Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

Cutting weight and distribution

Started by Satinjoy, June 17, 2014, 07:34:59 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Satinjoy

Am walking 2 miles a day before breakfast, and on injections - Est cyp.  Serums finally will rise to Endo's goal in a few weeks.

Cutting weight hard 2 days a week at 1500 cals, staying 2K calories balance.  Goal is 135 at 5'9.  Now at 139 1/2.

Does it help redistribution to cut weight or is getting rid of the stomach fat more dependant on E serum levels and just maintaining weight?

Thanks all
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
  •  

carrie359

So,
Here is what happened to me... over a 8 month period.
I have lost about 60lbs.. actually had lost 70 and weighed the other day and got upset I had gained.
Anyway, I noticed that my bottom actually has been getting bigger and my thighs too.. my stomach is much much smaller.. I am a size 8 now..
So what I think happened is as I lost weight it was harder for it to come off in the girl spots and easy to get off the guy areas.
I also lost a lot of muscle.. a bunch.
I had 18 inch arms  was bodybuilding now they are 13.5..
Anyway.. sounds like you are doing what you need to do..
It just takes time...
Carrie
  •  

teeg

Fat (and muscle) doesn't move around. I was under the impression when I initially started HRT that my male fatty deposits would work their way over to female deposists. This is not so. However, testosterone is much better at making the body burn the calories it eats, estrogen is not. So I think it's probably common for people to gain a little weight after starting HRT which under the influence of estrogen deposits itself in female areas - giving the illusion that fat is moving to female areas.

You're on the right track Satinjoy. The body is designed to try to keep fat and muscle size (not mass) as long as it can in terms of a backup energy source for survival. We have to force our bodies to change in those regards.

Like you I started walking in a fasted state every day for at least an hour. I lost as much fat and muscle as I safely could, getting down to a very low BMI. I then returned to my normal lifestyle and the fat I regained went to female fatty deposit areas. The results were MUCH better than not doing anything but starting HRT. I sort of think of it as you have to reset your fat/muscle size to get noticable feminization.

Muscle size is also very important. Although we lose muscle MASS due to HRT, the size will stay relatively the same - again the body doesn't want to change so that if needed it can quickly return to where its muscles left off. Burning fat requires a metabolic state. If you workout longer than an hour I think you enter a catabolic state which burns muscle.

Make sure to take into account when you're both losing and gaining weight you need to do so safely. Also, since we do lose strength and muscle mass workouts, walks, etc. are a lot more challenging, they kinda suck... I've heard that progesterone increases appetite, so if you're on that and a caloric deficit diet be prepared for a tough journey.  :)
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: Satinjoy on June 17, 2014, 07:34:59 AM
Am walking 2 miles a day before breakfast, and on injections - Est cyp.  Serums finally will rise to Endo's goal in a few weeks.

No guarantee that his goal will produce optimal results in you. Each person is different. Sensitivity varies according to genetics and many other factors. Something to consider.

Quote from: SatinjoyCutting weight hard 2 days a week at 1500 cals, staying 2K calories balance.  Goal is 135 at 5'9.  Now at 139 1/2.

Does it help redistribution to cut weight or is getting rid of the stomach fat more dependant on E serum levels and just maintaining weight?

I personally don't think exercise can make one lose weight but is certainly good for toning muscles, heart health, mood, etc. At 140 and 5'6 1/2, I had no breast growth, barely any curves, sunken face. When I got in the 150's, that's when things started to happen.

Nutrition seems to be way more important and carbs do appear to increase fat deposition significantly. Good eating habits with an effective HRT and regular exercise will produce best results, I think.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: teeg on June 17, 2014, 05:31:50 PM
Also, since we do lose strength and muscle mass workouts, walks, etc. are a lot more challenging, they kinda suck...

Yup! I can't do guy pushups anymore. :( I suck!

Quote from: teegI've heard that progesterone increases appetite, so if you're on that and a caloric deficit diet be prepared for a tough journey.  :)

Caloric deficit never works. It is unhealthy, frustrating and you end up going back to how you ate before and gain even more weight. By increasing fat intake and reducing carbs, you lose weight without feeling hungry all the time, without counting calories. I have links to why this kind of eating lifestyle is perfectly safe and effective.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

E-Brennan

For the average person who is not all that clued in about what they're supposed to be eating, nor all that interested either, one of the most successful diets to reduce weight is simple calorie cutting.  It's a good place to start.  Weight gain is basically the result of eating too many calories, and the solution is to eat fewer.  No degree in rocket science necessary to count calories.

