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Losing friends to suicide

Started by androgynouspainter26, June 12, 2014, 10:34:43 PM

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androgynouspainter26

It's been almost a year since I lost a good (trans) friend, and I just thought it might help to share my experience, and ask if anyone else knows a thing or two what I'm going through.  Losing a good friend is always hard, but when it's a suicide, things get even harder-I can't help but ask myself "what if I had reached out to him that day?".  People keep saying that there is nothing anyone could have done-but I don't really believe that.  If you've fallen into a dark place, having a friend there is sometimes all you need.  At least I've learned to treasure the people I have all the more for it-I think he'd have liked teaching me a lesson in such a macabre way.  He had a twisted sense of humor-I miss it.
My gender problem isn't half as bad as society's.  Although mine is still pretty bad.
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Jessica Merriman

I know what you mean. The question I often ask myself being a Paramedic was "Did I miss any warning signs". Sometimes there just aren't any. When you get that close to someone the familiarity of the person often covers the signs. You just get used to them being there and don't scrutinize them. It does give you a heads up view after that. I treasure all my friends now and make sure I know what is going on in their lives and their moods.  :)
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androgynouspainter26

Exactly!  I can't imagine what it must be like for a professional in your shoes...but still, the entire thing just feels surreal, like something out of a novel-except that in a novel, there's foreshadowing, and what happens makes sense.  This just doesn't make sense, and I think that's why it bothers me so much. 
My gender problem isn't half as bad as society's.  Although mine is still pretty bad.
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Jessica Merriman

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on June 12, 2014, 10:57:22 PM
the entire thing just feels surreal
That is how I felt when my friend killed himself. It's like they are still supposed to be here and nothing is wrong. I almost expect to walk in some place and see him. I know he's gone, but it just feels like he is not, you know? :-\
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androgynouspainter26

That's how death usually is...although these days we usually have time to prepare ourselves for it.  Every loss I had experienced before him was  expected; and I'd be lying if I said I was surprised when I heard he had done it (which is the worst part of all) but I simply had no idea...so we aren't able to say goodbye, and to compensate we never really accept the loss-or am I babbling?
My gender problem isn't half as bad as society's.  Although mine is still pretty bad.
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Felix

I've lost some friends to suicide, but the ones I feel the most guilt over aren't the ones I was closest to. There was one, my roommate's fiance, who I could have helped and I didn't. She used to try to get me to hang out, and I never wanted to. I wasn't very friendly. I've never been very friendly. Right before hanging herself, she called me and invited me to go shopping. I shot her down harder than I should have. I don't like shopping. I told her shopping was stupid and she couldn't pay me to go to the mall. It didn't feel so nasty a response at the time. She asked me about her boyfriend and I said something about how it sucked that he was cheating on her again. I thought she already knew about it. It was so obvious. I was trying to show empathy and be there for her, but all I did was make her understand that I wasn't the only one who was rejecting her.

Her brother said that their dad found her hanging, and that she was still breathing, choking. Dad got angry because she'd tried it before, and he stormed out and slammed the door. I'm not sure who misses her, and I feel bad that I don't. I never missed her. I couldn't be bothered to care. I feel like if I had cared, she'd be alive and maybe even happy.

One time my dad's brother called my mom and asked if he could come over because he was sad and didn't want to be alone. My mom was flippant and told him to stay away, that she had kids and didn't want that negativity around. He drove to the police station and shot himself in the parking lot.

I've had some other acquaintances and friends kill themselves, but those two rattle around in my head too much.

Suicide seems very common. It's usually not a surprise, but it's still hard to live with. A person just ending when they should still be there. You should be able to call them, laugh with them, make them mixtapes, but there's nothing there.
everybody's house is haunted
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Natkat

I include many of my friends I know have tried suicide but it have never succeded, then last year one of my very close (trans) friend comitted suicide by jumping out of a hospital window and I been devastating long time after and still miss him :'(

I was not 100% surprize of it, he did not seam as a type to comite suicide but he was in a difficult situation and when he out of sudden stop writting to me which he did almost everyday, I got these small fellings that "what if" but I tried to ignore them not to worry and also because I was very busy at that time with school. I remember once I talked with my teacher that I got this very bad felling and could not concentrate at all, I then ran down and called him imidently felling like this was really important but nobody answered the phone. I did not have his parrents number so I used alot of time to seach in registers untull I found it and when I did his dad told me he wad dead. it infected me alot of my everyday life. one of the things who bug me most is the felling that nobody would even understand exept me.
I tried to seach for people who knew him but he did not have many friends and they where not very close to where I live, his parrents neither wanted to talk to me.

