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Cycling Hormones to Control Gender Dysphoria

Started by tatiana, August 17, 2014, 12:02:05 AM

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tatiana

I currently present as male and I have no intention to transition, but as a coping mechanism to control the gender dysphoria, I have been taking hormones/blockers with the supervision of my doctors. My endocrinologist, who is one of the leading endocrinologists in this field,  has told me that there is no body of evidence or research to indicate completely cycling on-and-off the HRT regiment would be detrimental to my health. He has told me that there should not be any issues and has let me largely take the lead on what I want. My psychiatrist also indicated that he does not have an issue with the cycling to cope. Therefore, since January 2010, I have been cycling on-and-off HRT. I have had no health issues. I have no issue presenting as male.

To be more specific, I would take the HRT medication (hormones and blockers) for several weeks and go off it for several weeks. I'd go back on the HRT when the gender dysphoria would be close to overwhelming. Some ill-informed health care professionals have been against this method of coping with gender dysphoria because it goes against the traditional route of "treating" gender dysphoria, which is essentially transitioning.

For personal reasons, I know I will never be able to transition. The question is... has anyone else used this method to control and cope with their gender dysphoria? Would anyone want to have GRS while presenting in your original gender?
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AnonyMs

I've no idea if its safe or not, but I started and stopped a few times in the early years and found it very unpleasant. Stopping made all the feelings I had before starting come back even worse. I've found HRT to be a one way trip. Have you tried stopping yet?

Low dose has worked for a long time, but no longer. I eventually became very depressed, and after upping my dose to a more normal level I'm feeling pretty good again. It's at a transitioning level though, and I really don't want to actually transition at the moment. There's not a lot of choice, and I'll just try to manage somehow. I would have GRS while presenting male (I'm mtf), if only to buy some time.
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tatiana

Yeah, at times I have stopped for several months. I don't find the dysphoria too discomforting knowing that it's temporary and I have control when I can restart the HRT again. When I do start up again, it is at the transitioning level of dosage. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who would use GRS to cope with the situation while wanting to present male.
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Satinjoy

I did temporary start/ stops because I somehow was able to finangle getting estradiol, took it, then stopped and waited for my approval letter.  That was really hard to do.  It also spoiled the launch for me.  My first dose, even with that, was unforgettable, I felt the fat cells fire in the female places and saw the colors come in, and was amazed.

It's the opposite for me, my dysphoria is handled with the hormones, with mild irritation at having that thing between my legs that I keep because it is relationally important, but the hormones are key.   Never heard of the cyling option, but the bottom line here is - at least to me - gender dyphoria is an emotional and mental roller coaster and if you find something that works for you, by all means, run with it and say Thank God for a solution.

Doesn't matter what it is.  Aisla uses the physical for their comfort levels, and uses hormones much differently from me.  It is a very individual choice, and all choices are valid if they do not cause self harm or harm to others, and are authentic to the core of who you are.

Blessings.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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Jessica Merriman

Quote from: tatiana on August 17, 2014, 12:02:05 AM
. I'd go back on the HRT when the gender dysphoria would be close to overwhelming.
Why in the world would you stop a proven way to control Dysphoria in the first place? You wait until the Dysphoria gets close to overwhelming and then start again. This does not compute to me. Why would you want to cycle from relief to Dysphoria and repeat this cycle?   ???
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luna nyan

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 18, 2014, 04:02:15 PM
Why in the world would you stop a proven way to control Dysphoria in the first place? You wait until the Dysphoria gets close to overwhelming and then start again. This does not compute to me. Why would you want to cycle from relief to Dysphoria and repeat this cycle?   ???
Symptomatic relief only.  This possibly minimises any feminisation, depending on how frequently the bouts occur, and how long the HRT has to be taken for before dysphoria subsides.  Think of dysphoria as a migraine - you only ever take the heavy analgesics for migraines when they hit...

I can't really comment on whether it would work out - it's not something I've read much on, but it definitely is an interesting approach.  Personally low dose has worked for me, but some feminisation has occurred.

