Question about HRT and changes in facial bone structure

[notna91]

Hello everyone,

I have an important question. First of all, Im not a transsexual or transgender. I am a guy, 23 years of age, who took finasteride, an anti-androgen, you probably know of. I took this because I was concernd of my hairloss, in order to keep my hair from falling out. A few month into the "treatment" I noticed facial changes, to be more specific.... loss of subcutanous fat around the eyes. I stopped the drug immediately, expecting the fat loss to stop and reverse... didnt happen. Now, 4 month after stopping, I still suffer from side effects, like low-libido, sperm-count, erectile difficulties and my facial changes became even worse. Side note, this condition is also know as "Post-Finasteride-Syndrome". Now 5 month after stopping, I stated to experience extreme jaw/chin and cheekbone-ache/pain. At the same time, I unfotunately had to find, hat I was loosing bone-mass in my face. Especially my chin has decreased in size, but also the lenght of the jaw and even my cheekbones are less prominent. I know this may sound completly psychotic and crazy, but I know for sure that this happened, and photos prove this too. Also, other members of the post-finasteride-syndrom forum experience this, meaning the shrinkage of jaw,chin and cheekbones- this making the face more feminin and child-like. Bascially now, I have huge issues with my appearane. I dont look in the mirror anymore, because I dont recognize myself anymore. THe person I see is not who I was. But I still hope ethis is somehowe reversible, and thats why I am here. I wanted to ask everyone weather they experienced too changes in the bone structure. Did any of you who had HRT notice changes in the bone mass in your face, either making your jaw or chin bigger or smaller?

I know, usually there are no changes to the bone structure of the face, but in my case this happened, and i guess this is an exception and only related to the post-finasteride-syndrome, and not to HRT in any way.

Thanks for your anwers.

[Ayden]

I don't take female HRT, but I can say that coming from the other side and taking testosterone I didnt have any bone changes in my face, just fat. I haven't had any bone changes at all.

I haven't heard of skeletal structure changes to any real extreme in any of my personal conversations or research. The only guess I can give you is that human bones are not fully fused until we are into adulthood. For some people this can be up to 25 years old. Perhaps the changing facial structure is, in part, due to that. I do hope that you feel better soon and that these changes that you dislike can be reversed for you, especially if it was due to such a common drug. I worked pharmacy for a few years and I must have filled hundreds of those prescriptions.

[kelly_aus]

I don't take female HRT, but I can say that coming from the other side and taking testosterone I didnt have any bone changes in my face, just fat. I haven't had any bone changes at all.

I haven't heard of skeletal structure changes to any real extreme in any of my personal conversations or research. The only guess I can give you is that human bones are not fully fused until we are into adulthood. For some people this can be up to 25 years old. Perhaps the changing facial structure is, in part, due to that. I do hope that you feel better soon and that these changes that you dislike can be reversed for you, especially if it was due to such a common drug. I worked pharmacy for a few years and I must have filled hundreds of those prescriptions.

The effects on libido and erectile function are well known and your prescribing doctor should have warned you about them.

As to the changes in bone structure, I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibilities.. Finasteride is a 5α-reductase inhibitor, which means it prevents the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. DHT is the primary driver behind MPB, as we all know. The problem I have, is that I would have thought the bone loss would also require 2 other things.. A lowering of your T level and for you to be much younger. 

[Ms Grace]

I find it odd though. Maybe the change in musculature and fat distribution has made it look like it is skeletal in nature when that's not the case?? At any rate, have you seen a doctor about this, there might be something else going on totally unrelated to the Finasteride.

