Re: How Many Transitioned Women Here Think Men Are "Weird" Now?

[Northern Jane]

My only comment is to wonder what "now" and "tansitioned" have to do with anything? 

I couldn't figure out men when I was supposed to BE one and I still can't figure them out 32 years post-op.

I guess that's what makes them such amusing pets 

[Dennis]

I have to confess a certain obliviousness to details. Always had it, it may be worse with T.

Dennis

[Sophie]

I notice when people change their hair, mainly because I tend to recognise people by hair... though when it comes to clothes I don't really notice... I only remember the colours.

[Terri-Gene]

Do I think men are "weird now"?

Actually no more so than 50 years ago.  I never thought of them as "weird", but I always did see them ad different in many ways.  The rough houseing, The sexual jokes, the pure raw "earthiness" of them.

Actually, in adult life after learning to appear, act etc. like them I began to understand them all to perfectly and interact with them in a normal way.  I became a part of the dominant/submissive types of "games" they play with each other and even got very good at leadership roles among them, basically by becoming better at thier games then most of them were, but in the process I lost a lot.  I became highly intolerant and insensitive, unemotional, quick to make decisions without sufficient information, and put more value on gain then on my own life.

Today I look at my experience in the male environment to be a double edged sword as it taought me to cope with the impossible and gave me extrodinary confidence in myself, but surpressed me me emotionally and made me insisitive to the feelings of others.  It has taken me years to reverse that surpression and the more sucessful I am at it, the more I seem to have problems with myself and my life for decades.  I did to many things that are no longer what I would otherwise done and I find a lot of it hard to live with now, but I am slowly winning this battle with myself.

So yes, I do consider men "Wierd" these days, but having lived being a man as a lifestyle I understand them, I simply can no longer condone some of the attitudes they have devoloped out of the necessities (or perceived necessities) of the male environment.

Terri

[Leigh]

Those that are young have no idea how lucky they are.

If you ever can find one,  look up the diagnosis for transvestism/crossdressing/transexualism in a 60' 70's medical book.

Stuff that into the head of a youngster from the back of nowhere Idaho and see what kind of psychological probelms develop--its not a pretty sight!

Leigh

[Dennis]

I don't feel the need to compete on a masculine level. I think some of the behaviours described as masculine here may be gender identity disorder and trying to live male.

I dunno, I just figure, I'm short, I look young, I'm blond-ish and fairly hairless, I'm just not going to compete on the monkey scale. But I'm still secure in being male.

I guess it helps being a professional though, I do get some boy-bonus points for that, and I probably get forgiven for my less than rough and ready presentation.

Dennis

[Dennis]

And it's hellish trying to function as a woman when you don't feel like one.

Dennis

[Jillieann Rose]

Yes I think the most men a weird.
I'm always pleased when someone comments positively on my apparel and my appearance.
Sometimes I still don't notice peoples clothing, but I can tell what kind of a mood they are in. And when they are hurting I hurt for them and want to help.

Don't like to cutting anyone down but sometimes these men creatures need it. (I call it tuff love and it can be fun.)  >
Even when I was trying to fit into a male role I never wanted to be insensitive or "macho".
I always though it was silly and often hurtful to others. The lack of caring for the feelings of others, especially their loved ones, makes me sick. When a game (sports) or going out with the boys is more important to them than there family than I think they must be brain damaged.
Maybe that's why I never liked most sports and I know that's why I've never had many good friends who were male.   

I do believe there are some "gentle" men who caring and sensitive. These men seem to have it together and know what is important. And I know there are some gentle men here like the two Dennis's.
And there are a few women who are insensitive and hurtful. I have personally known a few of them too and wonder if they are not transgender's in denial.

And I'm just a CD plus... Just trying to be me.

Yes to say most men are weird is an understatement. And I know cause I "was" trying to be one.

Jillieann

[Terri-Gene]

I never understood such as acting "macho

Oh, I understand it all right. It's a game where even if you lose you make it hardly worthwile to the winner, just to make the point.

As a youth, I was punished for losing at just about anything, It got to where I'd go to any extream to win with no regard for personal safety, and that alone desensitised me to a lot of things and affected career choices that I never should have made which desensitised me even more.  I had feelings of course, but could never allow them to show or affect my judgement when at times I would have had better judgement if I had listened to those feelings.

No, being dysphoric wasn't the easiest thing in the world when you live in work in violent atmospheres.  To do over again, I would have stuck to it in my early 20's rather then run from it, no matter what happened to me.  No, the young these days have no idea how easy it is these days as compaired to the 60's and 70's whan a lot of good people payed the dues and even died to make the gains we live under now.

Terri

[LostInTime]

I always thought that they were weird.  However, I am just now realising how thick headed they can be.

[Peggiann]

Being a mother of 3 boys who grew into being men, I see so many of the comments on situations here sometimes come to the surface.

The things coaches told them in sports would litterally drive me bonkers. Leah and I would say think for yourself and ask if you could see Jesus sitting here with you doing and saying those things, then have at it otherwise step back when called upon to participate.