If I hadn't made certain life decisions, grs without social transition was a possibility for me.
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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ativan

I stay pretty steady with the low dose of Spiro, it stopped the noise enough for me, keeping the dysphoria away for the most part.
Taking E has been different in how it makes me feel, which is smooth, the only way I can describe it.
I do back down from it at times, it doesn't bother me much, but I think it does affect the way I think.
When I haven't used it, a person close to me can tell and sometimes asks...
I've also increased the dose to a much higher level, but the effects didn't become more.
Since the 'smoothness' didn't increase by much, I stopped that and went back to my low dose.
I prefer it, but forget sometimes. There are times though that a small increase did have a short term effect.
Sometimes the tenderness of my nipples becomes a little much, like pin pricks, so I back off for a short time.
I think taking a steady low dose makes more sense, but I can just as easily see stopping and starting.
That would be up to the individual to see which way works best. I see no reason not to, unless there are drastic mood swings.
But even then, if you can deal with them, it works for you...
Stopping and starting would make a bigger difference in controlling dysphoria as opposed to just stopping it and not knowing if you could deal with it at some level, and controlling when you need to.
I think it would be a way of keeping feminizing at a minimum or even none at all.
I notice that difference very much when stopping and starting the E. Haven't tried stopping the Spiro, I don't want that noise back.
Time will tell if the need to take higher doses to keep the same effect.
Ativan
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tatiana

Quote from: luna nyan on August 18, 2014, 04:18:49 PM
Symptomatic relief only.  This possibly minimises any feminisation, depending on how frequently the bouts occur, and how long the HRT has to be taken for before dysphoria subsides.  Think of dysphoria as a migraine - you only ever take the heavy analgesics for migraines when they hit...

Wow, you hit the nail right on! I see gender dysphoria as a mental condition (not a disorder) that requires some medication time to time. When it bothers you, you take some medication for a while and you go off it when you are level again. The testosterone doesn't come back in full force for several weeks. Also, I have found that residual levels of estrogen in the body remains after you stop taking estrogen. At 5 weeks of stopping HRT, substantial estrogen was still in my system when I got my bloodwork once - I was surprised.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 18, 2014, 08:15:12 PM
That would be up to the individual to see which way works best. I see no reason not to, unless there are drastic mood swings.
But even then, if you can deal with them, it works for you...
Stopping and starting would make a bigger difference in controlling dysphoria as opposed to just stopping it and not knowing if you could deal with it at some level, and controlling when you need to.
I think it would be a way of keeping feminizing at a minimum or even none at all.

I agree with this. It really depends on the individuals and the circumstances of each case. I have had plenty of counseling, which has made a huge difference in life. I am fairly good at emotional regulation so I don't experience drastic mood swings. May help that I am a thinker not a feeler on the Myers-Brigg test. Also, I have worked hard on developing good coping skills and mastering daily tasks in life. I am very organized, efficient, and systematic in how I approach tasks in life so I keep drama and unexpected things to a minimum.

In terms of feminization, my face turns a bit androgynous if I remain on HRT for a while so by going off it, it reverts back to more of masculine face to allow for me to give off the proper male gender vibe. As for my body, I'm relatively skinny and I have a very wide chest so my breast development isn't visibly too noticeable. If you want minimal breast development, just lay off the progesterone. My body has more of a feminine fat distribution, but I have a very masculine frame which overrides everything. If I remain off HRT for a while, my body reverts back to more of a masculine fat distribution and my breasts do deflate to a point.

In theory cycling on-and-off could be a way of minimizing the effects of HRT. To be frank, I am not advocating cycling on-and-off because you would probably need strong coping skills just in case the gender dysphoria hits you hard when you're off HRT. My intention of starting this topic was to figure out whether or not anyone else was in the same boat as me.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 18, 2014, 08:15:12 PM
I stay pretty steady with the low dose of Spiro, it stopped the noise enough for me, keeping the dysphoria away for the most part.
Taking E has been different in how it makes me feel, which is smooth, the only way I can describe it.
I do back down from it at times, it doesn't bother me much, but I think it does affect the way I think.
When I haven't used it, a person close to me can tell and sometimes asks...

