Why TS's say that those with a choice aren't really TS

[Rachael]

imo, transition is a choice, you decide when you do it. i mean, people have said hey have felt the need to in thier teens, but only been able to when they were older, or when they found out. so following that logic, if you state you knew and waited, then there IS a choice...
R

[Melissa]

Why? Is it really that awful?

IMO, living as female in and of itself is not awful.  In fact, I can't think of anything better.   However, being that you are not a GG is what makes it so much harder.  The transition itself and the losses you suffer during it can be too much for even the strongest person.  Many people have to relearn socialization from a female perspective (often without any guidance) in a very short time.  It costs a ton of money do successfully transition (and mine has been relatively cheap).  Oh and let's not forget physical pain that will be endured such as electrolysis/laser and healing from surgery.  Coming out on the job can be quite risky too.  What about the time lost when having SRS and healing?  Once you are done with the transition, the fun doesn't stop there.  Did you know that you are supposed to dilate for the rest of your life?  What about continuing hormones the rest of your life or going off of them and experiencing menopause?

After transition, you have issues to cope with that you have never had to (and this is assuming you pass perfectly).  Such as explaining to people why you are unable to have children (or pretending to know what childbirth feels like without ever having experienced it if you do have kids like I do).  You have oh so many records that needs to be changed once you legally change your name.  Your previous name will come up on job searches and if somebody has a bias against you (or TS in general), they will disqualify you immediately for some "other reason", so you effectively limit the number of jobs you can ever apply to.  You will have to work hard on your voice and it will never come naturally like it does to a GG.  If you are trying to hide your past, you would have a an noticeable lack of childhood photos.  What if you want to have a relationship with somebody?  Coming out to a partner can be scary and you risk throwing away the entire relationship.  There are some accepting people still, but the choices are much more limited.  What if you are pre-op out and about and find yourself becoming a rape victim?  What will happen to you when the rapist discovers that you have different genitalia than he was expecting?

As you can see, it doesn't look so bad on the surface, but if you REALLY look at what you are getting yourself into, you can see that there is a lot more costs hidden in the fine print.

[Rachael]

i must admit, im getting to the stage where im wanting to get intimate with a guy i like, and i cant, because he doesnt know, and im afraid to tell him, its heartwrenching....
but your right mel, its a choice, its just a rathr difficult one to decide more than one way

[melissa90299]

If you take a strict literal view, everything is a choice, but it should be easily understood, at least I thought it should have been, that those on the "no choice" side are speaking metaphorically. Otherwise, we would be expecting people to believe that people are holding our mouths open and forcing premarin down our throats or kidnapping us and performing BAs and SRS on us without our consent.

Some level of comprehension was assumed by me that isn't there.

Posted on: August 09, 2007, 05:05:43 PMMelissa 1 makes some good points, I have had four surgeries now, the surgeries themselves aren't that big a deal but the recovery is, in the case of SRS, my surgeon recommends that one take off 8 weeks after surgery, that is nearly three months altogether! Luckily, I have a great disability plan. Most people don't. In fact, I doubt whether or not most people would even be allowed to take that much time off and still have their job.

[tinkerbell]

Tink, I know you watched Taboo last night, I forget who it was that said "It was not a choice!" This is the one clear mindset that separates the women from those who might have something else going on.

It was Dr. Marci Bowers who said that. 

"The Body is a fluid vehicle for the Soul.

Transition is just a catalyst for

spiritual emergence." 

Marci L. Bowers, M.D.

tink

[TheBattler]

So if you are not prepared to make every sacrifice, if you are not prepared to lose everything, if you think you can choose something else to help you get by, do that instead! Do not transition!

Can someone point me to some information that tells me how I can live as a happy male?

It seams my option are to live as a happy TG person (something I am trying), transistion or the other unthinkable option. No-one has told me how to be a happy male and I am affraid that I sometimes find it hard to live as a cross dresser. What should I do given I have not done anything to transistion. I wish I had a choice but in the end I may only have the 'choices' everyone else had found.

Alice

[Kimberly]

Can someone point me to some information that tells me how I can live as a happy male?

Um, well I do not know of anything of the nature personally; I do not believe I really had that option; I could have contained as a male and been miserable but really once I figured out what was hurting so much ... ^*shrug*

I think the end result is that you will have to listen to yourself to find what path you should take; I really do not think which exact path matters all that much as long as it is the correct one for you. An be mindful that people relate to things differently; Any such 'how to live happily as a male' guide is unlikely to work when, such as my case, one isn't male.

I think the short form is hang on an go with the flow, just don't close your eyes...

^*HUG*

[Robyn]

Can someone point me to some information that tells me how I can live as a happy male?

It seams my option are to live as a happy TG person (something I am trying), transistion or the other unthinkable option. No-one has told me how to be a happy male and I am affraid that I sometimes find it hard to live as a cross dresser. What should I do given I have not done anything to transistion. I wish I had a choice but in the end I may only have the 'choices' everyone else had found.

Alice

That's where gender counselors are supposed to help.  Not to tell you what to do but to help you decide for yourself.

And always listen to that still, quiet voice within, which is your spiritual connection speaking truth.

