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Misgendering on the phone

Started by Mr.X, June 09, 2014, 02:01:14 PM

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FTMDiaries

I've listened to your recording a couple of times, and you're absolutely right in the assessment you make in the video. But I think you have everything you need to stop people from misgendering you: I think all you need to do is to get rid of some old habits.

From what I could hear, it sounds like you're more likely to get misgendered if you're excitable and speaking quickly... because when you're nervous or excitable you speak in your throat rather than your chest, so the higher-pitched elements of your voice tend to dominate. If you slow down, relax and concentrate on producing the resonance you get when you speak with your chest rather than your throat, your voice passes perfectly. In fact, it does this at several points in the video, once you've overcome the nerves (e.g. from about 40 seconds in). So I'd recommend slowing down your speech and trying to sound... how can I put this?... perhaps a little more bored when you're speaking.

Listen to the end of the video, the bit where you say you'd be very grateful etc. That's a 100% pass for me, and you reached it when you were calm, relaxed and speaking more slowly. So clearly, you do have a voice that can pass. Obviously you were more nervous and excitable at the beginning at the video, and it is this that caused me to misgender your voice (even though I knew better).

Would it help if you put up a recording in Dutch too, so that we can assess whether there's a difference? I've always found it makes me speak more slowly and deeply because of the structure of the language.





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Adam (birkin)

Hm, honestly I am kind of baffled. To me, there is an unmistakeable male resonance in your voice and I would not gender it female. But, ftmdiaries may be right in his assessment of the speed of your speech. For some reason I thought you were English (like from England) when I heard your accent, so I wrote the speed and hesitation off as you just being a nervous Brit lol.

Even at that though...gendering your voice female seems like a stretch. I would try ftmdiaries suggestion because it is the only thing that makes sense.
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Ephemeral

Mr X, someone uploaded a link with how the pronunciation of S makes a difference in how you are perceived as male or female and you definitely speak with a high-frequency S that is seen as female. I would try to practice pronouncing S further back in your mouth as a starter.

It's not your pitch but speech pattern.
Come watch with me as our world burns.
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randomdude5

Unfortunately, I can see why you are getting misgendered on the phone, as I might also misgender you if I were just to hear you speak. At certain points in the video you sound more male than others, as FTMDiaries said.

I think you need to speak more from your chest and less from your "head". To me, that seems to be it.
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Mr.X

I'm really bummed out that over a year on T, my voice still sounds female. It really makes me depressed and I wish to change it. Most transmen seem to be getting really good voices, but once again, just like with my height, I got the short end of the stick.

Thanks for all the suggestions though. Seems like I'll have to put some work into this. I keep hearing this 'speak from your chest' thing, but I have no idea how to do that. When I google it, it just says that you have to do it, but no one explains how. Are there any pointers how I can find my chest voice? And how can I keep on speaking with it? I also can't seem to find the S pitch post. Are there any good sites that explain all this, with exercises and everything?
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awilliams1701

Even cis gendered people get mid gendered on the phone. A voice by itself doesn't tell you a whole lot.
Ashley
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Ephemeral

Quote from: Mr.X on July 02, 2014, 11:30:08 AM
I'm really bummed out that over a year on T, my voice still sounds female. It really makes me depressed and I wish to change it. Most transmen seem to be getting really good voices, but once again, just like with my height, I got the short end of the stick.

Thanks for all the suggestions though. Seems like I'll have to put some work into this. I keep hearing this 'speak from your chest' thing, but I have no idea how to do that. When I google it, it just says that you have to do it, but no one explains how. Are there any pointers how I can find my chest voice? And how can I keep on speaking with it? I also can't seem to find the S pitch post. Are there any good sites that explain all this, with exercises and everything?

I'd say your resonance is fine and the S thing is written in this thread on the first page some posts down.
Come watch with me as our world burns.
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Mr.X

Doh! Thanks! I'm such an idiot for thinking it was in another thread and checking them all, while it was written in this one. I'm too durpy at times.
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Bastian

2 years of T for me and i'm in the exact same boat. Last night I was at a Canada Day party and was speaking to some people who I didn't know  so I tried playing around with focusing on speaking calmly and making an effort to 'speak from my chest' I don't know if it worked at all, since I was standing in front of them so they correctly called me "this guy" and "him". I dunno. Shame we can't have a surgery or something to lower our voices... i'd pay for that in a heartbeat. It's probably my #1 give away.

