Need some help... have you had this discussion (SO opinions welcome as well)

[Jennygirl]

I think she will get there with more life experience. Things while black and white as a young person drift into more gray area's as we age. 

I can definitely feel that happening to myself as well It's actually a nice feeling.

Though I have been pretty tolerant and hopeful my entire life!

[Nero]

The difference is I don't have kids.  My transition only effects me.

I'm in the same situation. There were no kids, no spouse to deal with my transition. And it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of those who do have a spouse and kids going through transition.

But people give kids too little credit, especially younger ones. Everybody said divorce was terrible for kids. And sure, when my parents divorced, I was upset. I acted out, cried, etc. But that temporary pain I experienced was better than the alternative. My parents were not happy together. It really was better for all involved. And I think if my mother or father transitioned when I was a kid, I would be upset. There may be some embarrassment and confusion. And it'd be something to cope with. A child looks up to its father, so revelation that he is a woman could be troubling. But I love my father. And if he was struggling with this, I really wouldn't want him to suppress himself for me. Really.

And also - every adult child comes to realize that their parents are human. That they are human beings with their own issues and faults and deserve happiness. So, while I think there may be some pain and confusion and possibly embarrassment  in the beginning, most kids come to understand this soon enough. And see their parents as human beings who have the right to be happy. We're all just human after all.

[ChelseaAnn]

The difference is I don't have kids.  My transition only effects me.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Yes, you don't have kids, but you are in the same boat as the rest of us. Your transition does not affect "just you." It affects your friends, your parents, your coworkers, every person you meet on a semi-daily basis, the cashier at the coffee shop, the person at the mall who figures out you are not a cos girl, your future spouse / SO when you have to tell them your past... The list goes on. So no, do not act like you're better than us because you don't involve kids. One day you will. Whether it be your own, your SO's, your nieces or nephews, a friends child, the kids in your neighborhood, whatever. Just because they are not biologically yours doesn't make the effect different.

While I understand your feelings, they have gotten to the point of shoving them down our throats. Honestly, what makes transitioning with children different than divorcing with children, or having to tell a child a parent was killed? What about parents who spend money to go back to college, or those who move across the country when their children have friends they won't ever see again? You say kids are resilient to "normal events." In today's world, define what's normal. In the 1900s, it was normal to have 6 kids. But we're all ok having two, one, or no siblings.

[muffinpants]

Well, see, we did have an agreement... I honestly didn't want a second kid. The first is very stressful on me, and he's a good little guy in very good health. My wife and I almost split up when I told her that I didn't want a second one. She asked me if there was any way to have a second one.
I thought about it, and told her I would agree to having a second child if I could begin my therapy after she is so many months along. She did agree to that.

Yikes! What an awful situation... if your wife isn't pregnant yet, please think and perhaps put on the brakes before she is... it is not good at all to bargain a child for your wife in exchange for therapy! Just had to throw this in there after reading that statement.

But as for your whole situation, to me it seems like your wife is trying to find some sort of loophole so that you won't have to transition. Makes me think of when my gf wants to go somewhere and I really don't wanna go, I'm like 'yeahhhh... but actually we could do this and this over here and this would be more fun in the long run...yesssss?'.. kinda trying to feel her out and find a way out of it. Sorry she's not totally on board with transition... but try to make it clear to her that this is a NECESSITY. Not a want like house upgrades. If she wants you around hers and yalls childs life, transition is needed.

And I agree with other sentiments.. kids can deal with a lot more than adults realize or give them credit for. It's pretty awful to say that parents should live a lie- which leads to suicidal behavior, depression, etc.--- obviously worse for the child than transition. Kids like happy, healthy parents. That is what matters. And as a person who is also kid-less, I don't think I can understand the devotion parents feel towards their children- but I do know that it is there... I can't imagine any parent would think only of themselves when transitioning. Happiness and sanity matter more than presentation.

But truly, I would like to know what 'harm' comes to children who see a parent transition, Amy? Imo it is more harmful to tell children that because you are born with 'x' between your legs, you must be 'a', never 'b'! Better to show them that it's okay to be yourself, always, no matter what, just like mommy or daddy

Oooh ooh, and also- since people are saying transition effects everyone around them, I'd beg to differ. It only effects people who a). Don't understand or b). don't accept. I don't understand why changing appearance/presentation would have an effect on anyone other than the one who is changing? Perhaps I am ignorant, and if so- please inform me. I like learning.

[Nero]

Yeah, our culture has sort of turned into 'won't anyone please think of the children?!?' But shielding children from life doesn't do them any favors. When has it ever? I mean, trans people exist, gay people exist, etc. Trying to insulate them from people who are 'different' doesn't help. It's better that they understand people are different. Bigotry stems from ignorance.

