can dysphoria change?

[asiangurliee]

I think Nero made a good point.

If a transsexual woman said she is keeping her penis and she enjoys the pleasure it gives her, I can't imagine the names people would use to call her and the labels that will be put on her.

I know the bottom surgery for trans guy is less satisfactory, but I think the end point is that one can enjoy their genital and/or live with it  even if it doesn't match with their mind or the rest of their body without being judged that they are not really female or male.

[Rachael]

Nero has a mangina *giggles*



edit: Gina, im 20, not 13, but cheers!

R

[Nero]

i think your a bit ott here gina.
Nero feels hes male, so many topics have decided on here,t hat a man is a man, and woman a woman regardless of thier genetal area. If he feels he can live with that part of himself, good for him. afterall, its his transition, not yours, and his being primary is his age of transition and realisation or whatever the damn fireball of a topic decided. The point is, dysphoria is multi leveled. and if hes happy, surely thats all that sodding matters?

R

I think Nero made a good point.

If a transsexual woman said she is keeping her penis and she enjoys the pleasure it gives her, I can't imagine the names people would use to call her and the labels that will be put on her.

I know the bottom surgery for trans guy is less satisfactory, but I think the end point is that one can enjoy their genital and/or live with it  even if it doesn't match with their mind or the rest of their body without being judged that they are not really female or male.

I agree with you girls. Why do some people see a problem with one's acceptance of what they have? It's not like we chose what parts we got.
What about a woman who for medical reasons could not have SRS, so instead of crying about it for the rest of her life decided to embrace the parts she did have? There are TS in that situation ya know. Should they just cry about it every day?
In my situation I embraced what I had at a young age, because I knew I could never do anything about it.
Of course I wished I had been born male with a penis and the ability to sire children and all of that, but that's a fairytale. The reality is I was born with a p ussy. Should I have just lied down and died? Cried about it every day?
Refused to have sex?

[Rachael]

whats more important, sireing a child, or being its father?
ill MIGHT be able to have kids, but its unlikely. but ill still be a mother someday. thats a fact.

[Nero]

Of course I wished I had been born male with a penis and the ability to sire children and all of that, but that's a fairytale. The reality is I was born with a p ussy. Should I have just lied down and died? Cried about it every day?
Refused to have sex?

Your regret is not a fiction nor a fairytale. Your regret is as real as any man's penis. No one needs to be ashamed of or justify their regrets nor view them as a sign of weakness... quite the opposite. Nero, I've realized that one thing that bugged me about your earlier posts is that, rather than saying "I have regrets, deep painful sadness about what I can't change in my body, but I'm going to make the best of it." You chose to, instead, to put the armor up and ridicule other's choices in that direction. I find you a more compelling man when you admit your regrets and be honest about your feelings as you did one or two posts ago rather than barking at the world in defense of your manhood. Yeah, the barking is something a lot of guys do and it's something I find really unattractive.

Well, like I said earlier, it just was never a genitals thing with me. I just never disliked my p ussy. The only thing I was upset about was that having it instead of a penis meant I wasn't a boy. When I was a toddler I had this thing about compulsively 'messing with it' because it felt good (I guess you could call it innocent pre masturbation), to the horror of my folks. So I just never bore it any ill will.

My deep sorrow and regret was because I wanted the whole package and that included the penis, the ability to impregnate a wife and have my own offspring. So it just never was about the genitals for me. I don't know why. It was just about being a man and everything that entails.

I do deeply regret and have much sorrow about the fact that I'll always be a woman to society because of the genital thing. That does hurt very much and likely will always hurt.

I also regret that I will never be able to fill a woman with my own flesh.

But those two things pretty much sum it up.
I regret not having a penis for what it means, represents, and would like to use it on a partner. That's as far as it goes.
It's just not the severe chronic pain and disgust my tits cause me. I mean I want to puke when I'm changing or showering.  And the vagina (ugh, I hate that word), I apparently liked at a young age, so why? I don't know.

There is another big thing about me that colors my feelings on physical alterations in general.
I don't like anything on me that's not mine, that's artificial. Removing my tits is one thing, but having something fake on me I'd be uncomfortable with. This is why I would never wear a packer in my pants. I mean that's fine for guys who like to do that, but I just would feel silly cause it's not really there, I'd feel like I was misrepresenting myself because I don't have a bulge down there and I just really don't see the point of packing.

And yes, I did wrestle with the hormone choice. I'm not at all excited at the thought of sprouting hair everywhere, and I was initially very worried and obsessing over the fat distribution. Ftms kept saying their gut expanded in size and pretty much all my weight goes there and I have a big gut now which is very noticeable (I wasn't always fat, I was fit a few years back), so I was having visions of it doubling in size and stuff. And I was panicking and annoying everybody with endless T threads which they kept trying to answer (I'm sure Dennis remembers this )

In the end, I knew I had to take T to pass, and I would be on it right now and scheduling surgery if not for unresolved medical issues (I've been seriously ill since December). Anyone who thinks I'm making excuses not to make physical alterations knows where to go. And no, it's not the reason for my views on HRT. I've had those views since way before I got sick.
When people rub the fact that I'm not on hormones yet and they are (such as you, MEW/Melissa, and another poster I smited) that's rubbing salt into a very sore spot. I want to get on with my life, I can't help that I can't.

Now you and that other poster were not aware of my situation, but MEW/Melissa knows full well about my illness. Going over and over the fact that she's on HRT and I am not at least 5 separate posts was hitting below the belt and just plain mean.

[asiangurliee]

whats more important, sireing a child, or being its father?
ill MIGHT be able to have kids, but its unlikely. but ill still be a mother someday. thats a fact.

i dont think i can ever have my own biological kids, its genetically impossible.