As for the whole 'speak from your chest thing' I think what everyone's talking about is the difference between talking like your speaking from the back of your throat vs from 'deep inside'. The first is high pitched and resonates from high in your throat, the later is deeper, calmed and resonates lower.

Just start talking to yourself and try to feel where your voice is, does it feel like you are speaking "way high up" in your throat, or lower down? Then try just lowering your voice a bit.  Its sort of hard to explain. I find that when i'm talking in my throat it feels like the airs almost pushing out my nose as I speak. It's really 'up in my head' but if I relax and speak low and slower it feels like my nose is kind of closed and all the air is being expelled as I speak... I don't know if that helps at all.

I saw this trick once on a blog about how to be a guy thats aimed at guys and it was talking about finding your natural pitch. What it said to do is start humming "mmmmmm" to yourself, keep the tone even. Now start to adjust the pitch. When you feel the vibrations of the 'mmm' in your lips that's when you've reached your natural pitch, which is probably, most likely, the pitch you hit when you are relaxed and speaking calmly, which as others have suggested is when you sound male.

I really hope that helps, I understand your frustration all too well. I have barely any facial hair and a high pitched voice, those were my short ends of the stick :/
Started T in July 2012
Had Top Surgery on May 23rd, 2013

Where the wild things are...
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Felix

I don't understand how any variance could make your voice sound female, based on what I hear in your recording. Maybe there is some kind of cultural thing or subtle cues I'm not aware of that throw people off.

Your comment about elderly people made it make a little more sense, but it's still a stretch. I think if people heard you on the phone where I live they would assume you to be male.
everybody's house is haunted
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TrojanMan

I got ma'amed today while ordering pizza... :(

Daydreamer

I'm not on the T train yet, so I get misgendered all the time...despite being told by some people I sound like a little gay boy if anything. It's annoying and I don't have the guts to correct the person on the other end.  :(
"Stay tuned next for the sound of your own thoughts, broadcast live on the radio for all to hear." -- Cecil (Welcome to Night Vale)

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aleon515

I think my hoarseness makes me sound like a woman with a really bad smoking problem (sometimes-- though not always). Frustrating! I do things like identify myself as male-- I'm ______ using my first name which is clearly male or I'm Mr. _________, but even that doesn't always work. I've found if someone wants to sell you something they are more motivated to gender you correctly vs if *you* want something. LOL

--Jay
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Ephemeral

Quote from: aleon515 on July 09, 2014, 02:07:36 PM
I think my hoarseness makes me sound like a woman with a really bad smoking problem (sometimes-- though not always). Frustrating! I do things like identify myself as male-- I'm ______ using my first name which is clearly male or I'm Mr. _________, but even that doesn't always work. I've found if someone wants to sell you something they are more motivated to gender you correctly vs if *you* want something. LOL

--Jay

Having experience from sales, I can tell you that the reason why that is, is because when you work as a seller you need to pay careful attention to your customer in order to size them up properly. One way of successfully pissing someone off would be to misgender them of course.
Come watch with me as our world burns.
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bethanyjadefowell

Although I am MTF and my voice is still male, I had a phone call last month. The guy asks "can I take your full name" and I said "yes, its Miss Bethany Fowell". Then the guy starts calling me sir!!

It is like when people see me where I work, I am dressed totally female and get things like "that's a good lad" or "Go and asked that man there". At times, even before I talk!!
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aleon515

Quote from: Ephemeral on July 09, 2014, 02:28:07 PM
Having experience from sales, I can tell you that the reason why that is, is because when you work as a seller you need to pay careful attention to your customer in order to size them up properly. One way of successfully pissing someone off would be to misgender them of course.

True! If it was all sales, I might actually hang up if I got misgendered multiple times. If I need something done, I'm going to stick around longer. One exception I've had is something like Direct Tv, where they seem to try very hard-- I suppose always looking for me upgrading my package (I'd like to upgrade my package, just not THAT package.:)  )


--Jay
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