[notna91]

Hi everyone,

thank you for your answers. I dont understand why this is happening, because its common knowledge that the bone structre doesnt change with taking hormones or hormone-inhibitors. I've scanned through some before-after photos on here, and also didnt find any jaw changes. But it did happen to me, and its not an optical illusion or something like that. I know, my chin and jaw bone changed because i can feel its much smaller, especially the chin. It is visible on photos too. Along with the bone-loss came massive pain in that area. Always when i lose more bone, it really hurts a lot, and it drives me insane knowing that the pain is bone loss. Some people on the post-finasteride-forum also report this (the jaw pain and jaw-bone loss). My face looks so different, i cant recognise myself in the mirror anymore 

[Ms Grace]

Please see a doctor ASAP, I have the feeling something else is going on and you should have it seen to.

[Monkeymel]

I concur with Ms Grace. Bone is constantly - slowly - remodeled / rebuilt where areas if greater stress occur. Eg healed bone after a bad break. However fast degeneration is a sign of lack of regeneration and similar to osteoporosis - it has to be followed by a doctor doing micro CT to look at the bone density.

[Brenda E]

Side note, this condition is also know as "Post-Finasteride-Syndrome". . . . Also, other members of the post-finasteride-syndrom forum experience this . . .

I'd like to make a brief side note that having seen that particular forum before, be careful not to get sucked into the extraordinary levels of conspiracy theories that seem to be circulated around this particular medication.  There is no huge cover-up of undisclosed side effects by the manufacturers of this drug (which has been around for a long time, even in its generic form).  There seem to be many users who are strongly A-type heterosexual males preoccupied with their appearances (including loss of hair), many of whom are also highly-sexual and who associate their worth as "real men" to be tied to how well they can perform in the bedroom and how many ladies they can get to fawn over them at bars.  As men get older, they naturally change; the drug itself, while having many documented side effects, has been unfairly blamed for the natural effects of aging or other totally-unrelated conditions.  Many seem rather angry that Finsteride hasn't been what they expected it to be, when in fact all they're complaining about is the clearly described side effects.

The drug, I think, is probably incorrectly described though, and for many guys who are taking it to preserve their sense of manhood that comes from a full head of hair, they are actually taking something that will probably make them far less manly in the long run.  The feminizing side effects are under-described if anything, but it's highly unlikely that there are any extremely harmful, common side effects that are somehow unknown to the entire medical community, but well known to a bunch of frustrated guys on the internet.

Furthermore, that particular forum seems to be a "feeder forum" for a "non-profit organization" that is supposedly funding research into Post Finasteride Syndrome, but there's a few things about it all that makes me think that the entire enterprise is nothing more than the early stage development of a future class action lawsuit based around a condition which kinda doesn't really exist, but which a jury could be convinced might exist if the lawyers confuse everyone enough to award compensation, most of which - surprise! - is taken up in legal fees.

In other words, stay away from that forum and find yourself a real doctor.  The internet is not going to be a good substitute for proper medical advice in your case.  Finasteride is a powerful drug with well-documented and fully-disclosed significant side effects, but it sounds like there's something else going on.

[kelly_aus]

The loss of llibido and sperm production are listed in the product info, as is the gyecomastia. It even mentions that they may persist beyond ceasing taking the drug..

Merck's product info for propecia.[/url]]The most common side effects of PROPECIA include:
• decrease in sex drive
• trouble getting or keeping an erection
• a decrease in the amount of semen

The following have been reported in general use with PROPECIA:
• breast tenderness and enlargement. Tell your healthcare provider about any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain or nipple discharge.
• depression;
• decrease in sex drive that continued after stopping the medication;
• allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives and swelling of the lips, tongue, throat,and face;
• problems with ejaculation that continued after stopping medication;
• testicular pain;
• difficulty in achieving an erection that continued after stopping the medication;
• male infertility and/or poor quality of semen.
• in rare cases, male breast cancer.

The main problem I have is that I cannot see by what action a 5α-reductase inhibitor could cause bone loss - not without creating some other issues first. Oddly enough, some of us here are very well educated on the various drugs used for transition - and how they interact with other substances.

I have no shame in my gender identity, none at all. Why should I? I'm a woman like any other.

