nonbinary trans, hormones, emotions, and the forum

[Satinjoy]

Greetings dear ones

I am  getting the sense that the ramp up of my estrogen levels has done more than restart my breast development.  My physical dysphoria is fairly accute - by my standards at least - and I am intolerant of testosterone, although my dysphoria will distort my perception of that, but it appears my emotions have been hugely affected and that has taken me by surprise.

So, personally, over the last 12 weeks my levels went from a range of 200/35 on estrodial tabs to ??/280 on injections.  The high end could be anything, feels strong though.  That is a big change.

We couldnt get my serums stable before.   I went menopausal every morning on max dose oral, twice a day, on waking up and midmorning crash.

Slightly irrelevant.  But what is relevant now, is that there is an unexpected aspect to transitioning that is in play, one that I had not planned on.  I seem to have female emotional characteristics that I am not familiar with, nor do I fully understand how to control this.

From and early age I was taught not to feel, more accurately never to cry.  I used to cry at the drop of a hat.  I felt deeply as a child, was extremely sensitive, then had that sensitivity extremely abused by the ass----les in school.  One thing after another.

I used to be known as ------ the fairy.  The name always accompanied by a slur.  Now it becomes my creature ID...

Bottom line- I can't keep a lid on the emotions now.  I feel everything.  The good, the bad and the ugly if you will.  Love, passion, tears, joy, serentiy.... and then heavy anxiety, fear, depression and need to escape and rest the mind.  Sometimes these moods swing and have no trigger, not dramatically, but there is greif for no reason and then anxiety, and then it passes.

In the last few months I have embarrassed myself several times on this board with emotionally driven statements, and I fear I will alienate my closest friends here on the board, as well as begin to look like a horses ass.  I have to ask you, and me probably, to cut me some slack.  I take responsibility for my actions and words and feelings, never blame anything else for it, but I suspect that there MAY be some connection to that 800% increase in serums on the low end of the hormone levels.

My question for the wisdom of the board is - have you experienced any of this yourself- have hormones changed your interpersonal relations as well as the body, did you find yourself having to relearn feeling?  Did it affect the board shares?  Did it enrich them?

Thoughts please.  By the way, the choice to go to high estrogen is one I will not reverse.  I cannot live without it, really, or should say that I would not want to, not ever go back to how I used to feel, never that.

I promise you I will get my emotions back under control, or at least channel them.

Thoughts please, men women and unique souls of the board?

Thanks and blessings

SJ

[ErinWDK]

Satinjoy,

You have called out to the unique - so here is Erin, the very personification of unique!

Like you, testosterone can really wreak havoc with my emotions - and it was the ugly negative end of that which drove me into therapy.  I really felt as though I was becoming much more than the north end of a southbound horse, and feared I would potentially do real harm to myself or someone else.  The day I went cold turkey off the testosterone gel I turned really mellow.  On my way home from visiting a friend I came across a driver that would go really SLOW in the no passing zones (all two lane highway) and go like mad in the passing zones.  I waited for a good upgrade, and finally came to a really steep one with a passing zone.  This was secure in the knowledge that no rice-burner stood a chance against a turbocharged diesel going from 30 to 70 MPH on a steep upgrade.  I passed the jerk with no trouble there.  There were about 20 other cars piled up behind them at that point.  The 25 miles from there to the Interstate nothing came up behind me despite me reverting back to the speed limit once I was good and clear.  I was calm and serene without the excess Testosterone load.  Had I been on the T at that point I shudder to think what might have happened - it could have gotten REALLY ugly.

I am not as sure about Estrogen.  My serum levels of Estradiol have varied from well over 100 to as low as 33.  I did generally feel better with the higher level.  It does take a good bit of time to get used to a different level, and emotions can go all over the place.  Think of cis-women and their emotions as hormone levels vary through the cycle.  Welcome to a new world.

Don't worry about offending anyone here.  This is a support site, a place where you can let it all out and have a good cry and nobody will think any the less of you.  Really, you are family here.

Now, I also consider myself to be non-binary and that is another level to work through.  I have a strong feminine side and a masculine side that has been through the mill.  Even with all of that I am a bit of a motor head.  The other day I was dressed in boy mode with no makeup, wig, or inserts, and a shirt where the top button wanted to stay unbuttoned.  For the first time I thought I looked (somewhat) feminine.  That sort of felt comforting.  In a bit over a week I will see my doctor and see if I can get more hormones.  Non-binary or whatever, that seems the only rational way to go.