[Felix]

I think we forget what a clear palette children start out with. Most kids have no idea that being trans is strange or bad if you don't act like it is strange or bad. They don't add all this baggage that the rest of us usually seem to carry with the topic.

[Carlota]

As someone who works with elementary school children, I will say kids are pretty resilient. They don't get enough credit. Child development isn't as cookie cutter as, "omg they will be scared for life". If you take the proper steps to educate a child about the transition, kids will develop understanding and not harmed. I heard similar things about gay/lesbian couples raising children, and look where we are now. Major life changes within a family work different among ages. You won't be talking to a 5 year old about changes within family dynamic in the same way you talk to a 12 year old. Heck, even an 8 year old. I suggest you to read up on some child psychology articles (i specialized more in adolescent development, so my concentration is on 10 - 19 year olds) to learn more about how, in reality, we adults tend to put fears within our own heads.

[Misato]

As there's nothing wrong with being trans, I don't see why kids would need to be "protected" from us or why anyone wouldn't transition with kids in the picture.  I mean, I would imagine the ability to be a good parent would be hampered because of the distraction of being a trans* person out of treatment and because of the guilt and discomfort they feel toward trans* people that this sentiment betrays.

So I would ask Amy: Why do you think being trans or cross dressing is, to use your word from earlier, disturbing? I also hope your find peace with yourself soon.

[h3llsb3lls]

I struggled with this idea that I need to protect my children from my dysphoria and wait till they were grown to transition BUT, after much research and consulting an LBGT friendly child psychologist, I decided that I would be doing my kids a disservice. They take their cues from us. If we teach them that being born with the wrong parts is somehow shameful,  they will grow up thinking that. If you show your children that it is truly okay to be yourself no matter what that means, they will grow up believing that. The decisions we make in our adult lives have a profound effect on our kids. As an unrelated example, my mother worked a job she hated my entire life. She absolutely hated her job and it affected her at home as well. I would have rather gone without than have a parent who was miserable. Your kids will know you aren't happy. They will know something is wrong. And as an adult child of parents who swept their needs aside till I was grown I can say, they will resent you for your unhappiness during their childhood.

[Amy1988]

I have kids and they are doing very well. So your transition does not affect your parents, grandparents, friends, work associates, etc?

Doesn't matter.  They are adults.

[Amy1988]

I know a couple who live in rural western Maryland, AKA the boonies. Pretty much an identical situation as ChelseaAnne. They had a 2 or 3 y/o and one on the way when the T-Bomb got dropped. 3 years later they are still together, the eldest is fine, the youngest was barely born when transition occured.

I too am.... concerned. At first I too was horrified hearing what was going on. Very young kids seem to be quite resiliant. Society didn't beat the life out of them yet. Older kids will likely have issues and is proven so all too often as testimony here on Susan's will attest to

Again one example but you really don't know what is going through their mind really.  I just believe that kids happiness and well being come before parents.  Why risk that when it can be easily avoided. 

[Amy1988]

Sorry, but you are wrong. Yes, you don't have kids, but you are in the same boat as the rest of us. Your transition does not affect "just you." It affects your friends, your parents, your coworkers, every person you meet on a semi-daily basis, the cashier at the coffee shop, the person at the mall who figures out you are not a cos girl, your future spouse / SO when you have to tell them your past... The list goes on. So no, do not act like you're better than us because you don't involve kids. One day you will. Whether it be your own, your SO's, your nieces or nephews, a friends child, the kids in your neighborhood, whatever. Just because they are not biologically yours doesn't make the effect different.

While I understand your feelings, they have gotten to the point of shoving them down our throats. Honestly, what makes transitioning with children different than divorcing with children, or having to tell a child a parent was killed? What about parents who spend money to go back to college, or those who move across the country when their children have friends they won't ever see again? You say kids are resilient to "normal events." In today's world, define what's normal. In the 1900s, it was normal to have 6 kids. But we're all ok having two, one, or no siblings.

All adults. Not the same thing.  Adults can deal with it.  Kids are a different situation.

[Jessica Merriman]

  Ok , we are not going here today. Transphobic and intolerant statements are only causing more hurt to the community. It will not be allowed. This topic had settled down and will not be allowed to inflame again today.

[ChelseaAnn]

Yeah, I agree. You just can't change some people's mindsets.

Can a mod lock this thread? It's long lost its original discussion.

[Jill F]

Yeah, I agree. You just can't change some people's mindsets.

Can a mod lock this thread? It's long lost its original discussion.

I'm so sorry this happened. 

Bug hugs and all the support in the world,
Jill

[h3llsb3lls]

Yeah, I agree. You just can't change some people's mindsets.

Can a mod lock this thread? It's long lost its original discussion.

I'm sorry. You should be able to ask questions without it getting out of hand. Best wishes.

[Jessica Merriman]

Per OP request topic is locked. Thank you for your patience ChelseaAnn!