I keep thinking if I had called him before if I could had made a chance, and I also keep wondering what he thought before he comite suicide, I can not live without him so for me his still here somewhere as part of me.

I did writte about it last year short after I got the news.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150268.msg1247994.html#msg1247994
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helen2010

I have lost 2 friends to suicide the first took her head off with a shotgun following a very bad drug experience.  The second topped himself with drugs and alcohol in an upmarket hotel when he experienced a rapid deterioration from extremely aggressive MS.  He wrote to each of his friends, asked us to respect his decision, thanked us for our friendship and asked us not to be angry with him or with ourselves for not seeing this coming. 

I was upset by both - the first because it was such a waste and the second because I had not seen his despair and been there for  a final conversation - the letter just reinforced that those who he counted as friends were not close enough to have been there for him... this hurt almost as much as losing him from our lives.
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Jess42

When I was in the military, I lost a friend due to suicide. Only because he was getting kicked out because of weight issues and his dad told him not to come home. Big military family. Sux huh? I had an extra duty called Graves Registration and actually had to go out with the main guy whose MOS was specifically handling mortuary affairs that the next morning and recover the body. What bites is I saw him in the club that night and he just didn't act right. Talked to him even but seemed like he was in a hurry. Maybe if I would have noticed the 9mm in his jacket pocket that he didn't turn in after he got off duty and that something just wasn't right I could have stopped it or even noticed his aggitated mood. But a lot of guys would normally get drinking and spend a lot of money on the bar girl's drinks and then get all upset when they wouldn't go to the hotels with them so really nothing too unusual in that. I also should have noticed and actually did notice more MPs walking through the clubs that night. Again nothing really unusual but more than normal. But hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
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Satinjoy

I have not been touched by this, but now that I am here and also out, I think I may become exposed to it.  The folks here probably just disappear from the forum.

Its one of the reasons I post.  To share hope and stay alive. 

We lose people to booze all the time in AA.  Just a fact of life, you get a bit callous unless they are really close to you.

We are an endangered species, but we are not alone any more.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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androgynouspainter26

I suppose there are a few questions that come up-firstly, is it right of us to say that the actions of someone aren't correct?  For instance, I understand why someone with rapidly progressive MS would do such a thing, and in a hypothetical situation I can't rule out the option myself.  I almost feel like judging my friend's actions are an insult to his life, his judgement, and his choice to die.  He was facing homelessness, would not be able to transition, had just been disowned by his family, didn't have friends good enough to take him in, and wasn't eligible for any services for youth because he has just turned 18-and still needed a few credits to get his diploma.  Can we really look someone like that in the eye and tell them they have a good, happy, easy life ahead with no family, no friends, no education, and no real way out?

And then there's the question of responsibility.  I wasn't surprised, to be honest; several of you all say the same.  If we knew and didn't do anything, that makes us accountable, no?  I don't believe in any higher order to the universe, but I still can't help the feeling that I need to pay some price for my negligence.  I killed him, the same as his mother and father and sister and other friends did.  I've made my peace with that, but I still haven't forgiven myself for it completely...
My gender problem isn't half as bad as society's.  Although mine is still pretty bad.
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Jess42

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on June 13, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
I suppose there are a few questions that come up-firstly, is it right of us to say that the actions of someone aren't correct?  For instance, I understand why someone with rapidly progressive MS would do such a thing, and in a hypothetical situation I can't rule out the option myself.  I almost feel like judging my friend's actions are an insult to his life, his judgement, and his choice to die.  He was facing homelessness, would not be able to transition, had just been disowned by his family, didn't have friends good enough to take him in, and wasn't eligible for any services for youth because he has just turned 18-and still needed a few credits to get his diploma.  Can we really look someone like that in the eye and tell them they have a good, happy, easy life ahead with no family, no friends, no education, and no real way out?

