In the order of dysphoria, your 5 most hated secondary male charactersistics

[Carrie Liz]

Carrie about what month in until you've noticed discernible muscle loss?

I felt it only a few months in, (REALLY bad muscle fatigue, and I couldn't serve a volleyball overhand anymore because it kept falling short of the net,) but I didn't really start seeing a significant visual change until about the 7-8 month mark. It's been ongoing ever since then, at a pretty consistent rate. I feel pretty close to the female norm now, just shy of 19 months in. My arms are getting really skinny, and I can feel the "lightness" every time I move.

[Kaylin Kumiho]

1. Forehead. I know it could be worse, but every single time I look in the mirror I just laser in on that damn thing >_<
2. Facial stubble. When it's short, it's painful to shave, and I have no job, so no hair removal until job.
3. Belly. I don't weigh much, you can see my ribs, and my legs and arms look pretty great... but my belly is so flabby no matter what I do >_<
4. Hairline. The M is slowly squaring off, but it's taking so long, i found a shampoo that helps, but it's like... I want to take so many showers just to speed it up... but that'll only make it worse :<
5. Nose. Just... bleh.

[AnnaCannibal]

1. Elbows
2. Ears
3. Ankles
4. Clavicles
5. Septum

[Alaia]

1) Face (nose and brow mostly)
2) facial hair
3) male hairline and thin flat hair
4) Adam's apple
5) Body shape - no hips but big ribs and shoulders for a girl.

[Just Shelly]

1. Hands

2. Poor complexion

3. ugly legs (complexion, scars) I Actual still have a scar from shaving my legs poorly when I was 17 yrs old

4. thin and fine hair

5. the thing between my legs!! Although its a primary one, I consider it a secondary one since no one else knows its there except for me.

[Evelyn K]

I felt it only a few months in, (REALLY bad muscle fatigue, and I couldn't serve a volleyball overhand anymore because it kept falling short of the net,) but I didn't really start seeing a significant visual change until about the 7-8 month mark. It's been ongoing ever since then, at a pretty consistent rate. I feel pretty close to the female norm now, just shy of 19 months in. My arms are getting really skinny, and I can feel the "lightness" every time I move.

I keep reading about this magic 7-8 month mark in HRT.

Sounds like something to really look forward to... 3 and 1/2 months to go!

[FalseHybridPrincess]

I keep reading about this magic 7-8 month mark in HRT.

Sounds like something to really look forward to... 3 and 1/2 months to go!

dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially  bullsh*t

[Rachel]

Dysphoric things
1) MPB (getting better, slowly)
2) Facial hair
3) Adam's apple
4) stomach (although my wife says I am cray)
5) genitals (getting smaller every day, yay, those nasty things)
6) height
7) voice ( been practicing for 1.5 years and it is getting better)

Things I love about HRT
1) Boobs a growing
2) body hair is like that of a female, very happy.
3) Mental and psychological
4) softness
5) loss of muscle
6) Doing something in a positive direction.

[Evelyn K]

dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially  bullsh*t

That's what I'm thinking also. Reason being, some gals are starting off on some really low therapeutic levels of estrogen (you know, gatekeeping and testing) and for months on out. So who really knows...

[Carrie Liz]

dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially  bullsh*t

Yeah, it is mainly steady. I think the reason why everyone feels like the 7-8 month mark is some sort of magic "takeoff" point is just because that's about the time where the differences are becoming noticeable enough that you can actually see them. But yeah, I agree, it is a slow steady thing. I'm just saying that 7-8 months was the first time that I could look back at how I looked in the beginning and really start seeing a significant difference comparatively.

[April Lee]

This one is easy: Body hair, Body hair, Body hair, Body hair, Body hair

Everything else is well known and predictable, but body hair is different. No matter how much hair removal I do, there are always seems to be a few hairs that make their appearance at the most embarrassing of moments. I don't know how they get missed, and suddenly show up way longer they should, but it happens to me on a regular basis.

[Miyuki]

This one is easy: Body hair

Everything else is well known and predictable, but body hair is different. No matter how much hair removal I do, there are always seems to be a few hairs that make their appearance at the most embarrassing of moments. I don't know how they get missed, and suddenly show up way longer they should, but it happens to me on a regular basis.

