Has the T-word been used against you? (trigger warning)

[Jenna Marie]

Incidentally, a couple years ago Amanda Bynes (a straight white actress) called RuPaul a nasty slur for a gay man - and he flipped out over it. He was hurt and offended and angry, and said/wrote a bunch of stuff about how that wasn't acceptable at all.

So it's not like he doesn't understand what it's like to be on the receiving end, and he didn't think HE needed a thicker skin at the time. I'm just baffled that he remains so clueless about why people are upset, at this point.

[HoneyStrums]

Incidentally, a couple years ago Amanda Bynes (a straight white actress) called RuPaul a nasty slur for a gay man - and he flipped out over it. He was hurt and offended and angry, and said/wrote a bunch of stuff about how that wasn't acceptable at all.

So it's not like he doesn't understand what it's like to be on the receiving end, and he didn't think HE needed a thicker skin at the time. I'm just baffled that he remains so clueless about why people are upset, at this point.

Thank you (Its ok to hurt people as long as its not me) Unfainess. sigh...

[Ltl89]

Incidentally, a couple years ago Amanda Bynes (a straight white actress) called RuPaul a nasty slur for a gay man - and he flipped out over it. He was hurt and offended and angry, and said/wrote a bunch of stuff about how that wasn't acceptable at all.

So it's not like he doesn't understand what it's like to be on the receiving end, and he didn't think HE needed a thicker skin at the time. I'm just baffled that he remains so clueless about why people are upset, at this point.

That's a great point and I forgot about it.  One difference, though, is the intent.  Ru Paul, whether right or wrong here, doesn't intend to hurt or upset anyone.  Well, actually I think he does in order to stir up controversy, but at least he hides behind that it's just a casual expression.  Amanda Bynes meant to inflict pain and it was clear that was her intention.  Sort of different scenarios, but you make a great point.

After being called many gay slurs for most of my life, I would be very careful before even kidding around with gay people by using them.  I'm wondering if Ru Paul is giving us the pass that he wants with us?  I'd never call him such names, as they are wrong and hateful, though I would like to hear what he'd say about it. 

[Heather]

Personally I put the blame squarely at the feet of the various LGBTQ "community".  It's a bad joke to call transsexuals part of that community as almost ALL the juice goes toward the homosexuals never mind that we all share in the squeeze and we are left with parched throats.

Sadly a lot of trans people are not apart of the gay community. You want to blame homosexuals but the vast majority of trans never get involved in the gay community. Maybe if more trans decided not to be so closeted about they're lives maybe they would be more willing to fight for trans rights.

[stephaniec]

Sadly a lot of trans people are not apart of the gay community. You want to blame homosexuals but the vast majority of trans never get involved in the gay community. Maybe if more trans decided not to be so closeted about they're lives maybe they would be more willing to fight for trans rights.

totally agree

[Androgynous_Machine]

Sadly a lot of trans people are not apart of the gay community. You want to blame homosexuals but the vast majority of trans never get involved in the gay community. Maybe if more trans decided not to be so closeted about they're lives maybe they would be more willing to fight for trans rights.

I agree we aren't very active in the community but I disagree with your reasons.

There are huge psychological, philosophical, emotional, and physical difference between transsexuals and homosexuals.  While yes, there are transfolk who are also homosexual, but the fight of homosexuality amongst homosexual transsexuals is small potatoes in the face of the larger problems of being a transsexual.  Furthermore a University of Minnesota study found that transsexuals are effectively split between the gay, bisexual, and straight orientations.  My point being, the gay agenda means squat to a third of all transsexuals.

-AM

[Heather]

I agree we aren't very active in the community but I disagree with your reasons.

There are huge psychological, philosophical, emotional, and physical difference between transsexuals and homosexuals.  While yes, there are transfolk who are also homosexual, but the fight of homosexuality amongst homosexual transsexuals is small potatoes in the face of the larger problems of being a transsexual.  Furthermore a University of Minnesota study found that transsexuals are effectively split between the gay, bisexual, and straight orientations.  My point being, the gay agenda means squat to a third of all transsexuals.