And then there's the question of responsibility.  I wasn't surprised, to be honest; several of you all say the same.  If we knew and didn't do anything, that makes us accountable, no?  I don't believe in any higher order to the universe, but I still can't help the feeling that I need to pay some price for my negligence.  I killed him, the same as his mother and father and sister and other friends did.  I've made my peace with that, but I still haven't forgiven myself for it completely...

Well androgynouspainter, I do believe in a higher order in the Universe and I really don't think suicide unless you are terminally ill is a good thing. But really I just can live my own life. How bad someone else's life is to them, I really can't say. I don't judge people that commit suicide and I really don't blame the ones around them that may have missed the signs because more often than not we don't see those signs until after and then it dawns on us. Responsibility to me is being empathetic, compasionate, willing to listen, to provide advice, provide a shoulder to cry on and help any person in need the best way we can and still that doesn't help sometimes because if someone has made their mind completely up then it will happen regardless.

I won't lie, sometimes people have such tremedously bad things go on in their lives that that is the only way out that they can see. How many of us are committing suicide unintentionally? I smoke which isn't good for the lungs and drink which isn't good for the liver. So eventually that will get me but I can be crossing the street and get hit by a drunk driver. Or be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be shot. In life there is death no way around it either by someone else's hands, fate or our own hands. So really I try not to say a person did the wrong thing because we may not know just how bad of a place they were in. Of course I would do whatever to try and help them see other options but in the end it is an action that they have decided to do and no one is to blame. My friend made up his mind, didn't tell anyone anything just didn't turn his weapon in at the end of his duty and took off. Nothing I could have said would probably not have changed anything plus he didn't out and out say anything about it, what I saw was a guy in a hurry and kind of agitated which happens to people on a daily basis. Only after the fact did I put all the peices together. If he would have told me he planned on commiting suicide then I could have really done something to help.

And no we are not accountable. I know if I ever decided to do it I would not want anyone feeling guilt because it would be 100% my choice, no one else's. And chances are that if things were that bad and I made my mind up I wouldn't tell anyone anyway. We may feel guilt over it and grieve for the person, but in the end it is like anything else a personal decision and one that I really can't judge as right or wrong.
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Jill F

I know a LOT of people who have comtemplated it, tried it (myself included), and unfortunately, plenty who have succeeded.  One of my childhood friends did it with painkillers, xanax and booze just a few weeks ago.  Hearing that news never gets easier.  I always ask myself if there's something I could have done, but inevitably come to the conclusion that I am essentially powerless to prevent such things and nothing good can ever become of kicking myself in head over it. 

I wish people would consider the grief, misery and the lifelong psychological scars they will cause to others before they carry out the permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Big hugs to all of you who have lost friends and family to their own hands.
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Satinjoy

The best we can do is follow our instincts, not hold back if we get that gut feeling that we need to share hope and strength.  But what happens after that is not under our control, and suicidal thoughts and scenarios are best handled by the mental health professionals.  I have 2 daughters that were stalked and had to get them into psych wards to save their lives from depression caused by the constant pressure of the stalker.  that was my responsibility as a father.  But it was the pros responsibility to take it from there, and mine to get them to the pros.  But they are close, I had control.  Where I have no control, I can only share my experience, strength and hope with them, and turn the rest over to God to handle.  Ultimately it is their responsibility to seek help if they are accountable.  There will be casualties, this world is a war, and there will be victories.  Our job is to not be a casualty and carry the message of what worked for us in the hope that it will help others.   We also must protect ourselves.  I am not so stable that I can go on the mtf site and fight for marriage as much as I used to.  I wish I was, but there are triggers to be avoided as I save my own skin and gather strength to go on.

But following gut instinct or spiritual leadings is important.

There are a few here that I think are in trouble.  But I don't think I can do much for them, only share my own experiences and ask them to find the beauty in themselves and nurture it.

Tough stuff.  The mental pros get people into the wards when it gets dangerous.  They get out of the way and get folks into a safe environment.

We are not mental pros.   We are simply survivors carrying the light to others.  The guilt would eat us alive if we thought we had the full power and responsibility on this one.  All we can do, is follow our God given instincts and our leadings, and best keep suggesting they seek therapy and fast.  This may sound like a cop out, and I am not saying that some phone time may be in order with those who are close to us, I am following one of the girls for just that, but we have to be very careful with taking on blame and guilt on this one. 