If Spiro works for you, great. I think you've found what works for you. Estrogen does make the skin softer and you do become more sensitive to touch. It's interesting how people who are close to you can tell whether you're on or off the hormones. If the person is very perceptive, they can tell when you're on or off the hormones.
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Jessica Merriman

Quote from: tatiana on August 18, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
I see gender dysphoria as a mental condition (not a disorder) that requires some medication time to time.
Just a caution, but some if not most will take exception to this. Gender Dysphoria is not listed in the DMS as a mental disorder. You may get some blow back for this.  :)
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Miss_Bungle1991

Yeah, certainly don't see it as a mental disorder. I also wouldn't call taking estrogen every morning as something that is taken "from time to time."
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luna nyan

She states it as a mental condition, not a disorder.  Along the lines of a hormonal issue in the mind for her - hit it with enough estrogen, she is fine for a while...

There was some anecdotal work done by Anne Vitale along these lines... (Needs controlled study...)
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: luna nyan on August 18, 2014, 11:36:48 PM
She states it as a mental condition, not a disorder. 

It means basically the same thing.
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tatiana

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 18, 2014, 11:18:11 PM
Just a caution, but some if not most will take exception to this. Gender Dysphoria is not listed in the DMS as a mental disorder. You may get some blow back for this.  :)

Hahaha. You were right. I know GD is not listed a mental disorder. I would have used GID, the old terminology, if I thought it was a disorder. Also, if people want to actually criticize me for the wording when I made it clear I did not mean it was a disorder, what can I do about it? How has anyone so far in this post offered to correct me on it? So when it is alright to criticize someone, but not teach the person what is the correct terminology.

If I have a brain that is wired like a female, what would you call it?
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Taka

i'd say you have a medical condition that needs medication from time to time, but not constantly. in others, the condition can be so severe that constant medication is required. there are quite a lot of chronic conditions that require very different levels or types of medication from patient to patient in order to live fairly comfortably, while it still is possible to survive even without medication. i have a feeling that many who say they got into a do or die situation might have thought a little differently if treatment didn't exist at all, but it's pointless to speculate about things that aren't the case.
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ativan

The only way that I know of explaining dysphoria is to relate it to being somewhat like depression, but it is different from that..
There is a similarity in how you treat it though.
Depression is one of those things that you don't understand unless you have gone through a clinical depression, not just having a depressing time for a reason.
Dysphoria can be very similar in that same way. There is a level that you logically can't deal with it, it effects your thinking, your quality of life.
For depression there are a number of anti-depressants and it sometimes takes a while to find the one that works.
There are many people who, over time, beat the clinical depression and continue on, having a quality life.
The same could be said for dysphoria.
If anyone doubts that it is different for each person, then you really don't have a handle on it, just like a lot of people don't have about depression.
I've even heard the same 'get over it' kinds of advice, which isn't advice at all, but a slap in the face to the person experiencing it.
There are to many variables, and it is a condition of the mind. In severe cases it could be viewed as a disorder, yet it isn't classified as one.
The same is true of many case of depression, when severe, it is clinical and can become a disorder.
Neither are treated as such, they are treated in the ways that work for each person.

This is the reality of it...
There isn't a single one of you who can say yours or anyone else's dysphoria is the same as everyone elses and therefore you simply take this med once or twice a day and that's all there is to it.
It's a different regime for each person and the more we understand it, the more different ways we find to combat it.
Here is the truth of both depression and dysphoria:
They both can easily lead to suicide if untreated, and still can while being treated.
To say it is just a thing to get over is ignorant of it's variable effects that it has.
The treatments can be similar, but finding the right dose of what works is going to be different for each individual.
In both cases, dysphoria and/or depression (because they can occur together) the options of treatment varies.
To blindly think that taking one med at whatever dose is going to be correct is to not understand just how either or both are being treated.
It isn't respectful to tell someone how to step through life when you haven't walked that path yourself, or believe that there is one path and one only.

