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herbal Hormone treatment

Started by mary83054, August 11, 2005, 03:31:19 AM

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mary83054

I have a question regarding herbal hormones.  I am currently working out of country and do not have access to counseling or Dr's. I was in counseling for a period of time while I was back in the Us.  My current contract is for at least another year 9actullay two more but I am trying to get out of that comitment so I can return home and continue therapy and everything else.
    Anyway here is my question I am soooo tired of being in my male mode and not feeling like I am making any progress inbecomeing who I am.  I have ordered but not yet taken as I am still awaiting their delivery by a friend coming to visit, some herbal female hormone suplements.  I want to start them and know that they will not make any large changes but am hoping that they will help in some small ways.  I am curently shaving my body for example so I am hoping that they will help curtail hair re-grwoth.  Does anyone have nay experience with thiis.  Or has anyone had any real bad experience with it and think that this is a totally dumb idea.  I am open and seriously looking for advice here.

Thanks  and hugs   :o

Mary
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Leigh

You asked about any changes.  The only change  you will notice is the amount of money you have left.
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Kendall

I gained weight. In gaining weight i developed more chest tissue. Probably would have gained it more if i had just gained a lot of weight. Herbals just seemed to make me gain it.
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Terri-Gene

Mary, Herbals just arn't going to cut it in any significant way, as Leigh said, all it will acomplish is a dent in your wallet.  You can do a lot more for yourself by investing in facial electrolysis or Laser if you prefer, and making the true commitments to live as and within the Female environment.

It may seem impossible to you that you could live and identify as female without the benifit of hormones, but it can be done.  I spent several years arguing with Doctors about health issues in my case concerning hormones and was declaired medically unfit to use them even though in all other regards I was perfectly physically fit.

I had already been living full time for some years before ever obtaining my hormone script.  I know if I could do it, with my overpowering masculine attitudes and physical stature of the time, then surely most others could.  I knew I could never actually "fit" at the time, but at least it eased some of the conflict of keeping up the pretense of hiding behind the male image and at present time, I can not imagine how I managed to maintain that image and the pain it cost me for so long.  Any more, there is little or nothing my psychiatrist or my psychologist can do about my gender identity issues as they have pretty much relsolved themselves, leaving me only with other issues which grew out of attempting to NOT accept the truth.  At present, I am being assigned a third psychiatric professional to specifically help in some of these other issues in an attempt to see me through to the end.

Know this Mary, if you truely do have a complete and total conviction within yourself, the longer you do nothing, or attempt to "kid" yourself with unrealistic measures, you will increaseingly spiral down a dark hole you don't want to enter.

If you can't do therapy to deal with your feelings at the moment, though that should be a top priority right now, then at least do what facial electro or laser you can manage and begin to let your true personality come through in your relationships with people, even if you do not "dress" or take on feminine appearance.

Don't worry about body hair for right now.  After the face is done, you may see a need to address body hair, but after real hormones have been in effect for a while, most body hair will at least thin or lighten out, depending on it's texture and density.

Good luck Mary, but if actually Becoming is really important to you, do not waste any time.  If you can't start hormones at the moment, then do all the other things which have to also be addressed so that you can feel you are making progress.

I have found that as long as you yourself can see and experience true progress in the direction of your goal, then I feel much more at ease and am more comfortable with myself, knowing that the present condition is temporary, but when I see forward progress being threatened, I enter into a world of doubt and fear of the future.  You don't want to even touch that world, so do everything you can and damn the risk or the expense.  It means your life in every sense of the word and concept.

Terri
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Cassandra

There is absolutely no evidence that herbal hormones have any effect at feminization. As far as body hair goes actual hormones are a little spotty in that department and have no effect on facial hair. You would do better to just save your money for when you get back. You might try seeing if you can't get electrolysis for your facial hair. They might think you a bit strange but you shouldn't run afoul of any religious clerics. From your posts sounds like you might be in a muslim country. Some are very progressive in this area according to some recent news regarding a transexual in, I believe it was, Iran. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But the reference to the article was in the News forum.