Just don't ignore that voice deep inside when it speaks to you.

So sorry for all of your losses.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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Natkat

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on June 13, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
I suppose there are a few questions that come up-firstly, is it right of us to say that the actions of someone aren't correct?  For instance, I understand why someone with rapidly progressive MS would do such a thing, and in a hypothetical situation I can't rule out the option myself.  I almost feel like judging my friend's actions are an insult to his life, his judgement, and his choice to die.  He was facing homelessness, would not be able to transition, had just been disowned by his family, didn't have friends good enough to take him in, and wasn't eligible for any services for youth because he has just turned 18-and still needed a few credits to get his diploma.  Can we really look someone like that in the eye and tell them they have a good, happy, easy life ahead with no family, no friends, no education, and no real way out?

And then there's the question of responsibility.  I wasn't surprised, to be honest; several of you all say the same.  If we knew and didn't do anything, that makes us accountable, no?  I don't believe in any higher order to the universe, but I still can't help the feeling that I need to pay some price for my negligence.  I killed him, the same as his mother and father and sister and other friends did.  I've made my peace with that, but I still haven't forgiven myself for it completely...

I don't feel I should blame people on suicide. its really peoples own life and pain they have to deal with, but since knowlegde of suicide in many place are illigal, and since it in general leave us behind with alot of pain I think it normal to feel very frustrated because we are both losing a friend and putting into situation whenever we knew about it or not we keep doubting our own influence and guilt.
I dont feel I killed my friend, I do regreat that I did not call him earlyer, but how could I had knew? he could as well had lost his computer and not having internet for 2 weeks?, I feel he was killed by the general system who had put him down for years. I do not blame his suicide but I wish he had stayed and I would promise to help him out, but I do realise maybe he felt like he already had tried hard enough, but I really wish he had tried a last time, he was in a hard situation but I do belive we could try to manage something, I am not complitely without influence and he did have a job and money which ability to move if nessesary. I belive we always have a choice but not always a easy choice, and I think if he had tried it would had been a hard try but it dosent mean it would had been imposible.

I guess it more easy when you feel someone ells is guilty than when you feel guilty yourself, I have tried to feel guilty once of a girl who was suicidal but I found out years later she never commited suicide.
she was very depressed and suicidal acording to her aunt, and during that time I had upset her quit alot and she stopped all contact with me. I felt very guilty for years and knew if she killed herself during the time I couldnt contact her, I could never fell pure of guilt because it would had been me who trigged her to take that step.
its a horrible feelling, but being realistic I think everyone as I say doubt our own influence but if the person was your friend I doubt you where the reason for the suicide.

suicide is not something you simple do because you been put down once or had a fight with your famely or friend, its a felling who been build up for a long time,

I do not know your situation I just speak from my experience. when I tried to comite suicide I did not blame it on my at that time not understanding parrents, or at fights I had got with classmates, I though of the hopeless situation that I could never be happy and I would be stucked like this forever, I did not see hope and that was why I wanted to die. I did not succede my suicide because I felt guilty to my famely. and I do belive if you been a good friend he would value you, even if you say you blame yourself cause you did not do enough, then you did try, it may had been more than someone ells had done.

I cant be an expert on your situation, but its normal to blame yourself and feel guilty whenever the reason seams logical or not.
when someone die its like your in a theater and the curtain gets drawn to the side so you see the face of death, he cuts you and you bleed
then they get drawn back again, your wond heal to a scar on your soul and you are able to move on.
I think what you feel is normal.
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Felix

I think suicide can be an ethical choice, but in only a tiny fraction of lives. We all have an obligation to not traumatize other humans. Even people who dislike you can be damaged by your actions, and there are a lot of glancing interactions that mean more to others than you think. When people kill themselves it should be the result of a lot of planning and forethought, and most people in the person's life should be on the same page about it.
everybody's house is haunted
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Trez123