Decisions come easier to some and harder to others.  Frequent meditation should help.

Best wishes to all are our equally valid journies.

Robyn

[NicholeW.]

I can only speak for myself. Goddess, that is sometimes hard enough to get right and be understood. I cannot imagine trying to speak for anyone else and getting that right!

In the Dao de Xing there is a saying:

Everyone speaks the truth; you must learn to hear the truth they are speaking.

In our arguments it seems like sometimes we forget to listen for the truth being spoken by the other writers.

Yes, I have lost a 17 year relationship. I have lost my family, except for my sons, who like their other mom (me) better, they say, than they ever liked their dad. I lost a job. 

I probably could have soldiered on. Would I have committed suicide? How would I know. When I made the decision, the first one, to pursue transition I was not on the verge of killing myself.

I got to that place, once, after I had been on hrt for a year. The medical doctor and the psych both thought that may well have been due to T having a lessening effect on my depression when I had male levels. When the T was down to low female levels, the prophylactic was gone as well. I went through my only clinical depression. But, statistically speaking, clinical depressions are more frequently visited on women.

Has transition made me happy? No. Has life made me happy? No. But, I am content.

I struggle with things other women who are raising their children alone struggle with: money, jobs, school, food, car repairs, etc.

On T boards I have been on in the past I have read many women write about how miserable their lives are, but also that they did not have a choice except to transition or die. None of us have choice in dying, only the choice of when.

It seems to me that what some of us may do is to disregard the fact that we also have a choice to live. A life like any other man or woman: full of uncomfortable events and full of events that take my breath away with the beauty and poignancy of their occurrence.

My happiness, or contentment, cannot, imo, rely on the good graces of others. Nor can it rely on the possibility that life might be around simply so that all the things I imagine that would make my life perfect will flow to me.

What I do know, is that I lead a life like any other woman might lead hers. With that I am content. Often I am happy.

My life and my experiences cannot possibly speak good or ill of the lives of any one else. Their lives I allow to do that.

Transition? For me, yes! The best choice I could have possibly made. I can be Nichole and live with myself comfortably. I could not do that being him.   

So, for me transitioning was the absolute right choice. If someone else were to ask me to give her or him advice about transitioning, I could only tell them to do what I have done: Follow the deepest voice of your own heart. And make sure that you listen to it.

[taru]

I didn't say anything at all about my transition. You are assuming things that were not said. My transition was successful beyond my wildest dreams but I never thought I had a choice. For those who think this a choice, choose wisely and err on the side of NOT transitioning and wait until you reach the point of knowing it is NOT a choice.

I don't think any of the choice people have listed living as a happy male (for mtfs) as an option.

Thus which option should we pick? Being miserable and on too many psych meds or suicide? Seems like by your logic all transpeople who view e.g. suicide as an option should rather pick it than transition to be happy.

[Sophia]

Nichole W. that was a beautiful post.

I didn't say anything at all about my transition. You are assuming things that were not said. My transition was successful beyond my wildest dreams but I never thought I had a choice. For those who think this a choice, choose wisely and err on the side of NOT transitioning and wait until you reach the point of knowing it is NOT a choice.

I don't think any of the choice people have listed living as a happy male (for mtfs) as an option.

Thus which option should we pick? Being miserable and on too many psych meds or suicide? Seems like by your logic all transpeople who view e.g. suicide as an option should rather pick it than transition to be happy.

I know I sure as hell do not consider being a "happy male" a viable option. In fact, being happy as a male is something that is impossible for me to achieve. I'm just the kind of person that tries to strip all metaphorical illusions from my life. And allowing myself to give credence to the metaphor that one difficult and harsh option versus a truly horrific and untenable option is not a choice at all is not something I do.

Its perfectly fine for others to do so, if they wish. They can use it to show how extreme the consequences are of not transitioning are represented to them. But for me, I don't do that with metaphors. I straight out tell people what my options are, Brave the difficulties of transition, be hopped up on as much anti depressants and mood adjusters as possible or kill myself. Why create a metaphor to show the harshness of the choice I have to make when I can let the options speak for themselves?

It just seems so very unnecessary to me.

And for those that think I shouldn't transition? You're way off on my mental state. My calling this a choice is not because I think I have lots of great, wonderful and viable options. Its because I don't believe in using metaphors to get a point across.

So if someone calls it a choice, their need to transition is still just as valid as yours.

If someone doesn't call it a choice, they are not invalidating the sacrifices and the responsibility you took in making your choice to transition and live.

Plain and simple. Why is it so easy for people to offend each other over things that really aren't offensive?

[Caroline]

I didn't say anything at all about my transition. You are assuming things that were not said. My transition was successful beyond my wildest dreams but I never thought I had a choice. For those who think this a choice, choose wisely and err on the side of NOT transitioning and wait until you reach the point of knowing it is NOT a choice.

This would lead a lot of people who later transition to regret not starting earlier.  Particularly younger TSs where getting on HRT/blockers early can make a big difference to their passability (and their looks).

