When people misgender what is really going on in their heads?

[Ms Grace]

I think I need a sign over my desk at work...
DAYS SINCE A MISGENDERING: #

As of yesterday it was probably 10 or 12... maybe more. It had been a while since the last incident and I was beginning to wonder if, after 4 and a half months, things had finally settled in. Then one of my colleagues had to go and spoil it by calling me a "clever boy" in response to comment I had made. She was immediately apologetic and corrected herself. She's been generally good, using my preferred name, etc... but her and another woman of a similar age (late 50s, early 60s) are the two struggling the most to get my gender right in third person comments, etc. It's not because they aren't trying, but when they are on auto pilot and saying things without thinking then the wrong words come out. It is disappointing though. I presume that at some level it must mean they don't see me as female.

It's like speaking a second language, always translating your native tongue into the second language before speaking it rather than simply thinking in the second language in the first place. Most of the time they must be translating my gender in their head before they speak, they still see me as a "he" at some fundamental level and have to translate that to "she" before they speak. When they think about me they must still think of me as a "he", "him", "sir", "boy", "man", "Mr". Presumably it wouldn't be an issue otherwise.

I can relate to the difficulty though - I have a trans guy friend who I knew pre transition. I struggle sometimes - even though he presents convincingly as male, if I think of him for some random reason the first pronoun my mind reaches for sometimes is "she"... and that's after five years. Pathetic, I know. At least I get it right when it comes out of my mouth but it's no excuse and disrespectful. So if I can still get it wrong in my brain - someone who is trans and understands the humiliation and disappointment being misgendered - it can't be any easier for others even if they are supportive.

What to do?

[Carrie Liz]

I think it's because when people are talking about you, they're usually drawing upon their past experiences with you rather than who you are at face value right now.

Like, when I'm talking about my ex-girlfriend, I'm always imagining a picture of her in our living room dancing along to cheesy 60s records, or laughing about something. That's the image of her that I associate with her.

So the longer the past history you have with someone, the harder it's going to be for them to mentally re-write that history and remember that you're a different gender now.


And to be fair, I have a hard time properly gendering pre-T trans guys at our support group sometimes too. And I'm pretty embarrassed about it, because I'm supposed to know better. (It's probably because I'm picking apart all of their feminine features that I'm jealous of in my head. Which admittedly isn't a good thing, because I'm honing in on the very things that they feel dysphoric about. I've really got to quit doing that.)

(Side note: I wonder if they do the same thing to us? )

[Jennygirl]

I'm guilty as well of misgendering other trans people. It's happened twice but it's been about a year since the last, and I almost dropped to the floor with embarrassment.

It gave me a whole newfound respect for those of my friends who never messed up once- not even when I had just started out... asking to be called "Jenny" and totally dude-ing it up. That must have been hard

[suzifrommd]

Gender is very basic in the human brain. It takes a long time for people to be comfortable with the fact that your gender is changed.

As long as they correct themselves, I'm fine with it. If not, I'll correct them gently and politely. Only if they get defensive will I put up any kind of a fuss.

Though, I need to say that I misgender myself more often than everyone else put together.

[alabamagirl]

To my knowledge, I've never misgendered another trans person, but I may be a special case, as I'm very OCD about using the correct pronouns. I imagine that there could be all sorts of reasons why someone would accidentally let slip the wrong pronouns. Maybe it's like Carrie said, and it's hard for them because they knew you before, or maybe it's nothing more than a habit they're having trouble breaking. I know one thing for sure, there's no way anyone is looking at you and thinking you're male. You exemplify successful transition in my eyes, Grace.

I can relate to misgendering in a way, though. When I first joined this forum, it was extraordinarily difficult for me to refer to non-binary people as "they," "them," etc. Never in my entire life had I referred to anyone this way, and it was literally impossible for me to use "they" in the first draft of my messages. I subconsciously substituted "him" or "her" depending on whether I viewed them as more masculine or feminine, and I had to go through each message to edit that to "them" every time. I've finally gotten the hang of it, I think, but it took quite a long time for me.

[zog]

I slip up every now and then as well. I've actually done it twice in the past week, actually, and feel very embarrassed about it. But then again, I misgender myself in my head several times a day and even used my old name by accident when I called to get a face laser appointment from the trans clinic. It's a new thing for me since I'm very early in transition and the person I misgendered I've known as a cis person for many years before. I'm not making excuses, but it takes time for these things to sink in and really take hold in the language and expressions in my head. That's why I'm still misgendering myself in my thoughts and using my old name. It's not that I'm not sure about where I'm going and what I truly am, it's just that I had almost 30 years to get used to the old paradigm and less than four months of really concrete change with a new legal name and HRT.