Of course if your trying to get out of your commitement you might try going to work enfemme without any warning. That might terminate your contract early. Any way don't waste your money on herbs. They are of some benefit to a GG but are useless for a TS.

There is one herbal you might try that might have some effect on hair but it is used for hairgrowth on your head. I cannot testify to it's efficacy and I have seen no data on it. You may have heard of an herbal concoction called Avacor. It is supposed to block DHT's, considered responsible for male pattern baldness. DHT's are produced by testosterone. If it blocks DHT it may be effective in reducing total testosterone which might at least make you feel less aggressive. It's not cheap but they advertise a three months supply free to try it.

As with most herbals the claims are most likely overstated or downright false. Caveate emptor.

Good Journey,


Cassie
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stephanie_craxford

Hello Mary.

I just wanted add my 2 Canadian Cents to this, and it's short and sweet...

Don't waste your time or money with herbal hormones, period.

Take care

Steph
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mary83054

I want to thank all of you for responding to this post.  Although not what i really wanted to hear it was very helpful.  I have already spent the money but it was not much less that $100 for that which I purchased as a trial basis.  I probably will not bother now especially if they will cause weight gain as I am already trying to loose weight and want nothing to hinder that process until I reach my desired goal.   I already struglle deeply with the psychological issues about not feeling like I making any headway and you are right it is a black hole that I really don't want to be faling into but I can't seem to stop.  And yes there are days that hole seems very black which is one reason why I came back to Susan's place to be able to have some understanding folks.

I love all of you and thanks:

Mary
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stephanie_craxford

Hello Mary,

Don't fret hon, just remember that hormones are only a part of the journey.  You need to address the psychological issues as well, and the best advise for that is for you to restart your therapy, and see your medical profesional.  This, generally, is always the best place to start.  In your case you have to decide if all this is worth, terminating your present comitments, and how much impact this will have on you in the future.  Your's is a unique problem in that you are out of your home country, and your decisions may affect your livelihood. There may be someone here who have travelled that same route, check out some of the posts in:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,52.0.html

Take care,

Steph
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JohannaJohn

This thread has not been posted to for years, but I would just say this...

REAL and pure hormones REALLY DO WORK for sure, for sure, for sure...

I can personally attests to their delightful physical and mental effectiveness, jsut 5 weeks int, as I am now.

Why take an unsure "substitute," when you can take "the real deal" with well-oroven, well-tested, well-documented RESULTS in the real world.

Joanna.
I am female.
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Sarah84

Hi Mary. I have an experience with herbal "hormones". I was taking them for 3 months without any measurable results. So unfortunately I must confirm that it is pointless to use them. Those herbal mixtures must be taken in insanely high dosages and I think that the only result they give you is additional load on your liver. And they are extremely expensive compared to real estradiol.
My real name is Monika :)
HRT: 11.11.2014
SRS: 5.11.2015 with Chettawut
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Oriah

I spent 2 1/2 years on herbals, of three years transitioning.  I ended up with C cups by the end of it, and weight redistributed in the right places.  It CAN be done, but you have to find the right herb(s) and doses.  There's really only one with a strong enough estrogenic effect, but it won't do as much without an antiandrogen.
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teeg

Quote from: Sarah84 on July 19, 2014, 03:12:37 AMI was taking them for 3 months without any measurable results. So unfortunately I must confirm that it is pointless to use them.
This is exactly right. Herbs, etc., will make barely any difference if any. If/when their difference can be measured it's usually so insignificant it's seen as a waste of time. Herbs and supplements are a drop in the bucket at best compared to medical grade bio identical hormones.

