Informed consent pros/cons vs WPATH/Harry Benjamin Stndrds

[FriendsCallMeChris]

I'm thinking Informed Consent w/ therapy on the side.  Does anyone have any pros/cons on going this way vs. WPATH/Harry Benjamin Stndrds.

I'm 52 (one of the older ones  ) and have a professional career that I'm in the middle of job hunt/change where I need my licenses and credentials.  At this point, I'm going to wait until the job situation is settled before T.  In the mean time, I'd like to consider low dose T, but I don't know what changes are going to happen and how fast ie voice change, facial changes, hair growth pattern (yeeps!) so I'm being cautious w/ no physical changes yet.
And I def. don't pass right now.  No way, no how  .   Too hippy and chesty to even go for it.

All advice and personal experience appreciated.

Chris

[CursedFireDean]

1. WPATH actually does list informed consent as an acceptable way to get on hormones, therapy is no longer required by them.
2. In regards to your actual question, informed consent can be right for some people but not others. For example, I have been to gender therapists and I know that T is what I want, however I am technically going with informed consent for T since it is cheaper and easier than trying to get back in contact with my past therapists for a letter to an endo with a long wait. Instead I'm going to a clinic who generally has appointments open within the next few days. For people who are sure T is what they need, informed consent is a very good method for getting T because it also saves money. However I do think that most people should have at least a little therapy before they go on T. Most, not all. If you have any doubts or concerns at all, I'd suggest seeing a therapist first, even if not for long. A therapist can help with all sorts of concerns and help you plan your ideal timeline of events like how T will fit in with jobs and such. So even if you are sure you want T, if you have the money, a therapist can definitely still be good.

[SWNID]

I started therapy first, and scheduled to see a doctor at the same time. But I was my therapist's first trans patient and he was being too cautious/ indecisive to give me the letter. My doctor had been talking to my therapist since my first visit. After 2 months, she felt she could not see me suffer anymore and gave me the T through informed consent on my 3rd visit to her.

[aleon515]

I was in therapy for about 11 months before I got on T. I believe that my doctor who prescribed the T actually did an informal type of informed consent. I think therapy can be a good thing, but I am not for the old gatekeeping concept. I think an honest discussion with a therapist is wonderful, if you can have that, which I could.

In most cases, informed consent will let you know of what the various effects of hormones are. The point is being "informed". Some places have forms where you basically say everything you are okay with.

Haha older guy here too.

--Jay

[janetcgtv]

I'm for WPATH.

I don't like hearing about those that transitioned without guidance who later regretted having surgery.. Because of this the Christians use this that it is wrong and will still be against surgery. Most are happy of having had surgery or transitioned.

[aross1015]

I'm for WPATH.

I don't like hearing about those that transitioned without guidance who later regretted having surgery.. Because of this the Christians use this that it is wrong and will still be against surgery. Most are happy of having had surgery or transitioned.

You mean some Christians.  Transhobia isn't limited to a certain religion or faith, nor does one person of said faith being transphobic mean all members of that faith are.

[Blue Senpai]

I'm going informed consent but I don't support everyone taking advantage of it if there is even slight uncertainty because this isn't something you can turn back from. Once you take that first shot, you're beyond the point of no return so that's why it's important to either settle matters with a gender therapist before decising or be 110% sure you want to do this while in good mental and physical health.

While I'm going the opposite way, I'm all for WPATH.

[Kassie]

I went informed consent to start E and Spiro  because I know my body better than a lot of doctors and due to my location and already having low T 

[Kreuzfidel]

While part of my thinks that people need to be allowed to choose and make their own mistakes if that's what it is - I can see why it's important to encourage some, especially young teens, to seek a professional opinion and to be compassionately supported by a mental health practitioner through the process of self-discovery. 

That being said, there are some cases where others don't just "wake up and realise they're trans*" one day and have known for many, many years.  I think that the evaluation of whether or not someone needs medical intervention should most definitely be on a case-by-case basis without making therapy compulsory for all.

[campenella]

I think informed consent along with optional resources is the best. I got on informed consent and WPATH would have made me hesitate honestly and held me back from actually going through with transitioning. I would have second guessed myself and stopped transitioning. Being able to immediately go on T saved me, but I'm searching really hard for a therapist now that I'm in the thick of things. I do think it should be a therapist appointment to see where your mind is at before they give you informed consent so that you know the risks and know exactly what you want, and a support system in place in case things go sideways.

[aleon515]

Young teens can't make "informed consent", you need to be at least 18. It's a legal necessity for being the age of consent. Though I think parents can't make the informed consent for them.

Having therapy doesn't prevent people from "making mistakes". In fact, one could argue that the whole gatekeeper system has caused more harm than good, creating fake relationships with therapists for the sole purpose to trying to get consent. I think informed consent may actually save lives, keeping people in the "medical system" where they get appropriate medical treatment, and allowing people to have real relationships with therapists where there is no agendas. I don't know how many problems I have read of therapists who prevented people from going on hormones for years and years or made them jump thru inappropriate hurdles or just had no knowledge of gender issues.


