Can't decide between spiegel and zukowski advice appreciated

[Tsallysummers]

Dr Z or Dr S for FFS work.

I have a smaller brow bone, but there is a dent above the glabella (which is slightly larger) and above that theirs an odd bump that's uneven with the rest of my forehead when I feel it. I also have a round WIDE jaw and a weak, small round chin which I don't like at all I am looking for more of a heart shaped face. Any advice would be great I can't decide between the 2 doctors since I can't find any pics of someone with a similar issue. Also need a trachea shave (it is small but I fly a lot and if I lay my head back on the plane it looks awful and I would get a brow lift of course. I kind of have trained myself to raise my eyebrows constantly (the only time I don't do it is when I'm sleeping and I might actually do it then too.) so I don't have any pictures where you can see how low my brows are relaxed my face just looks awful I am 23 and it makes me look 30 plus lol.

I'm going to post a couple of pics so you can understand the issue.
The last pic I had my nose and chin lipo but its the only profile pic I have on my computer right now, my camera on my phone is messed up.

Pictures keep tilting even though they look fine when I open them on my laptop sorry i have no idea what to do.





Mod edit: the problem with the pics was that you had set a height value in the IMG tag, I've removed the values, seems OK now.

[Rhi]

Hi Sally, you look great. I am suffering the same dilemma,which is why I joined. Am booked to see one or the other on July 17th and cannot make up my mind and it is coming to the crunch. I am wanting jaw reduction and that's it. If anyone has some suggestions and/or experience some feedback would be much appreciated

Thanks

Rhi

[angel0202]

I could definitely help, iv don't lots of jaw and chin work research. Iv chosen Dr Z based on his Chin/jaw work on 2 girls I seen on youtube "->-bleeped-<-girl15" and "Michelle hendley" they both document their ffs experience.

However im no expert but In my opinion I think you would benefit strongly from a chin implant, your chin height seems to be too short, which is very good for passing but obviously you want it to look different, I would totally look into a chin implant, I know dr zukoswki uses them. I don't know all the pros and cons about them, but you need something added to your chin. From what I see that is all you need for the bottom half, your jaw only looks wide as your chin is short, at least I think..

[Tsallysummers]

I could definitely help, iv don't lots of jaw and chin work research. Iv chosen Dr Z based on his Chin/jaw work on 2 girls I seen on youtube "->-bleeped-<-girl15" and "Michelle hendley" they both document their ffs experience.

However im no expert but In my opinion I think you would benefit strongly from a chin implant, your chin height seems to be too short, which is very good for passing but obviously you want it to look different, I would totally look into a chin implant, I know dr zukoswki uses them. I don't know all the pros and cons about them, but you need something added to your chin. From what I see that is all you need for the bottom half, your jaw only looks wide as your chin is short, at least I think..

I definitely agree spiegel actually told me I needed a sliding genioplasty I did a consultation with him on youtube, the thing is I like his subtle approach to the jaw but his foreheads are so flat, I like the fact that Dr. Z gives a rounded forehead. Plus spiegel gives too pointy chins, and he doesn't pull up the eyebrows as much as I'd like, in the frontal pictures all of them I am doing the suprised eyebrow and I don't feel spiegel would give me the same look.

I have seen alot of work and it seems the androgynous girls which I am fairly sure I would be considered do VERY well with spiegel but I want this to be one time I do not want to have to get my forehead redone because he left something there which I have seen alot of in terms of mayers, atler, and some of spiegel (never seen that problem on Zukowski AT ALL!)

[angel0202]

I definitely agree spiegel actually told me I needed a sliding genioplasty I did a consultation with him on youtube, the thing is I like his subtle approach to the jaw but his foreheads are so flat, I like the fact that Dr. Z gives a rounded forehead. Plus spiegel gives too pointy chins, and he doesn't pull up the eyebrows as much as I'd like, in the frontal pictures all of them I am doing the suprised eyebrow and I don't feel spiegel would give me the same look.

I have seen alot of work and it seems the androgynous girls which I am fairly sure I would be considered do VERY well with spiegel but I want this to be one time I do not want to have to get my forehead redone because he left something there which I have seen alot of in terms of mayers, atler, and some of spiegel (never seen that problem on Zukowski AT ALL!)

Iv read dr ousterhouts book and he mentions that a small percentage of patients actually need their chin heights increased.

A recent example of Dr Spiegel is Gigi gorgeous also on youtube, at first I thought OMG HAS SHE EVEN HAD FFS as it was very very subtle but now I kinda like what he did with her face, except too conservative for me.. I have a type I or II forehead so I chose dr z, purely based on his work. Correct me if im wrong but even Dr Ousterhout uses an endoscope for a type I or II forehead.. 

[Tsallysummers]

I like ->-bleeped-<-girl15's forehead and her jaw was nice and subtle, I've seen people on here trash talking Dr Zukowskis work but in honesty the only flaw I have seen is probably his cheeks and he does give the exact same nose to every girl.

Chelle Hendley looks amazing NO CLOCKS AT ALL!

[Tsallysummers]

Iv read dr ousterhouts book and he mentions that a small percentage of patients actually need their chin heights increased.

A recent example of Dr Spiegel is Gigi gorgeous also on youtube, at first I thought OMG HAS SHE EVEN HAD FFS as it was very very subtle but now I kinda like what he did with her face, except too conservative for me.. I have a type I or II forehead so I chose dr z, purely based on his work. Correct me if im wrong but even Dr Ousterhout uses an endoscope for a type I or II forehead.. 