Quote from: Oriah on July 19, 2014, 12:24:15 PMI spent 2 1/2 years on herbals, of three years transitioning.  I ended up with C cups by the end of it, and weight redistributed in the right places.  It CAN be done, but you have to find the right herb(s) and doses.
To me it's strange that if you look everywhere else at people mentioning using herbs and supplements medically, for body building, general health, etc. it's a known fact that they're useless and don't make any worth while differences. Practitioners and patients that take part in herbal medicine aren't thought of as crazy for no reason. Yet time and time again on this forum and within the transgender community there are many people who, for whatever reason, claim that magically they worked for them. It's bad enough that there's so little professional research on the different aspects of transgendered care and health. To add false information on top of that isn't necessary.
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Sarah84

Quote from: Oriah on July 19, 2014, 12:24:15 PM
I spent 2 1/2 years on herbals, of three years transitioning.  I ended up with C cups by the end of it, and weight redistributed in the right places.  It CAN be done, but you have to find the right herb(s) and doses.  There's really only one with a strong enough estrogenic effect, but it won't do as much without an antiandrogen.

So you used some phytoestrogenic plants combined with a medical grade anti-androgen(spiro/cyproterone)? When I was using herbs I was using two products one claiming that it will reduce testosterone and second should be combination of plants for estrogenic effects. I did a blood test after 3 months and T was exactly same as before(difference was about 1%, which means no difference). So I guess it has no effect at all for any kind of T blocking. My E was on the top end of male interval, but estradiol test is useless because it measures only bioidentical 17B-estradiol, so I will not try do any statements based on this one. Truth is that my skin was a little bit softer when using phytoestrogens, but there was no other result. But after I started taking bio-identical estradiol the results(breasts ...) started to be visible in next 2 months. Maybe you have very sensitive biochemistry or maybe adding of real anti-androgen helped. But I believe that in my case it would never bring nothing more than softer skin.

I see one huge problem with plants. And it is the amount of plants that one has to consume to trigger any kind of change. And it means you are putting a lot of chemicals besides hormones in the body. I don't think that using herbs is safer than real hormones. The problem with bio-identical estradiol is that it is so potent that overdosing can cause problems. But when it used properly in correct doses I believe that it is healthier than tons of herbs.
My real name is Monika :)
HRT: 11.11.2014
SRS: 5.11.2015 with Chettawut
  •  

Oriah

Quote from: Sarah84 on July 19, 2014, 04:48:57 PM
So you used some phytoestrogenic plants combined with a medical grade anti-androgen(spiro/cyproterone)? When I was using herbs I was using two products one claiming that it will reduce testosterone and second should be combination of plants for estrogenic effects. I did a blood test after 3 months and T was exactly same as before(difference was about 1%, which means no difference). So I guess it has no effect at all for any kind of T blocking. My E was on the top end of male interval, but estradiol test is useless because it measures only bioidentical 17B-estradiol, so I will not try do any statements based on this one. Truth is that my skin was a little bit softer when using phytoestrogens, but there was no other result. But after I started taking bio-identical estradiol the results(breasts ...) started to be visible in next 2 months. Maybe you have very sensitive biochemistry or maybe adding of real anti-androgen helped. But I believe that in my case it would never bring nothing more than softer skin.

I see one huge problem with plants. And it is the amount of plants that one has to consume to trigger any kind of change. And it means you are putting a lot of chemicals besides hormones in the body. I don't think that using herbs is safer than real hormones. The problem with bio-identical estradiol is that it is so potent that overdosing can cause problems. But when it used properly in correct doses I believe that it is healthier than tons of herbs.

I used a few different plant antiandrogens over the years, cycling between them.  I only used one herb, and at relatively low doses, never more than a few grams a day.  Like I said, the one I used was very potent, I have no unusual sensitivity. 

This is probably dicey sounding, but the staff has already given me a rash of trouble for talking about this particular herb, so I'm not really at liberty to say much more.  All I can say is that I have no reason to lie, and that it IS possible to do an all herbal effective hrt.  Beyond that, you'll have to do your own research like I did
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Paige


I don't think the point should be whether herbs work or not.   I wish people would just get to the crux of this.  Without proper medical supervision, all types of hrt medications/herbs can be dangerous.