Being trans* is hard.  Being non-binary is hard.  This is the road we are on.  Hopefully you can find the aid to have a good journey.  Hang in there!

Unique enough?

Hugs!!!


Erin

[luna nyan]

On pellet, at the 3 month peak my E level was sitting on 490, T on 0.6.
I have to admit to myself that that is transition dosage - at least the levels should start dropping back down now.

I can cry now.  I had an argument with the SO and we both ended up in tears.  That has never happened to me.  Ever.  I do like being reconnected to that side of myself, but I have to watch that I don't turn into a snappy b!tch.

Erin,

I can totally relate to getting frustrated with that sort of driver.  It pays to have a quicker car for that sort of situation.

[helen2010]

My question for the wisdom of the board is - have you experienced any of this yourself- have hormones changed your interpersonal relations as well as the body, did you find yourself having to relearn feeling?  Did it affect the board shares?  Did it enrich them?

Thoughts please.  By the way, the choice to go to high estrogen is one I will not reverse.  I cannot live without it, really, or should say that I would not want to, not ever go back to how I used to feel, never that.

I promise you I will get my emotions back under control, or at least channel them.

Thoughts please, men women and unique souls of the board.

SJ

Hormone levels have definitely impacted and continue to impact interpersonal feelings, board shares etc

Pre low dose hrt, I had twice been treated with androgel and T injections to address a low T level.  This was not a good move.  My dysphoria which was already increasing with age, went off the scale.

Fortunately I rushed to a gender therapist, was diagnosed trans* and started hrt with the expectation of a binary transition .... However along the way I realised and accepted that I was non binary and my desired state was one where my dysphoria was banished, my emotions richer and more andro physically.  This has meant that the endo has worked with me to find that point of gender balance, that equilibrium where I have access to F and M gendered (albeit falsely) attributes.

This journey has taken me to transition levels hrt, back to std low dose (entry level hrt), no hrt, varying levels of AA with no E and varying Levels of E with no AA.  I have plotted my emotions, impact on relationships, SO and family feedback, clarity of thought etc.  those who I have come out to give me feedback and always know when dosages have been varied.  I have found my point of balance or equilibrium.  I feel blessed.

The presentation aspects of NB for me have meant a more andro 'look and feel' which included FAS ( less aggressive FFS ), beard and other hair removal, longer hair, improved grooming and more nuanced and neutral clothing and accessories etc.  This is the most challenging aspect of my journey but I am comfortable with my progress. 

Strangely while E is somewhat seductive and addictive, I am not interested in a binary transition when my desired state is NB.  It seems inauthentic not to find the point of presentation balance available to me as MTNB.  While I sense that it may be easier and more acceptable for a F bodied NB but am attracted to the challenge of achieving equilibrium as a MTNB.

Re Board shares - as I have progressed I have become far more empathetic with, and fiercely protective of, fellow NB's; perhaps a little evangelical re the NB option; and critical of binarist presumption and thinking from cis and trans binarists.  I also react negatively to ill informed and outdated opinion which seeks to invalidate, vilify or discredit any accepted therapies or any trans* identity when we have so much more in common and much advantage available in working together to achieve improved cis folk awareness and support, and as a result improved employment, health and safety for our fellow travellers.

SJ, again I ramble. 

Safe travels

Aisla

[helen2010]

"In the last few months I have embarrassed myself several times on this board with emotionally driven statements, and I fear I will alienate my closest friends here on the board, as well as begin to look like a horses ass.  I have to ask you, and me probably, to cut me some slack.  I take responsibility for my actions and words and feelings, never blame anything else for it, but I suspect that there MAY be some connection to that 800% increase in serums on the low end of the hormone levels."  Satinjoy

SJ

We are a family.  While I also share your fear of  alienating family this is unlikely.  I think that this fear is a product of sharing so much, caring for each other and our need for acceptance and validation.  Most of us have hidden ourselves from ourselves, as well as from others.  In the process, I think that we have become quite expert in discerning the motivation of others.  Friends judge messages and posts by intent, rather than by (often unintended) impact.  You are a dear friend of many.  Your fears are unfounded, as your positive intent has never been questioned.