My opinion is probably going to get a lot of controversy, but anyways. I have had a few friends pass away to suicide, I don't call it lost, because all of them are in a far better place than they were, somewhere up there. Wherever it is our spirit and energies go. I also had my younger brother (also trans*) pass to suicide last Christmas, just before Christmas. Of course, it hurts to not be able to physically see or touch them anymore, and for him it hurts more because I wanted so much to help him get where he needed to be, and to set some sort of example for him. That being said, his upbringing was just as bad as mine, if not worse, especially after he came out to his foster family. For years his foster father thought that he was deserving of sexual abuse and not being fed because he had "some disease that could never be cured". Nothing was ever done to get him out, and into a family that at least wouldn't abuse him for being trans*. Going through the wrong puberty was hard enough on him, and at the time hormone blockers were illegal here without going to family court, which he did, with his child safety person, but the judge always said no, just like they did for me. I wish I could have been there more for him during his difficuties, but I was still in foster care myself until June last year, and was going through processes of assessment and that for my own medical transition. I tried, we went back to family court together twice after I left foster care, but by that time he was too broken and depressed to feel worthy of being deserving of medical treatment, and his stage of puberty was too late to start blockers by then. He spent his last 4 months here in psych wards, locked up in seclusion rooms so he couldn't commit suicide and because he was psychotic, he had schizoaffective disorder, being drugged, had no say in anything at all because he was involuntary. He spent his first week out of hospital sleeping and crying, and the day before he left he took a picture of the note he wrote and sent it to me, apologising, but saying he couldn't be here anymore. I knew that was it, final, but I already had friends leave to suicide, and given his circumstances and understanding his pain, I never considered that he left, but he just moved on to some better place, like I said, wherever that may be. I tend to look at what lead him, and those others, to feel so low and hopeless, and that's what hurts the most. I actually smile thinking about whatever freedom they have gained, call me stupid and screwed up, I am, but I just see that whatever life they have as better than the living one they had here. I won't go into my spiritual beliefs and such, but it's what lead them to that, that hurts me the most. Because I suffer from it as well, or have and can't move on because of how I'm still treated. I guess I relate because I feel the same a lot of the time, that life would be better if I just passed away and got away from what this cruel world does.
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Colleen M

I used to be the office manager at a gun store.  Between "accidental" deaths, outright suicides, and conversations with the cops investigating things, I've had a *lot* of experience dealing with these things.  Honestly, that customer base is an older Bubba, and Bubba individually is a nice enough guy who doesn't eat right, deal well with health issues, or want to go though xmas after Mrs. Bubba passes away, so I can put names and faces together better than I'd like. I vividly remember a really nice fellow in his early 20s who shot himself, realized he'd made a mistake, called his mother to tell her he loved her, and bled out before she could get an ambulance there.  She was hopelessly torn between hanging up to get him help or talking to her dying son for just a few more seconds.  Still, what really sticks with me are the circumstances around finding the bodies.  It seems like it's either a family member or a troop of girl scouts, and neither of them takes it well.  Especially if the body has been cooking outside (it gets warm here) for a while.  I also didn't particularly enjoy seeing a face on the news and knowing where he'd been shopping the day before, never mind some of the loud noises in the parking lot.  I must admit, having a serious conversation with local police about a suicide and then having hotel dicks come by to lie their butts off in pointlessly prophylactic CYA attempts was hilarious, though.  A couple of the methods (you'd be amazed what you can do with a pickup truck and some steel cable) were quite inventive, too. 

Chronologically, the last thing it taught me was to find another line of work.  Before that, it taught me that--barring exceptional circumstances like medical nightmares--suicide is among the most selfish things anyone can ever do.  The consequences for the living, whether that's friends, family, the last people to see the deceased, the innocent six year old who discovers the body in the woods, or the hapless hotel maid who finds the body in the morning, are terrible.  If someone is determined to do that, they've made a decision that they simply don't care about the pain the survivors are going to feel.  You have to accept that it was their choice, that they made it without considering what anyone else wanted, and that by definition life goes on for the survivors.  When it happens around you, you are absolutely allowed to grieve the consequences of a loved one's bad decision to the fullest measure, but it's not a decision you can make for them. 

The other, more positive, thing all those suicides taught me?  When you say goodbye to a loved one, be prepared for them to die without your ever having the opportunity to talk to them again.  Never miss a chance to tell a loved one they are exactly that.                   
When in doubt, ignore the moral judgments of anybody who engages in cannibalism.
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