To argue the point over the way a sentence is structured is kinda lame, when the intent is obvious.
If you can't understand that or wish to pick the wording apart, again, it comes down to a matter of respect.
The only blow-back I see is that lack of respect, something that is strived for in this section, by the Non-binary people here.

Life is different for many, there isn't a single well worn path that we use, there are many.
We understand those well worn paths and use them with respect for the very reasons they are well worn.
It's a matter of respect when it comes to the less traveled paths that non-binaries use.
It would be nice if we had the more traveled paths to walk on as well, but we know this just isn't the truth for us and accept it.
To not accept it as the truth and to deny that that is the truth is very disrespectful of others thoughts and lives as they choose to live them.
There isn't a choice, it is who we are, but we can choose how we deal with that truth.
That is the beauty of the forest, a term brought back to this section.

We celebrate our diversity and learn from it,.. more and more people from younger generations are coming here.
They need up to date and current information, not uninformed opinions from those who haven't walked these paths.
The road less traveled. You don't know what is on those roads unless you have traveled them yourself.
And there are a countless number of them here. A chance to see those things of a beautiful life.

Think about it before you criticize anyone's passing along the information that is our maps, they way we move through life.
The roads less traveled can be many things and we learn a lot about ourselves by discussing this information.
Not by denying that it is another possibility and to be aware of the positives and the negatives of how we move through a different life.
Please don't push your life's experience of a well worn path onto those who take the roads less traveled.
It lacks respect, it shows a limited thinking, something we don't do here, limit our possibilities, there is always a way to move forward.
Think instead of just how hard it can be to move past dysphoria, especially if it's one that you yourself haven't experienced as others have.
Just because something worked for one person, means very little when there are so many ways that it can be dealt with.
And in finding those ways that work, we just might prevent another suicide, something we are all too aware of, that is too high among trans people.
Ativan
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mrs izzy

Going to be the last i will say this.

There has been actions taken in this thread to keep it civil and on track.

Please keep comments to the OP original post.

Everyone here has a opinion based on there own experiences.

Not to say they are right or wrong and that is up to the reader to figure out if it can apply.

As part of the TOS please respect this part of the section.

If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion. If you feel a person's post violates the rules of this site use the report this post function.

Now return to scheduled OPs post.

Thanks
Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
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EllieM

My endo gave me some specific dosing instructions, then proceeded to tell me what dosages I could safely mess with and how much I could experiment.  I did take a run at cycling, but found no advantage there, so I'm back on the regimen he originally outlined for me. I found that so far, for me, that works the best. As for dysphoria, it still creeps in from time to time, but thankfully, the HRT has taken most of the edge off.
I do not present as female in public. Would I want to continue presenting as male, post reassignment surgery? Heck no! I so want my outside to look like my virtual inside, you know what I mean? While I see Ellie in the mirror more often these days, it's "that guy" who usually shows up, bloody mirror hog! Correcting that is a step forward in healing, hopefully, one day I'll get there.
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Kaelin

To answer the original post... a little bit... sort of.  I'm not exactly sure I identify as my "original" gender, but I'm fairly convinced I'm not the "other" gender.  I'm finding a place and body where I feel at home.

I wouldn't say I'm cycling, because I'm aiming for a sweet spot, but I'm open to the possibility that there can be an up and down.  That said, I try to use smaller adjustments, because I don't myself responding to daily events and misreading what are natural ups-and-downs.  A consistent low/low-ish level, even if it wobbles a bit, helps keep me distinguish feelings about who I am from feelings about what's going on around me.
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AnonyMs

If found stopping estrogen reversed the changes in my face, which were starting to be rather noticeable. Short hair and light beard (use a stubble trimmer) hides it completely though, I just have to avoid mirrors. Body shape has not been an issue, at least wearing loose clothes, and does reverse as well. For better and worse breasts don't reverse, although its amazing what you can hide, and what people don't notice (facial hair really helps with that). I'm coping quite well with this at the moment, although I'm not overly confident I can continue with this long term.

Ativan Prescibed, great post.
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