Be well

Aisla

[Shantel]

Alienating me isn't going to happen here hon! Yeah I get that you are on an emotional roller coaster and it's quite normal. Way back when is was still in my first couple of years on estrogen my formerly male brain took a hard 90 degree turn to the female side and I embarrassed myself, my spouse, my kids and everyone round me. I cried every time we put on a chick-flick and at first she said it was cute and later she said, "Knock it off!" Eventually over a period of time my brain came back to center and I had some modicum of self control over my emotions and behavior. Tbh I have never known what my levels are and could care less, I leave that up to the endocrinologist as it tells him a lot more than it does me, all I know is that it's working. So in short if you think you get a bit goofy at times, don't worry about it, eventually you will be able to think with both sides of your brain when it comes back to center. Just my two bits worth based on my own experience.

[Satinjoy]

Erin-Luna-Aisla-Shantel

You put my fears to rest and get me to relax again.... so greatful for this

Erin, the last time I passed someone like that I spun the rear tires beside then and smoked them at 55 mph door to door.... there is nothing like a 2002 Z28 Camaro with the weight stripped off it.  My go to work family car..... and on the circle track, it was a truck that got me in the spectator race, and he was fishtailing all over the track.  Not something I will do in a classic muscle car, one of the greats at that.

Luna those are high levels my dear...

Aisla so great as always and reassuring big time

Shantel you are so fun to have in there, I'd put you in the forest as a grizzly bear in a tutu, full of joy and raw power.  If that doesn't fit, then pass me the tutu and you be you....

Anyway you all are special and always are so helpful... I am more at peace, especially knowing that this hormone stuff really does do the emotions bit.

Love to all here.  By the way, the fireflies in the forest and the stars over our heads?  Our silent watchers, waiting for their turns to come into the forest and reveal themselves.


Blessings, love to all here, and as always, nails out, heart open, living free

[Jessica Merriman]

My question for the wisdom of the board is - have you experienced any of this yourself- have hormones changed your interpersonal relations as well as the body, did you find yourself having to relearn feeling?  Did it affect the board shares?  Did it enrich them?

Transition has changed me 180 degrees, so at least in  my case I can answer a big YES that it changed my interpersonal skills, perception on life and what is important and enriched it significantly. In my case though I am stabilized by the simple fact I do not have to live to anyone else's expectations or accept any compromises in me being me. I think personally it is those two things keeping you confused. I do to some degree understand why you do it though. I just would not be able to personally function that way. 

Alienate me? Sweetie I am going to be here for you forever! 

[luna nyan]

SJ,

I know - my levels are high.  I'm torn over it actually as I have to make a choice at my next appointment.
1. Replace the same dose of implant and not have another for 6 months
2. Go on a lower dose implant, but have to have it replaced at 3 months
3.  Go back to orals.
Then:
1.  Stay on spiro - do I change my dosage?
2.  Stop spiro and have a Progesterone pellet instead.

I'm seriously over taking pills.  Very tempting to keep the pellet dosage and go on a P implant to go off spiro.  I've already halved my spiro dosage (with my endos prior approval) and that hasn't seemed to have made much difference.

I digress from your thread, my rambling belongs to my low dose HRT thread.

Thinking a bit more over my personal relationships, I can be a but more snappy.  My SO poked fun at me the other day saying I was PMSing.  Great.  :/

[Shantel]

SJ,

I know - my levels are high.  I'm torn over it actually as I have to make a choice at my next appointment.
1. Replace the same dose of implant and not have another for 6 months
2. Go on a lower dose implant, but have to have it replaced at 3 months
3.  Go back to orals.
Then:
1.  Stay on spiro - do I change my dosage?
2.  Stop spiro and have a Progesterone pellet instead.

I'm seriously over taking pills.  Very tempting to keep the pellet dosage and go on a P implant to go off spiro.  I've already halved my spiro dosage (with my endos prior approval) and that hasn't seemed to have made much difference.

I digress from your thread, my rambling belongs to my low dose HRT thread.

Thinking a bit more over my personal relationships, I can be a but more snappy.  My SO poked fun at me the other day saying I was PMSing.  Great.  :/

Much safer way to go and gives the liver a break! JennyGirl said she's on E pellet and P pellet with no Spiro and it seems to be working for her.

[luna nyan]

Much safer way to go and gives the liver a break! JennyGirl said she's on E pellet and P pellet with no Spiro and it seems to be working for her.

I know it's effective.  But in my case I'm balancing convenience, effectiveness in dulling the dysphoria, vs excessive feminisation.  I've mentioned the tension in my psyche before on a previous thread.  I'm juggling about 5 pins right now, I can do it, but I have to be careful.