-AM

And how would you know what problems homosexuals face? I'm very much out in the gay community and I would never say they face less challenges than a trans person. They have hard lives too and don't think for a second they don't.

[HoneyStrums]

Maybe if more trans decided not to be so closeted about they're lives maybe they would be more willing to fight for trans rights.

And maybe if more who thought this did it, instead off sugesting others should it would achieve the same thing?
Didnt see you say me when I asked who?
This thread is NOT a blame game.
The OP is trying to achieve somthing with this. And keeping this thread going in a helpfull direction will do a lot more for ONE of us to do somthing about the situation.

[Ltl89]

Sadly a lot of trans people are not apart of the gay community. You want to blame homosexuals but the vast majority of trans never get involved in the gay community. Maybe if more trans decided not to be so closeted about they're lives maybe they would be more willing to fight for trans rights.

I think there is an unfortunate mutual animosity from gay and trans people regarding the whole LGBT community.  From what I have seen, gay people want us out and trans people want to break away.  Personally, I think that's the wrong move and we should be more invested in the outcomes of both struggles through a more inclusive community.  However, many vocal elements on both sides seem be against this and that is sad.  Maybe it's because I used to somewhat identified as a gay male in the past (despite the fact that I've always really have been a transwoman) and that's why I will always see a connection with both struggles.  We can do more together as a unit than seperate.  It's just that we need to respect the differences from within as well.  In any case, while I can agree with a broader lgbt community, I'm not sure we are totally at fault for the negative views against us.

And I would like to add, even if we aren't involved enough in gay causes and there are problems with the unity between members of the broader lgbt community , it doesn't give people a pass to use derogatory words either way.  We should all respect each other and part of that is being sensitive to hurting one another and apologizing when we inevitably screwup at times.  And the same can be said when homophobia is embraced in certain trans circles and sadly I've seen that happen at times as well.  Neither transphobia or homophobia are cool. 

[Androgynous_Machine]

And how would you know what problems homosexuals face? I'm very much out in the gay community and I would never say they face less challenges than a trans person. They have hard lives too and don't think for a second they don't.

I'm not one for splitting hairs because it's easy to get bogged down with mundane details but it is fair to say that homosexuals have a far, far, far, far, far, better shake in terms of employment, anti-discrimination laws, etc at the State level.  At the federal level it is unlawful to hire or not hire based on sexual orientation for federal jobs.

But hey, let's both agree to disagree that both transsexuals and homosexuals are equal in that regard.

Homosexuals (unless they also happen to be transsexual) do not have to fight tooth and nail to have hormones covered under health plans, electrolysis, FFS, GRS, et al.

It's a matter of priority if you will or rather a matter of self-actualization.  Orientation is an outward force that is explored after self-actualization comes to fruition, transsexualism is part and parcel of self-actualization.

-AM

[Heather]

I'm not one for splitting hairs because it's easy to get bogged down with mundane details but it is fair to say that homosexuals have a far, far, far, far, far, better shake in terms of employment, anti-discrimination laws, etc at the State level.  At the federal level it is unlawful to hire or not hire based on sexual orientation for federal jobs.

But hey, let's both agree to disagree that both transsexuals and homosexuals are equal in that regard.

Homosexuals (unless they also happen to be transsexual) do not have to fight tooth and nail to have hormones covered under health plans, electrolysis, FFS, GRS, et al.

It's a matter of priority if you will or rather a matter of self-actualization.  Orientation is an outward force that is explored after self-actualization comes to fruition, transsexualism is part and parcel of self-actualization.

-AM

Transsexualism??? When did being trans become a belief system? This is why try to keep my distance from the trans community these days.

[BunnyBee]

We both have it bad.  There is no prize given out for having it the worst.

[stephaniec]

We both have it bad.  There is no prize given out for having it the worst.

ditto

[HoneyStrums]

Sighs.....
OP please shed some light on your agenda and other points you would like discussed.