If you're aiming to lose weight and you're not a fitness junkie, download the "My Fitness Pal" app for your phone.  It's a very easy way to track your calorie intake - an idiot can use it properly.  Also tracks weight, breaks down the nutritional information etc.  Takes just seconds to enter an entire meal.

Set modest goals - 1lb per week? - and stick to your required daily calorie intake.  It works.  The calorie restriction per day for that kind of weight loss is minimal (500 less than the amount needed to maintain weight - I don't advocate any kinds of low-calorie diets where the dieter is basically starving herself because those types of diet are unsustainable).

For most people, they are overweight because they just don't realize how much food they're eating each day, and they're eating too much.  Once the food is actually tracked and then brought down into sensible levels, gaining or losing weight safely is not difficult at all.  Plus it's a good way to reset your perception of what a sensible portion size is and develop good eating habits that'll last a lifetime.
  •  

Carrie Liz

Redistribution isn't really redistribution. It's a very slow process where hormones will influence where new fat cells divide when they come in. Existing fat cells will not really die off, except after a VERY long time. (About 10% of your body's fat cells die and are replaced each year... and hormones can only influence where they're replaced. All that gaining or losing weight does is to shrink or grow the existing fat cells that are already there.) Basically, because of the way our bodies work, the only remedy is time and patience.

Losing the weight beforehand is generally recommended, though. Not because it will actually stay off of the areas that you want it to stay off of, but because once you start HRT it will be much more difficult to lose.

One question, though... are you seriously worrying about losing weight when you're 139 lbs? You do know that you're already almost 20 lbs lighter than the average woman, right? You're exactly at the weight that most women wish they could be at. So I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you.
  •  

Satinjoy

Oh so nice to hear from all of you

My dysphoria has hooked onto my belly.  It isn't big, but it used to look like I was a praying mantis that swallowed a pillow.

So I carry about 4 lbs there, aggravated by omnaprizil, which puts fat on the stomach.  And breasts, arguably.

Perfect weight at the bottom of the scale according to life insurance is 135.  135 is when I will not have that belly.  If I was bigger than A's I might not care.  I have the hips, and a good start after a year of hormones fluxuating around at too low levels (hopefully that's fixed now), and I was at 172 2 years ago when I started cutting.

I cut 1/2 to 1 lb a week.  I calorie deficit to 1500 one to two days a week, no more, usually back to back for effectiveness.  And I eat 2500 one day a week.  If I go over 2000 any given day I am likely to cut just in the morning afterwards to burn that off.  2000 is my maintainable goal, based on other posts here that seem to indicate that is a good number with exercise.

I was 140 this morning but had stuff in my system, binged yesterday at 2700.

And I eat what I crave, usually high protein stuff and low cholesterol as I am on the max Lipitor dose legal here.  Seafood, chicken, lots of egg whites and cheddar cheese.  But usually balanced with the carbs.

135 would totally finish the deal.  I am ok with 140, if it was on the hips and boobs, but it is hips and belly.  And I don't want to stunt boob growth either so I am ok with maintaining if the belly disappears magically through the est cyp injections.

Its almost there already.  The 2 mile one hour 5AM walk on calorie deprivation based on the night fast has been effective.  One of those miles is up 15% grade.  Wife and I are doing it together she is fighting diabetes successfully with this too.

Hope this clarifies.  The weight loss strat is based on what I got out of multiple Doc OZ episodes.  Worked great on those first 32 lbs.

I want that belly gone.  If it is, I got the girl body and she is a beauty.

Enjoy
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: __________ on June 18, 2014, 08:00:49 PM
For the average person who is not all that clued in about what they're supposed to be eating, nor all that interested either, one of the most successful diets to reduce weight is simple calorie cutting.  It's a good place to start.  Weight gain is basically the result of eating too many calories, and the solution is to eat fewer.  No degree in rocket science necessary to count calories.