I can't see any browbone on her even before as gregory gorgeous so the result is Ehhh in my opinion I like her chin though he did very well with shaving it down.
I have no idea about Dr ousterhout to be honest, due to his age when I started looking into FFS and some horror stories I have heard from a few girls (apparently he has shaky hands and has even passed out once during surgery) I kind of skimmed over anything relating to him, lol.

[angel0202]

I didn't think the jaw and chin work on ->-bleeped-<-girl was that subtle, either way her and michelles jaw and chins look very good. My concern is the scar I will have but it doesn't put me off.

I wasn't too sure about the cheek implants, chelle never got them I believe, but had lipofilling in her cheeks.. Carmen carerra on youtube also went to dr z for breast augmentation and lipofilling, I like her result!

I basically chose dr Z as I have similar a similar jaw and chin to those above, and I love their outcomes so I know it will work for me. If I needed more bone work then id reconsider maybe.

I probably would have considered ousterhout but he is retiring in august, and also one concern I had was that he will only correct your facial measurements to that of a female, so I had it in my head my chin would only be reduced slightly, but I want a tiny chin, like what chelle hendley has... and i think dr z will do it. I doubt ousterhout would reduce it that much not to say he COULD

Hope I am making sense!

[angel0202]

I can't see any browbone on her even before as gregory gorgeous so the result is Ehhh in my opinion I like her chin though he did very well with shaving it down.
I have no idea about Dr ousterhout to be honest, due to his age when I started looking into FFS and some horror stories I have heard from a few girls (apparently he has shaky hands and has even passed out once during surgery) I kind of skimmed over anything relating to him, lol.

oh my god I could imagine that, whenever I mentioned to people I was considering a 80 year old surgeon they would gasp, and say surely he cant  be 80!

[Tsallysummers]

It doesn't look like Chelle had them, I did hear that spiegel does the jaw and chin through the mouth and that dr z doesn't is that what you are worrying about?

oh my god I could imagine that, whenever I mentioned to people I was considering a 80 year old surgeon they would gasp, and say surely he cant  be 80!

And yes you can actually google Jennifer Paris aka Yasmine Petty she told me quite angrily DO NOT GO TO HIM apparently she went to him and during surgery he passed out and chopped off the tip of her nose, she told me she had to go to a doc in chicago who specializes in fixing noses with ear cartilage.

She said the rest of her work she went to Gary Atler I do not like his work it's half assed like the other NON FFS specialists.

[Jill F]

It doesn't look like Chelle had them, I did hear that spiegel does the jaw and chin through the mouth and that dr z doesn't is that what you are worrying about?

And yes you can actually google Jennifer Paris aka Yasmine Petty she told me quite angrily DO NOT GO TO HIM apparently she went to him and during surgery he passed out and chopped off the tip of her nose, she told me she had to go to a doc in chicago who specializes in fixing noses with ear cartilage.

She said the rest of her work she went to Gary Atler I do not like his work it's half assed like the other NON FFS specialists.

I know Dr. Alter.  He refers transwomen to Dr. Harrison Lee for FFS procedures now.

[angel0202]

It doesn't look like Chelle had them, I did hear that spiegel does the jaw and chin through the mouth and that dr z doesn't is that what you are worrying about?

And yes you can actually google Jennifer Paris aka Yasmine Petty she told me quite angrily DO NOT GO TO HIM apparently she went to him and during surgery he passed out and chopped off the tip of her nose, she told me she had to go to a doc in chicago who specializes in fixing noses with ear cartilage.

She said the rest of her work she went to Gary Atler I do not like his work it's half assed like the other NON FFS specialists.

Yeah basically worried about how bad the scar will be under my chin.

And there was a post specifically on yasmines ffs result on this forum but people decided to say negative things so not sure if its still online, people said she went to dr O for "the works"

either way I personally love her result. Id love cheeks that full but no idea if a cheek implant is a good idea... I worry about not being able to talk properly so ill decide after I get lipo filling.

[Tsallysummers]

I know Dr. Alter.  He refers transwomen to Dr. Harrison Lee for FFS procedures now.

Ahh ok, thats good to many doctors try to make a profit off us and aren't really specialized IMO.








BTW this is the kind of Chin and Jaw I am looking for.

[angel0202]

Ahh ok, thats good to many doctors try to make a profit off us and aren't really specialized IMO.








BTW this is the kind of Chin and Jaw I am looking for.

I would advise you to look outside of FFS surgeons as what you want to do to your chin is add a little masculinity to it? Like I say im no expert!

[Tsallysummers]

Yeah basically worried about how bad the scar will be under my chin.

And there was a post specifically on yasmines ffs result on this forum but people decided to say negative things so not sure if its still online, people said she went to dr O for "the works"

either way I personally love her result. Id love cheeks that full but no idea if a cheek implant is a good idea... I worry about not being able to talk properly so ill decide after I get lipo filling.

I have actually spoken to her she said she didn't just her nose, she told me most of her work was by gary atler.
I think the too full look from cheek implants gives the same result as silicone which I don't think looks nice at all IMO of course.

I would advise you to look outside of FFS surgeons as what you want to do to your chin is add a little masculinity to it? Like I say im no expert!

The thing is I would want the jaw and chin done at the same time to make sure it is blended well.