[Jenna Marie]

LTL : I agree about intent, up to a point; Bynes was lashing out in hate, and Ru Paul is not. Even so, there comes a point where enough people have said that they *are* hurt by this for him to reconsider whether it's worth taking this particular stand... does he really lose so much by giving up the word that it outweighs the damage people have outright said he's doing to them?

(Not arguing with you, but with him. I actually think yours is a brilliant question - would he let a trans woman call him that slur?? If so, y'know, I'd actually concede he's being consistent and I could probably let the whole thing go, personally.)

[Androgynous_Machine]

Transsexualism??? When did being trans become a belief system? This is why try to keep my distance from the trans community these days.

What?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transsexual
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/-ism


I used the appropriate suffix; the act of being a transsexual is transsexualism,  a state of being which falls directly on the self-realization or actualization pyramid:



-AM

[Kimberley Beauregard]

Trans people have the right to feel however they want about this word.

This is spot on, and it applies to everyone.  We don't get to control how others feel and exercising sensitivity isn't a bad thing.

And I agree with everything L2L has said in this thread, too.

[mandonlym]

Sighs.....
OP please shed some light on your agenda and other points you would like discussed.

I do think we're going a bit off-topic. I want to get a better sense of how people have experienced the word tr***y, since it didn't have the same derogatory connotation when I transitioned so I personally haven't experienced the word used against me in real life. As far as I can tell, the significant majority of people here, whether or not they're personally offended, do not like the term and consider it a slur.

I'm actually finishing an article right now (it's in editing) comparing how trans people are treated now compared to how gays were treated during the AIDS crisis in the 1980's. Funny enough, so much of what was being talked about then is how everyone is talking now, except it was the gay people asking for better treatment. IMO, we do need to fight but gay people are in much greater positions of power compared to us, and if they were in the position of demanding that straight people pay attention in the 1980's, it's reasonable for us to demand that they prioritize us now that they're the ones in positions of power.

And yes, I encourage everyone to be as disclosed as they can, though I also understand that it can be tough to do that. It helps. In just the month or so I've been out, I've seen a significant difference in trans awareness among various people I know, and also in myself in terms of my commitment to work on more rights for trans people.

[Androgynous_Machine]

it's reasonable for us to demand that they prioritize us now that they're the ones in positions of power.

You nailed exactly why I refuse to participate in LGBT groups.

I think the transgender community is better off fighting our own battles rather than waiting for the LGB to feed us some table scraps.


-AM

[BunnyBee]

I do think we're going a bit off-topic. I want to get a better sense of how people have experienced the word tr***y, since it didn't have the same derogatory connotation when I transitioned so I personally haven't experienced the word used against me in real life. As far as I can tell, the significant majority of people here, whether or not they're personally offended, do not like the term and consider it a slur.

I'm actually finishing an article right now (it's in editing) comparing how trans people are treated now compared to how gays were treated during the AIDS crisis in the 1980's. Funny enough, so much of what was being talked about then is how everyone is talking now, except it was the gay people asking for better treatment. IMO, we do need to fight but gay people are in much greater positions of power compared to us, and if they were in the position of demanding that straight people pay attention in the 1980's, it's reasonable for us to demand that they prioritize us now that they're the ones in positions of power.

And yes, I encourage everyone to be as disclosed as they can, though I also understand that it can be tough to do that. It helps. In just the month or so I've been out, I've seen a significant difference in trans awareness among various people I know, and also in myself in terms of my commitment to work on more rights for trans people.

I think of it like gay is the new black, trans is the new gay, and the new trans is... idk, leftover garbage?  But you see gay people having some very analogous breakthroughs these days to the ones black people achieved in the 50s/60s, and you see very similar reactions by society to the progress (not always the best.)  I think trans people find themselves now, like you say, in a place similar to gay people when they were sitting right there on the cusp of breaking out of the shadows, and if we bide our time (well, and fight for it) it's gonna get better.  In fact it has gotten measurably better- we have achieved higher status than garbage.  That's a start.

I don't really see the point of trying to win the who has it worst contest though.  We have it bad, gay people also have it quite bad, despite the progress.  And we should absolutely root for them, cause it's our turn next.