[Brenda E]

With the utmost respect: don't insult those who are trying to help you.  I'm sure all the girls in this thread found your comments as offensive as I did.  And as Kelly mentioned, many of us do know what we're talking about.

Kelly also most kindly posted a list of the common side effects of Finasteride right above, a list which is widely available from multiple sources (including your doctor and the pharmacy that supplied the medication.)  You should read her post carefully because it details pretty much every side effect you've experienced.  In the future, you should also read drug documentation fully and decide whether the risks of the side effects listed are worth it before you start popping the pills - basic common sense, really.

As a side note, you probably came to the worst site possible on the entire internet for validation of what a real big man you are.  We're not at all impressed.  Been there, done that, but you keep working on it, honey.

[Brenda E]

Well, I dont think it is, so go f%%% yourself.

Classy...

[notna91]

merck doesnt mention all side effect because it would be banned. No atrophies mentioned:
- facial bone atrophy
- facial fat atrophy
- penile shrinkage
- scrotum shrinkage

also other sides like:
- hair texture changes, acne, etc..

This drug should be taken off them market asap. And it will, once the studies, which are currently undertaken at baylor and harvard universitiy, show what permanent damage propecia does to the body.

[Hikari]

I take dutasteride which is much more effective at stopping DHT and I know I hadn't had nor seen others have actual bone changes from it. Maybe over the course of a great many years it could be possible, but a rapid loss of bone sounds like something very different than 5ar inhibition.

If I were the OP I would go to the doctor and see if the doctor can find a cause, the likelyhood of finisteride causing this is low enough to where it needs to be investigated medically, it could be a simple coincidence.

[Ms Grace]

Well, I dont think it is, so go f%%% yourself.

I'll say this once, that kind of response to anyone on this site will not be tolerated. People are trying to help if you don't like their responses there's no need to be rude about it.

So the side effects are not listed on the pack, couldn't that mean that what you are experiencing might not be caused by the Finasteride at all? For the sake of your health and well being please go see a medical professional instead of asking a forum of "people who have no clue what they are talking about".

[Pinkkatie]

I agree with many who posted on here that the OP should see a doctor. I suspect this is unrelated to the drug.

I wish the drug would change my skeletal feature, but it doesn't. I'm just hoping that the changes in body fat will be enough. It'll save me money from having to get surgery.

[Apples Mk.II]

My endo called dutasteride "a piss poor weak antiandrogen that can't do anything". And we are talking about finasteride, the "junior" version.. Whatever happens to you, it isn't a dht inhibitor. I'd could understand having depression, or lower libido... Apparently I'm a T powerhouse, so it had zero negative effects on me. But bone changes... I wish it would happen, oit would save me a lot on FFS.

[notna91]

well, everyone sais this could be unrelated and just a coincidence.
but

Why is my brother suffering from the same side effects too, he took it at the same time as me for 3 month too. Same problems now: bone loss, libido loss, penile shrinkage, low sperm volume.

There are lots of members on the forum with post-finasteride-syndrom who also suffer from facial bone changes... mostly bone loss, some people bone growth.

Whatever.


This has nothing to do with "normal" mechanism finasteride should work like. This is a special condition which only effects 0,1% -1% of the users...

Whatever some doctors say, doesnt mean its true. If your doctor says... its harmless, this means nothing.

Lets not predent like all drugs are safe. We know that they could be harmful, from the VIOXX scandal. over 100,000 peoples deaths are attributed to the taking of vioxx. It was on the market for 10 years. Now it was taken from the market.

What is considerd "safe" now could be considered harmful in the future, when science brings light to this mess.

just remember that there is a forum with over 3000 users who suffer from persistent side effecs from taking finasteride, which were not mentioned all on the product leeflet. Most of them are life changing. Many of the sufferers are suicidal.

So please dont make premature assumptions, about something, by logic, you can not be sure of at all.

Mod edit: Language

[Ms Grace]

Clearly you are not interested in what we have to say. Why ask if you don't want to hear the answers? Go see a doctor.

Topic locked.