.  As far as work in the media they can forget it.  That bigoted crap will follow them around for the rest of their lives.  It just astounds me that in this age of political correctness people are still stupid enough to say crap like that IN THE MEDIA!!!

[Miss_Bungle1991]

It just astounds me that in this age of political correctness people are still stupid enough to say crap like that IN THE MEDIA!!!

Well....hmmm...honestly....I HATE the idea of "political correctness" and think it's a vile thing that has been brought about. "Political Correctness" is just a phrase that is used to stifle free speech.

But before y'all decide to come after me with pitchforks and torches, let me say this:

I don't see it so much as "being PC" (ugh....*shudders*) I see it as more like being a decent and civilized human being (in its true form. not all of that twisted crap that some people try to make into being, like bigots tend to do.) I think the media tends to distort things and coupling that with how dense some people can be, you have this whole "PC" thing that muddles it all in the end.