They could just be ingrown hair that got stuck beneath the surface before emerging all at once. This is a constant problem for me too, because my follicles are so deep. I used to get a ton of ingrown hair on my arm and legs even before I did any hair removal. But at the time I didn't even realize it. I thought they were just weird ugly bumps that my body decided to create for no apparent reason. Just one more thing to hate about my body, on a long, long list of things...

[Kylie]

1. Lack of hips and butt
2. Large bones structure (esp wrists, ankles neck)
3. Voice
4. Feet aren't huge (9.5-10) but are just large enough that it is impossible to find regular shoes
5. Hands (sausage fingers)

[Evelyn K]

My adams apple is my most intense source of M2F strife and it annoys the hell out of me. I am getting it scythed with extreme prejudice before the end of the year.

Anyway I would list in the order of my dysphoria:

#1 - adams apple
#2 - broader shoulders than cis female
#3 - upper body muscle mass
#4 - lower body muscle mass
#5 - decidedly male hairline

My facial features and structure are not too bad, voice is improving, my hands and feet are small and I'm short, beard shadow almost gone, so anything else would make for a more extended list

I'm seriously thinking about addressing #3 and #4 by going on a 1-month cardio marathon and protein/carb elimination in my diet. Will help to address #2 as well. I just want to burn off these f'n muscles. Just going nuts running 2 miles a day and an hour on the elliptical. You know you're burning muscle protein when you smell like ammonia at the end of the workout.

The only problem is, with this much stress hormones and cortisol created from all the cardio I don't want it to effect my hair. I'll lose a lot of body fat and my face will get sunken. Perhaps the upside is I lose the muscle and can yo-yo back up the body fat in female proportions.

This is motivation enough:



I'm just a lil' bit jellus!

[ClaudiaLove]

I'm seriously thinking about addressing #3 and #4 by going on a 1-month cardio marathon and protein/carb elimination in my diet. Will help to address #2 as well. I just want to burn off these f'n muscles. Just going nuts running 2 miles a day and an hour on the elliptical. You know you're burning muscle protein when you smell like ammonia at the end of the workout.

The only problem is, with this much stress hormones and cortisol created from all the cardio I don't want it to effect my hair. I'll lose a lot of body fat and my face will get sunken. Perhaps the upside is I lose the muscle and can yo-yo back up the body fat in female proportions.

  Cardio I would do myself too  ,  yet protein/carb elimination  ,  especially protein elimination is something I am worried about . I am already loosing hair at an alarming rate and it seems that hair needs a lot of protein and calories . A month without them would diverse whatever amount of them are in the blood , towards the vital organs .
  I am focusing on regrowth , so at the moment I am even supplementing my diet with protein powder  ( it is kinda triggering , a few years ago I was using it for bodybuilding purposes )
  So I will just go with the cardio , and patience  ,  waiting for the estrogen and progesterone effects . After all the body won't change in an instant . It takes time .

[Evelyn K]

That's a risk I'm willing to take - possibility of some system shock hair loss. But it will eventually come back.

I mentioned it before, you never see bulky marathon runners. Their limbs are lanky and thin because their physique is optimized for long distance running this way.

[rosinstraya]

I mentioned it before, you never see bulky marathon runners. Their limbs are lanky and thin because their physique is optimized for long distance running this way.

Umm, I've run six of these.....belly is still an issue. So, yeah, gut size is a problem. There are of course plenty of marathon runners who fit the description though - they finish just a bit more quickly than I do, however.

I'd also suggest (secondary or not) that anger, aggression and frustration have been a real problem for me. Mostly they've been internalised and, now I'm honest with myself, they're much reduced.

[Evelyn K]

^^ No bulky as in muscle bulk. Too much slow twitch muscle weighs the runner down.

[rosinstraya]

Fair point - I've never gone for muscle bulk. Gut bulk - a little more so. Must get out and run a bit more!

[Valleyrie]

1. Voice
2. Laryngeal prominence
3. Genitals
4. Body shape
5. Body hair

Bit hard to order them, it'd probably change depending on how I felt and the circumstance but yeah.