I disagree. Calorie cutting and counting is not necessary at all and so complicated, time consuming! Please read the following links and make up your own mind. Simpler and more enjoyable diet where you don't have to starve and stress so much about what you eat. Besides, this kind of diet always ends up with you being hungry, frustrated and going back to how you ate before and regaining all the weight lost plus more...

Eat Fat And Grow Slim by Richard Mackarness (1958)
http://doczine.com/bigdata/2/1367179203_9e0b9b3b62/eat_fat.pdf

Good Calories, Bad Calories Gary Taubes, 2007 (FULL BOOK!) If it doesn't work the first time, try again by clicking to download, be patient, it might take a few minutes
http://ebookbrowsee.net/good-calories-bad-calories-gary-taubes-pdf-d411337273

The Stone Age Diet – Walter L Voegtlin – 1975
http://www.mitodascalorias.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Voegtlin_1975_The_Stone_Age_Diet.pdf

The Fat of the Land / Not By Bread Alone – Vilhjalmur Stefansson 1960
http://owndoc.com/pdf/The-fat-of-the-land.pdf

Adventures in Diet - Vilhjalmur Stefansson 1935
http://abelix.hive.no/wp-uploads/abelix.hive.no/2011/02/Adventures_in_Diet.pdf

Letter On Corpulence by William Banting 1864
http://www.thefitblog.net/ebooks/LetterOnCorpulence/LetteronCorpulence.pdf

STRONG MEDICINE – BLAKE F DONALDSON – 1962
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015003228171;skin=mobile#page/ii/mode/2up
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015003228171;view=1up;seq=7

If you are worried about saturated fats...read this
The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov
http://www.charlescoty.com/user/The%20Cholesterol%20Myths%20by%20Uffe%20Ravnskov.pdf
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth9.htm
References
http://www.ravnskov.nu/weblit.htm#002

Quote from: __________ on June 18, 2014, 08:00:49 PMFor most people, they are overweight because they just don't realize how much food they're eating each day, and they're eating too much.

It's not how much they eat but WHAT they eat that is the problem. Read Gary Taubes...and the rest. You'll see...plenty of studies, reports showing this to be true. And it's not rocket science! ;)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: Satinjoy on June 19, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
omnaprizil, which puts fat on the stomach.

Couldn't find this medication. Is it by any chance omeprazole? Olanzanpine? I know the latter leads to weight gain.

Quote from: Satinjoy on June 19, 2014, 11:13:48 AMWife and I are doing it together she is fighting diabetes successfully with this too.

Diabetes appears to be caused by excess sugar/carb intake causing excess insulin secretion and eventually insulin resistance and a reduction in insulin secretion. Lower your carbs and diabetes Type 2 can significantly improve, it seems from various reports.

Quote from: SatinjoyI want that belly gone.  If it is, I got the girl body and she is a beauty.

I hope you reach your goal soon. :)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 18, 2014, 09:36:58 PM
About 10% of your body's fat cells die and are replaced each year

Is this fact? Have studies shown this without a doubt and how have they come to this conclusion?
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

Satinjoy

Wow girl impressive research there

Be well, eat happy;)

I may stick to the plan though since I know it has been effective for me personally. Counting is a "piece of cake".  Habit of knowing the numbers.

I'll hit the links when time permits....

And enjoy my barbeques more

Yes I cant spell omeprazole

We are dong terrific on the diabetes and do avoid carbs

I hope I get the goal soon too honey.  Isn't dysphoria a b--tch.  All I see is the belly.  Why not all the rest of the changes?  Nature of dysphoria.

enjoy
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
  •  

KayXo

Quote from: Satinjoy on June 19, 2014, 11:37:04 AM
We are dong terrific on the diabetes and do avoid carbs

The only concern is when cutting carbs, you need to replace it with another fuel. Protein is not a good source of fuel, fats are! If you don't, then you'll feel tired and unwell in general.