I don't usually mind a casual misgendering if it's done without any malice, since I can totally understand how and why it happens. Then again, if someone does it in purpose to insult or belittle me, then it's a different story. And I'll probably start to be more trigger happy about correcting even the casual slips as years drag on and as I feel that people should get used to it. At this point I've been more annoyed by people using my old name since I feel that some people aren't putting any effort into learning the new one.

[Tori]

I just all kinds of love the direction this forum is taking...

Great topic.

[Jenna Marie]

Yeah, my wife [I asked her b/c she slipped up this exact way once or twice early on] says it's like speaking a second language in a more concrete way - that the brain is trained by years of habit to use a certain word for someone, and it's not a conscious gendering decision anymore. It's more like memorizing that when you think "rain," you say "lluvia," which is not meant to imply that you believe the English word is *more* valid or "rain-ier"... it's just the first word your brain wants to apply to that falling water outside. Heck, my wife at least had to train herself so hard not to use "he" for "people she had previously considered as male so her brain defaulted to it" so hard that she started occasionally calling cis men "she" instead. Which does suggest that it was NOT a gendering thing going on, but purely habit.

Personally, I think it's also harder for older people to learn new things, period.

[Ms Grace]

It's like their basic gender imprint of me is still set to "male". That's how they first knew me and, maybe at some level always will. New people at work who never knew dude-me have no trouble seeing me as female and have said they can't even imagine me as a man.

This is the issue I have with my trans guy friend. I met him in girl-mode and knew him for about three or four years as a female. My basic imprint of him appears to still be set to "female" and despite an active effort by myself to reset it to male it always reverts to "default" when I haven't seen him for a few months. Maybe there isn't enough reinforcement. At least my colleagues get to see me daily and regularly so that should help, but I wonder if it has changed anything at that basic gender imprint level. When I get referred to as a "he" when I'm in a dress, even though it's by accident and even though immediately corrected with much apologising, it's remarkably humiliating. They wouldn't call a cis woman "he" so at some level they must still see me as a dude in a dress. Not great for self esteem.

Thing is, I have met a number of ladies from this forum in person - some of them haven't fully transitioned and I may have only ever met them in guy mode but I have zero problem referring to them as "she". To me I have met a woman, that is the gender imprint I have, doesn't matter what mode they are presenting as.

[Tori]

My dad misgenderes me all the time, and yet he protects me as his fragile little daughter.

Imprinting may be right.

20 years ago, he got a new dog and called it by the old dog's name for around three years.

His intent is innocent. If he were trying to steer me, or judge me, I would mind a LOT. He just had a boy for 37 years.

[Just Shelly]

For anyone close to you prior to your transition it will be difficult. For anyone related to you it will feel close to impossible, and its not there fault! Its human nature! My children still do more than they don't....the only time they really make a conscious effort is if they want something, or we are out in public. I once was talking to one of my children and referred to his friend (a girl) as a he....I did it intentionally, and he caught it in a second! I said now you know how I feel.

For the first year I never corrected them much, and away from home I didn't have too....they were wonderful with doing it. During the second year I started to correct them occasionally, but you would of thought it was constant, every time I mentioned something they always said "why do you always have to correct us always!" I said I wasn't, and that if I did, it would get awful tiring!

[Adam (birkin)]

There was someone I knew many years ago who I found out is trans...I still picture him being this blonde little 11 year old girl. But that's because I haven't seen him as "him" (like we haven't met in person since he transitioned) so my mind imagines "her."

Really I don't get misgendering, I just tell myself in my head what the person is and that's the pronoun I use. It feels natural to me to gender someone in their preferred way. But perhaps I'm more conscious than others. I mean, like, look at you Grace - how could someone look at you, you are clearly female, and call you a "clever boy"? It's weird and creepy lol.

[David27]

The way my mom described it was: she would like to be called male name. This makes it hard to gender correctly at times because this is how she thought of it and I guessing most people do. She is working on the pronouns.

I however, use old name is now going by new name and they prefer blank pronouns. It really helps me not mess up peoples pronouns and names.

[Juliett]

When it's intentional, you don't fit into their narrow little view of reality and thus they feel compelled to deny your existence.

When it's an accident, it is simply that the human brain, for all its complexity, is lazy and incompetent.

Our brains have to remember a lot of crap and make a mind boggling number of calculations every second.

At any given moment your brain is handling your nervous and immune systems, keeping your heart pumping, regulating your breathing, processing and cataloging everything that you see, hear, taste,  touch, and smell.
And all of that is before you add conscious layers like what's gonna happen later in the day and any task in front of you.

Out of pure necessity, our brains are programmed to take any and every shortcut it can find.
You meet someone and your brain tags them with all relevant information and doesn't give it another thought.

[Ms Grace]

When people do misgender or misname me I just ask "who?", means they have to correct themselves and by using the right word/name it will hopefully rewrite the neural pathways.

I mean, like, look at you Grace - how could someone look at you, you are clearly female, and call you a "clever boy"? It's weird and creepy lol.

I know, right?