[Thundra]

Not being judgmental, but why? Practical issues aside (money, medical complexity), why don't you have an issue with your genitals? If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times).

Ah yes, the fundamental difference betwixt m2f's and f2m's. The former have the expectation of a positive outcome regarding the crotch, while the latter brook no such ambitions, and so do not suffer from a lack of expectations in most cases. Which is why I think a lot of body dysphoria is related to the medical fields pioneering work over the last 50 years. My guess is that someday, if the medico's do find a way to create male genitalia [i.e. neo-penis], that the expectations will run just as high for the f2m's and their body dysphoria will skyrocket too.

In the old days, people lived with what they were born with, except for the rare few that got mangled early on, mostly m2f's. The modern advent of SRS has changed all that forever. But what would this generation have doen if that option was not there? Most would learn to live with it, and fewer would transition. The new surgical outcome is creating "a problem" much greater than in the past, because of raised expectations. I would also hazard to guess, that less people would feel suicidal or try to commit suicide if the modern treatments were not available. Why? Because they wouldn't know any other option was available. The possibility of not being able to have something that is now available actually creates more angst than previously. That is my guess.

[Rachael]

if i could afford it, id get an orchi asap, but for the fact its likely more expensive thangetting AAs till grs...

[asiangurliee]

I won't get an orchi if I am planning on having a SRS.

I am not planning on having any surgery anytime soon. I am in my phase of exploring and living as a female. I wouldn't have surgery unless everything else looks female enough and I really hate my genitals. 

[Rachael]

im becoming less of a fan, thing is, like i said earlier, as i feminise, that bit sticks out more, and the more i become whole, the more it becomes a problem

[gothique11]

Rachel, I can totally relate to you (as I see many other people can). I didn't realize how disjointed I'd feel with boy bits stuck to a girl body. I've been having a very hard time with it recently. It is stressful to have it there.

[Rachael]

but how long would £500 worth of spiro last? 2 years? longer? less?

[Rachael]

20 months on my current price for spiro, so possibly worth it if you werent gettting grs faster than that.
but off topic slightly

R

[Keira]

Well, it depends where you buy the spiro, at my price, I've got the usual TS spiro dose of XXX, 500 pounds would last 70 * 25 days!! = 1750 days, about 5 years.

Dysphoria changes, you treat the most critical social dysphoria first, and then wow, you feel so good for awhile, till you feel so good with yourself that you feel like having a relationship with someone and then that thing sticks out at you like a sore tumb  and again you have something preventing from moving forward and the dysphoria increases again.

[Rachael]

if you accidentlly tell me where that is, (unless its prescription ) i wont say anything


R

[Christo]

a dude is a dude w/hormons w/o hormons w/a dick w/o dick   get it? got it? good.   

[Nero]

I have never rubbed in the fact you're not on hormones. Never. I do have an issue with you going on about the joy and wonder of being 'primary' when you're not on hormones and, at first, didn't sound too disphoric about having a vagina, but I've never ragged anyone about not being able to be on hormones.

Why? What does primary have to do with it? It says 'A primary will be seeking HRT and/or presenting as their target gender by the age of 25'.
Being on HRT isn't a requirement for being primary.
Ok Fine. For a decade, I was living the life of a man with a severe heroin addiction (most people here already know this, so I don't care who else knows), who drank and snorted coke. To be honest, with everything going on the last thing from my mind was the fact I didn't pass. I just didn't worry about it, nobody made an issue I was technically female or whatever. You're living so fast, you just really don't have time to care about passing, especially if nobody you associate with sees you as a woman anyway. The only thing that matters in life is hustling, hustling, hustling.
I couldn't have gone on T anyway back then.
I got clean, and now I'm sick. I don't care who thinks I'm making some kind of excuse or whatever, there's enough people here who know what's going on with my condition.

Like I said, I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT. I mean does non-passable equal Secondary? That's absurd. Would a 20 year old mtf who can't pass, looks like a linebacker in a dress, but is taking estrogen be more valid than me?

Posted on: July 29, 2007, 07:22:59 PM

Yes, it's mean. But, guess what, your endless primary/secondary thread was just as mean for many people on this forum. Whether it was intended that way I have no idea, but labeling people 'secondary' (which is ALWAYS a negative term in the trans world and, certainly within the therapeutic community, didn't make you beloved. I know I was hurt by it. Live by the sword, die by the sword... that's the cliche.

I very much appreciated your more emotionally honest answer. You sounded more like a man and less like a wounded little boy.

ciao,
Gina M.

I'm sorry that you felt hurt by something I must've said. I never labeled anyone anything, until I did have one person specifically order my diagnosis. So may I ask why you felt hurt by my posts on the thread and what was said that upset you?

[Christo]

I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT

the comunity dont know d#ck bout you.  they dont know what u feel.   dont let'em tell u what u gotta do w/ur life.  they aint you.  you aint them.

[Shana A]

Like I said, I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT. I mean does non-passable equal Secondary?

Now, everyone knows that non-passable is considerably lower on the food chain than secondary TS  > 

zythyra

[Wendy]

If you've ever read about what constitutes 'secondary', and discussions of this overgeneralization, there is a persistent undercurrent that these people are not passable, will never really be accepted as women (or men), are behaviorally incapable of ever assimilating to their 'psychological gender' and often look out and out foolish trying to pretend they're women (or men). For many, many writers on this subject, primary = passable, while secondary = never passable. One can try and smooth it out, but that's one of the 'primary' assumptions of this entire theory and how clinicians should deal with them.

My interpretation of the above paragraph is that if a person will never be passable and is very self-conscious then their perception to "never fit into society" is very real.
...........................

I have found dysphoria against a particular part of my body has increased.  I am not sure what I will do to remedy.