Choice/no-choice is a mindset.  For me it would ALWAYS be a choice, even if I delayed transition till a point in the future where my options narrowed to immediate transition or immediate suicide, that would still be a choice according to my mindset.  My choice to transition was based on knowing my options would narrow to those two paths at some point in the future so I may as well start now rather than delaying and forever regretting it.

How many people on this forum wish they had seen the inevitability of their situation earlier?  I'm guessing a LOT.

[melissa90299]

Thus which option should we pick?

Why would you let others decide what course you should seek?

And for those that think I shouldn't transition? You're way off on my mental state.

Who is it that thinks you shouldn't transition?

Plain and simple. Why is it so easy for people to offend each other over things that really aren't offensive?

No one is offending you. I know it is not possible for anyone to offend me as I do not allow anyone the power to offend me anymore than I let a piece of chocolate cake force itself down my throat. You are offending yourself. It is not any more possible for someone to offend another than it is for a piece of cake to force its consumption upon you.

[Dennis]

No one is offending you. I know it is not possible for anyone to offend me as I do not allow anyone the power to offend me anymore than I let a piece of chocolate cake force itself down my throat. You are offending yourself. It is not any more possible for someone to offend another than it is for a piece of cake to force its consumption upon you.

I don't know about that. I get attacked by chocolate all the time. I find cold beer to be quite predatory on hot, sunny days too.

Dennis

[Shana A]

Many of our detractors believe that being transgender/transsexual, along with GLB, is a choice as opposed to that we're born as who we are. Also, if it were a choice, under current system it's harder to get insurance to pay for treatment. I'm guessing these could be among the reasons why those who believe that being TS isn't a choice, trying to counter these kinds of attitudes. I personally still believe it's a choice. Not one to take lightly, for some it is indeed life or death, but still a choice.

Zythyra

[Melissa]

Hmm, that makes sense Zythyra.  I think much of that attitude may stem from people's misconception that transitioning/SRS is what defines us as transsexuals, rather than the fact that we strongly identify as a different gender different than our birth sex (which means we've always been TS) being the reason for transitioning/SRS.  How do I know that's how they think?  That's what I was taught growing up and also caused was a major factor in me not addressing the way I felt.

If people are seeing transitioning as being synonymous with being TS, then the line of thought that we choose to transition can easily be translated into us choosing to be TS.  Every single transsexual knows the truth that being TS is not a choice and perhaps by saying that transitioning is not a choice, it is merely an indirect means of conveying the truth (i.e. Transitioning is not a choice, so therefore being TS is not a choice).  That makes sense to me at least.

BTW, I started this thread more to analyze why some see it as a choice and why some don't.  I think we may be making progress.

[Sophia]

Thus which option should we pick?

Why would you let others decide what course you should seek?

I think that was more a rant on people telling them that they shouldn't transition.

And for those that think I shouldn't transition? You're way off on my mental state.

Who is it that thinks you shouldn't transition?

There are a few who have implied it. And since I consider transitioning a choice (even if its a choice between transition or suicide) and numerous people have stated that if one considers transitioning a choice one ought to not transition, I'd say its safe and logical to conclude they think I ought to not transition, eh?

Plain and simple. Why is it so easy for people to offend each other over things that really aren't offensive?

No one is offending you.

You're putting words in my mouth Melissa. I never said I was offended. It just seemed to me that people were getting offended by non-offensive things.

I know it is not possible for anyone to offend me as I do not allow anyone the power to offend me anymore than I let a piece of chocolate cake force itself down my throat.

You've obviously never been attacked by chocolate cake.

You are offending yourself.

Oh am I? I must be truly and epically talented if I can do that when I'm not offended in the least. Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about what people are thinking.

[Shana A]

If people are seeing transitioning as being synonymous with being TS, then the line of thought that we choose to transition can easily be translated into us choosing to be TS.  Every single transsexual knows the truth that being TS is not a choice and perhaps by saying that transitioning is not a choice, it is merely an indirect means of conveying the truth (i.e. Transitioning is not a choice, so therefore being TS is not a choice).  That makes sense to me at least.

BTW, I started this thread more to analyze why some see it as a choice and why some don't.  I think we may be making progress.

Yes Melissa, that makes sense to me too. Thanks for starting the thread. I get tired of seeing transpeople fight amongst ourselves, but also sincerely believe it's a good thing if we all engage in honest dialog. I think we're making progress as well, I'm gaining a better understanding of how others with different viewpoints think and feel. And if we can all understand each other, we have half a chance of gaining acceptance in the world for who we are.

You've obviously never been attacked by chocolate cake.

Sophia, chocolate is indeed insidious and will stop at nothing to infiltrate 

Zythyra

[Rachael]

i remember being attacked by a victoria sponge once.... i still have the nightmares.... *shudders*

R

[Sophia]

You've obviously never been attacked by chocolate cake.

Sophia, chocolate is indeed insidious and will stop at nothing to infiltrate 

M&M's are worse. Little things come in swarms.

i remember being attacked by a victoria sponge once.... i still have the nightmares.... *shudders*

Pound cake can do a number on you. A friend of mine lost his father in Vietnam to pound cake. Little thing got on the helicopter and stuffed itself into the poor man's throat. Didn't stand a chance.