Peggiann

[ginaroxx79]

 I don't consider men weird, in fact I consider them fascinating (though amazingly simple) individuals. Even though I never considered myself a man or even bothered to try and fit in as one I don't have the "man-hatred" or "man-bashing" attitudes that I have noticed are quite prevalent in some of the TS community. Maybe it's a matter of experiences and situations that I have or haven't had, being on the younger end of the spectrum and growing up in and around SF.
I have always been extremely attracted to men both sexually and socially. A lot of my deeper friendships are still with men, although they do seem a little more insensitive or oblivious to the feelings and needs of others. I contribute this mainly to the fact that they are pressured to be more shut off from their own emotions. However, when praise or compliments are given by a man they seem more genuine to me than those given by women.
Women are more concerned about hurting another person's feelings and so, in my experience, they tend to candy-coat responses to other people more than men.
One thing I have noticed about men that I do find rather amusing is that as long as you let them FEEL as though they are in control they are very easily led. Stroke their ego a little, make them feel smart and attractive, and there is no length they won't go to for your attention...whether or not they want something

[Northern Jane]

I consider them fascinating (though amazingly simple)

ROFLMAO

Can't type - tears of laughter!

[Leigh]

They don't even make good pets.

You have ta feed em.
                  clean up after em
                  try to train em
                  give up trying to train em
                  put the seat down and flush after em
                  try to ignore their whining when they are sick
                 
difference between men and puppies?  Puppies grow up and quit whining!

                  They have outdoor plumbing
                  They smell funny
                  They are hairy--everywhere or so I am told


                 
                 
               
                 
                 

           

[Dennis]

They don't even make good pets.

You have ta feed em.
                  clean up after em
                  try to train em
                  give up trying to train em
                  put the seat down and flush after em
                  try to ignore their whining when they are sick
                 
difference between men and puppies?  Puppies grow up and quit whining!

                  They have outdoor plumbing
                  They smell funny
                  They are hairy--everywhere or so I am told

Yeah, but some of us are cute

And I don't even pee on the floor.

Dennis

                 
                 
               
                 
                 

           

[Teri Anne]

As a preop and as a post op (1999) TS, I have always thought about gender differences.  My biggest realization upon transitioning was that there really wasn't a huge difference between the genders and that, contrary to what a lot of docs and much of society thinks, most of the supposid differences were in the "nurture" rather than "nature"" column.  I see that much of what people assume about me as a female echoes what their general stereotype of women is. I do wonder why men don't object to being referred to as being shallow unemotional uncompassionate beings.  We often say men are weird but ignore the fact that many men LIKE playing their neanderthal roles.  I admit it....that IS weird.  I don't understand men who will watch football game after football game on TV on weekends while, at the same time, know their wives aren't interested in football. This is a person who loves you...why not do something mutually enjoyable?  Anyway, if we're  to pick on men as being weird, there are probably just as many nonsensical things women do...things like worry about their appearance or get upset about trivialities.  I sometimes look at women who act overtly silly or baby-ish as being just as weird as men.  When I was transitioning, I found myself acting out these stereotypes but have since grown wiser.  Why must both genders adhere to their stereotypical  roles so firmly?  I realize that there is comfort there and it is, after all, what society expects....but wouldn't everyone, as I do, enjoy the freedom to ACT however you want?  The best thing about being a post op TS, in my opinion, is that women are afforded far more choices in how to act...You can be sensitive, silly, emotional, creative AND smart.  Having the freedom to be that way is definitely not weird....it's wonderful.

[DawnL]

The best thing about being a post op TS, in my opinion, is that women are afforded far more choices in how to act...You can be sensitive, silly, emotional, creative AND smart.  Having the freedom to be that way is definitely not weird....it's wonderful.

Nicely stated, I feel the same way.  If anything, how can men stand to be so limited?  An analogy can be found in my closet: in the male years, I wore nothing but blue (seriously) which I think was an unconscious extention of my dysphoria (if I'm wearing blue, I must be male), but now, my closet is an absolute riot of color.  Kinda sums up the whole thing.

Dawn

[ILoveTSWomen]

Gina,

"Even though I never considered myself a man or even bothered to try and fit in as one I don't have the "man-hatred" or "man-bashing" attitudes that I have noticed are quite prevalent in some of the TS community."

Yeah, ain't sterotypes grand.. quite useful things.

Course, your last paragraph is pretty much dead on target as well.

DennisInGA

[ginaroxx79]

Yes Dennis, sterotypes can be quite useful though very limiting things. Men are supposed to be strong, in control, good providers, and for the most part more emotionally cold. However, women are supposed to be pretty, less domineering, nurturing, more self-denying, physically weaker, more in tune with emotions(both theirs' and others').

Anyone disagree? Show me a man who wouldn't be ashamed of being a stay at home dad, have his wife bring home the money, or cry at a movie. Show me this man and I will show you a man who is thought of as "less than" by at least most of his peers.

On the other hand, show me a woman who cares nothing for her appearance or the feelings of others, puts a career above a family, thinks of herself above all others, or lifts weights. This woman is often seen as a "bitch" or a "butch".

Both of these people will probably have their sexuality questioned by those who don't know them well.

We live in confusing society that tells us that we can do or be anything we want...as long it's what everyone else wants or expects of us.

[Teri Anne]

Gina, you wrote, "We live in confusing society that tells us that we can do or be anything we want...as long it's what everyone else wants or expects of us."  Well put.  It's almost like we live in a Twilight Zone wherein all the characters give mixed messages like, "be happy, do whatever you want," and then say, "Why are you doing that?"  We see it in all circles of society but, especially, the conservative religious "right" who want to reduce government's size but want it, also, to control the actions of minorities.  I wonder how much longer, if twisted thought continues, that we'll end up with fire departments burning books.  Or maybe, despite conservatives' desires, it's as they themselves say, "give people freedom and they'll never want to give it up."  Maybe, in time, men will discover that they, too, need to be liberated.