Check out "rabbit starvation" where mostly protein is eaten...or high protein, low carb/fat diets...it's a disaster and very dangerous for one's health.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

LittleEmily24

If it helps:

I've been burning about 4000 calories a week with my workouts, sometimes even more than that, and I've been going down about 1-2 pounds a week ~ I am currently at 185 down from 235 (30 of which i lost from just dieting alone) and so far it looks like the fat is going to my breasts and butt... though right now its going more to my boobs than anything... my stomach keeps shrinking and shrinking and shrinking and because im doing little muscle training and LOTS of cardio, my muscle is reducing as per the cardio burning through my upper body muscle mass ~ in the last 4 months alone, ive gone down from a chest size of 45" to 38", and I highly doubt I'm anywhere near the point of hormones lowering muscle mass.. im only 4 months in and i think thats too soon to see any muscle mass reduction. I'm a size 10 in bottoms and over the last couple of months, every time i eat something "naughty" or when i have a little too much of a cheat day, my stomach remains flat (or at least as flat as it is now, i could afford to lose more) but my boobs have actually FINALLY become an A cup ^_^ or possibly an AA cup... not sure.

My secrets are the following:

- No carbs (maybe sometimes i will have a slice of whole grain bread in the morning, but thats it)
- Green Tea (organic green tea, whichever one you like, or really just tea in general is really good for you, as long as its organic)
- Black Coffee (not a whole lot, i drink maybe an espresso shot a every 1 or 2 days, i work in an office so its sometimes necessary in the early morning)
- LOTS of water and quite possibly ONLY water or water-based drinks, but i would suggest just plain water (boosts metabolism)
- One cheat day (or 2 cheat days on the off-weekend to help the fat go to the right places xD)
- Cayenne pepper!!! I put it on everything, it makes you feel full faster.. and if you like spicy, it adds a kick lol just don't go overboard, just a sprinkle will do.

I've only been hardcore training with cardio for only a month and 3/4, and when i started I was 199 now I'm 185... I lost 14 pounds in only 2 months. Im desperately trying to get rid of the little belly i have left before E starts slowing my fat burning capability, i think my T levels are still high enough that i burn fat easily. Oh, and i don't cut or count calories... i pretty much just use portion control and it seems to work well for me... even with the naughty foods, portion control is key... aint no shame in eating a decent slice of apple pie ^_^ or Lasagna, if I had to estimate, i would gather that I eat maybe 1000 calories a day and burn about 1500. I simply eat when I'm hungry and make sure I eat the right stuff, and the right amount :P I assume that the reason i've lost so much weight so fast is because with my body size, back then i would need about 2000 calories to maintain my body where it was, and because i literally cut that in half (which btw, im not sure if recommend, i'm just mildly psychotic) its been effectively melting the fat away.

Also, protein is good if you're gonna be tearing muscle so you can regenerate, and if you're gonna eat fat, make sure its good fat ~ nuts, avocados, eggs (which also give you protein so its like killing 2 birds with one stone) nut butters and fatty fish like salmon, tuna, etc. fish that are pretty much oily.
  •  

Carrie Liz

Quote from: KayXo on June 19, 2014, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 18, 2014, 09:36:58 PM
(About 10% of your body's fat cells die and are replaced each year...
Is this fact? Have studies shown this without a doubt and how have they come to this conclusion?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/health/research/05fat.html

Basically they did a study of patients who had undergone weight loss surgery, and determined that despite being thinner, the number of fat cells in the body remained constant. And when they tested the ages of the cells in patients who had liposuction, they found that all of the cells were quite young. So basically, yeah... cells are constantly renewing themselves, but the absolute number never changes.

(IMO, this kinda makes sense in explaining why teen girls take so long to get full breast and hip development, and why teen boys take several years to lose all of their childish fatty features.)
  •  

KayXo


Thanks for clearing that up! ;)

My own experience when starting HRT is that I gained 30 lbs and lots of fat in my thighs, buttocks, breasts, face and hips in the first few months only! This just goes to show you that fat accumulation can happen fairly quickly! I also stopped smoking around that time.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

Satinjoy

I am going to just eat the balanced meals and keep the walking going before breakfast, not get too worried about it all, but based on this I want to make sure I get a good spectrum of foods in.  And will still calorie count.  If  I crave it I am going to eat it, unless its a new bra or something.

One thing I did not mention, I eat 6 -7  times a day at 300 calorie hits each, balanced carb to protiens, with 500-1000 at dinner depending maintaining on my final numbers.

Just got into the habit, and don't like either reflux or hunger or bloating.

Enjoy my friends.

Lots of water laced with cranberry or grape juice, low potassium there.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
  •