E and P pellet would definitely work on the convenience and dysphasia control front.  It's the excess feminisation I'm concerned about.

[Satinjoy]

No experience on the P front.  I sure as heck pee a lot on Spiro.  What I have now works so I wont fix it.  Juggling hormones and limiting feminization has to be a real bit--.

I may revisit the tension thread, was thinking about you when I woke up this morning.

I made a tough decision last night to maintain my boundaries and stabilize the marriage. 

Jessica- Good that you "get me" now.  What I am doing is quite hard, knowing that there is support here if I go straight on into the wall helps.  Right now, this trans racecar has a bunch of sideswipes but is winning the race nonetheless.

Many thanks to all...

[Ms Grace]

I'm on E pellet and P oral with Spiro. My levels of E are very high, T at rock bottom. Strangely I haven't been very emotional. Sure I have cried and found it easy to do so, but that was in fairly extreme emotional circumstances, other than that, surprisingly, I have felt pretty calm. I say "surprisingly" because, during my first attempt at transition, I was an emotional train wreck - everything and anything would set me off and I'd be in tears. I was expecting the same this time but it hasn't happened.

From a treatment point of view I was on injections of Primogen Depot (fortnightly? monthly? I have no idea), two oral anti androgens (one being Androcur, the other I can't remember) and one other oral E. So it was quite a different regimen. Interestingly I never developed much on the boob front...AA if I was lucky. This time, emotionally stable and (so far) a B cup...I know which I prefer.

Apart from being older and in a very different phase of existence I do feel in control of my life (as much as I can be), am happy with where I am and where I am going, feel supported, valued and loved so that probably plays as much a part as anything. But between my first attempt at transition and now I also did a crap load of personal work, psychotherapy and other stuff helped me to better understand myself, my emotions and the world around me. Something I personally had no grasp of 24 years ago. There's a lot that used to get me upset and offended but these days I tend not to want to get myself entangled in certain dramas and problems. Maybe I'm a bit detached or aloof or something, I do care about a lot of things but I rarely engage with them if I feel it would make no difference. Maybe I'm cynical or cowardly but it's also about not wanting to feel powerless over things and people and situations I have no personal control of.

[luna nyan]

SJ,

Yah, the bladder is an issue on spiro... And given I enjoy my coffee as well...
It is why I'm seriously considering switching my meds at my next endo appt.  I don't mind fiddling and experimenting - fortunately I haven't reached the age where I have any concomitant health factors to deal with.

Work out clear goals for yourself - it's easier to let go of things if you have a clear endpoint in mind.  For me, age 55 is a fine age to get to without transition - I would consider my management of Dysphoria a complete success if I make it that far.  (A certain mod here has been hinting to me that I won't.  M gonna prove her wrong...)

Grace,

Older, wiser, and more likely to pick the worthwhile battles.  I think as we all gain life experience, you really do learn to only swear on the things that really matter.  It's interesting to hear about your previous regimen - particularly being on androcur - spiro is an old drug and should have been on the PBS...

[Satinjoy]

SJ,

Yah, the bladder is an issue on spiro... And given I enjoy my coffee as well...
It is why I'm seriously considering switching my meds at my next endo appt.  I don't mind fiddling and experimenting - fortunately I haven't reached the age where I have any concomitant health factors to deal with.

Work out clear goals for yourself - it's easier to let go of things if you have a clear endpoint in mind.  For me, age 55 is a fine age to get to without transition - I would consider my management of Dysphoria a complete success if I make it that far.  (A certain mod here has been hinting to me that I won't.  M gonna prove her wrong...)

You help my friend, you help me stay focused....

55 is when I hit the wall.   But the inevitiability of transition?  Nonbinary?  Changes our odds immensely.


Re the topic,

I find the bonding in here to be intense, the emotions to run very high, the feelings about the shares to be extremely sensitive, needy, caring..... I also find a freedom within the forum to really express the Satinjoy nature that is me, part of the core, but not all of it actually.  It is the female part, the neutral/male, for me, is SJ.  This is a recent perception...


But the emotions run so deep they scare me, and when I get close to people, many times I will run away, get a grip, then return.  I am threatened by it, it may have to do with the shut down duality of my physical attractions and needs, only one in this world gets that attention and those feelings, and she deserves all I have to give.

But nonetheless, the bonds are so deep, and the loneliness of off forum is too much.  Trapped, in a sense, thank God the support is here, as is the deeper understanding of the lives we live and the stakes we face.

Blessings.

--SJ