Take care,
Paige
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Jessica Merriman

Quote from: Paige on July 20, 2014, 10:44:18 PM
I don't think the point should be whether herbs work or not.   I wish people would just get to the crux of this.  Without proper medical supervision, all types of hrt medications/herbs can be dangerous.
This above and they are not regulated, controlled or quality assured. You never know what you are getting because proprietary ingredients do not have to be listed or studied for safety.  :)
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JohannaJohn

I use E and P.  One is medical grade from Bayer of Europe, and it is hard to get more trustworthy as to purity that the brand name Bayer.

The other is medical grade from one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the Latin country I live in.  I am absolutely confident of its medical-grade efficacy.  This company has a long track record in Latin America for reliable pharmaceutical products

5 weeks in, well, what can I say?  These both work great.  I have protruding nipples, white bumps on my areolas and nipples hills, my nipples look ready NOW for a baby to nurse on them.

My breasts are round, and female.  This has never happened to me.  These are JUST starting to push out a LITTLE...not much, but I can see the difference.  So can my 6 year old daughter, as she was staring at my breasts at the pool today.

I have close to ZERO body odor.  My acne has disappeared.

My hair quality is MUCH better, and softer, and a little fuller.

And I am FIFTY SIX years old.  Wowowowowoow!  This is especially amazing I think, for starting at age 56.

Best of all, I feel great.  I feel SO right.

Can herbs do this is just 5 weeks?  I would be extremely skeptical of this.  Plus, I KNOW for sure the medical purity of what I am putting into my body.

One herbal is particularly risky, wildlly popular, you can look it up on Google, and has wildly variable results.  Ths particular herbal, which I am forbidden to discuss on this Website, is SO risky that it has been BANNED from discussion on this Site.  Just look up the Site rules to know which one I am referring to.

E and P, solid medical grade both of them from highly reputable pharm co's, have given me spectacular results just 5 weeks in.  Why would ANYONE risk wildly risky side effects of, iin particular, the particular supplement that has been banned for discussion on this site???

Hugs,
Johanna
I am female.
  •  

VeryGnawty

Quote from: Leigh on August 11, 2005, 09:43:51 AM
You asked about any changes.  The only change  you will notice is the amount of money you have left.

^^
This.

From what I understand, the herbs that actually do work (if you can even figure out which those are) have such an incredibly small potency that you'd basically need a perfect diet and lifestyle before they even did anything at all.  So, you'd actually be spending money even trying to figure out if anything works, and then you'd be spending a lot more money trying to use it to change the body.  This is combined with the fact that a lot of herbal products are trash in the first place because of no regulation, so you're probably buying a sugar or rice pill anyway.

There is a reason that most people don't use herbs to try to transition.  While it may be theoretically possible to feminize the body with herbs, it's practically impossible because of poor and uncertain quality products, extremely low potency, high COST because you're paying big dollars for extremely low potency, and the fact that because the potential of most herbal products is so low you probably wouldn't even be able to tell if anything is working unless you spent a ridiculous amount of time carefully testing doses (I'm talking years or DECADES of testing various products)

Basically, the amount of money and work you'd have to put into transitioning with herbs will most likely be a lot more than the amount of money and work you would have to put into transitioning through other methods.  If you had an infinite amount of money and an infinite amount of time, yeah you could probably find some herb somewhere that could feminize a body.  But I've never encountered a herb that does that, at least not to the extent that the advertisers and the people selling it like to claim....
"The cake is a lie."
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Joelene9

Quote from: Oriah on July 19, 2014, 12:24:15 PM
I spent 2 1/2 years on herbals, of three years transitioning.  I ended up with C cups by the end of it, and weight redistributed in the right places.  It CAN be done, but you have to find the right herb(s) and doses.  There's really only one with a strong enough estrogenic effect, but it won't do as much without an antiandrogen.
I seen only a few on herbals that have the result above.  It is probably that you have a lower T level to begin with.  There are other factors, including faith and willpower. Those last two do well in some people by themselves.  I started with the herbals.
  My results after one year on HRT vs herbals: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,110446.msg834877.html#msg834877

  Joelene
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