--Jay

While part of my thinks that people need to be allowed to choose and make their own mistakes if that's what it is - I can see why it's important to encourage some, especially young teens, to seek a professional opinion and to be compassionately supported by a mental health practitioner through the process of self-discovery. 

That being said, there are some cases where others don't just "wake up and realise they're trans*" one day and have known for many, many years.  I think that the evaluation of whether or not someone needs medical intervention should most definitely be on a case-by-case basis without making therapy compulsory for all.

[Taka]

i have also heard of therapists and doctors in a set system that not only gatekeep, but also make wrong decisions for their patients and talk them onto thing that they're either not ready for, or shouldn't have at all. there is just as much regret among people who have managed to lie themselves through a strict gatekeeping institution. if you know you need hrt, but can only get it by agreeing to a precalculated process that ends with srs, what can you do?

gatekeepers are dangerous, not only because they don't take in all who need help, but also because they have odd misconceptions about what kind of help a rather varied group of people need. some gatekeepers might manage to talk a patient into going the whole route when that's not what they need at all.

[Nygeel]

I think some WPATH standards aren't right. If a trans woman wants breast implants she has to wait until over a year on hormones. I understand the logic behind that but it shouldn't be a standard.

[FriendsCallMeChris]

Glad to know that WPATH is now okay w/ informed consent. That may make my search for a consenting doctor easier to find--and a therapist who doesn't expect all the Harry Benjamin steps.  Living stealth as a guy for a year, pre-T, would be pretty unbelievable physically and career-wise, not too smart, either. and mentally, it would hurt like hell.  Too much victor/victoria-a reminder every second of the day that I'm not where I need to be when I know I don't come close to passing.  From where I am right now, for me, that seems just another layer of pretending on top of pretending. 

Now, do I search for a therapist in my uber-conservative town or wait for the job move so I don't have to severe/build that relationship anew?

[JourneyFromConfusion]

Why do people automatically assume that people who detransition went informed consent? I'm actually finding the opposite. I see people say that the "system" just wants to screw them to make them men (From detransitioned FTMs), that's why they got the diagnosis they did. With that said, a doctor diagnosing you doesn't stop you from detransitioning later just as going informed consent doesn't mean you'll regret it. Regardless of which path, the most important thing is INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. It's up to you to sit down and analyze your motive behind taking testosterone. Like someone else said, living as the opposite gender is not always physically or mentally plausible. Though I've passed for years, I would feel very unsafe if I were forced to live as a male before starting T.

Also, your first shot is not the point of no return. If someone takes their first T shot or 2 and decides it was a wrong decision (Something THEY, not other trans people decide), then they can stop with little consequences. Regardless of what path you take, you should find a therapist who will help you see who you truly are because there are many people who will list requirements (not necessarily medical) that you need to be part of their community. It's about learning and being comfortable as you.

[aleon515]

Here here Journey!!

Yes, I agree there is a kind of tone that I see sometimes that says that we, as trans people, are somehow unable or incompetent to make a serious decision, and we need a paternalistic system to keep us from "making mistakes". I believe this is a kind of insulting idea about trans people that may be internalized transphobia.

Why can *other* people, like terminal cancer patients, people going to plastic surgery, people deciding to marry, married couples seeking families, etc etc. make serious and potentially ilfe altering (even in some cases life threatening) decisions? But trans people are unable to make these same sorts of decisions? I think there is a dignity in risk that we can make decisions about our own lives.

I believe actually that VERY few people who detransition went thru informed consent. First of all, it wasn't at all part of the system until very lately. So most people went thru the gatekeeping system up til the last few years.
I also agree that a few shots aren't don't make you an impossibly masculine (or feminine) looking person who has no way of sizing up their decision.

Yes people make mistakes, but isn't that like life? People make mistakes all thru life. They go the wrong way and so on. Why do we need some system to keep us from making them.  I think that therapy is a good and helpful thing, but not to keep people from making mistakes. In fact, therapists are human and fallible and make lots of mistakes too. I'd rather make my own decisions, thank you very much.

Rant over, sorry but that felt kind of good!! LOL. But it's something I feel strongly about.

--Jay

Why do people automatically assume that people who detransition went informed consent? I'm actually finding the opposite. I see people say that the "system" just wants to screw them to make them men (From detransitioned FTMs), that's why they got the diagnosis they did. With that said, a doctor diagnosing you doesn't stop you from detransitioning later just as going informed consent doesn't mean you'll regret it. Regardless of which path, the most important thing is INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. It's up to you to sit down and analyze your motive behind taking testosterone. Like someone else said, living as the opposite gender is not always physically or mentally plausible. Though I've passed for years, I would feel very unsafe if I were forced to live as a male before starting T.

Also, your first shot is not the point of no return. If someone takes their first T shot or 2 and decides it was a wrong decision (Something THEY, not other trans people decide), then they can stop with little consequences. Regardless of what path you take, you should find a therapist who will help you see who you truly are because there are many people who will list requirements (not necessarily medical) that you need to be part of their community. It's about learning and being comfortable as you.