Like to have SRS before I start openly transitioning

[Monkeymel]

Thank you Genevieve - I stand corrected.

My perspective was from someone having oriechtomy without feminising hrt / transition (I know someone who had it from cancer). I agree with you that if on estrogen then it is a whole different process. I've just completed my srs and still getting used to all the new plumbing, required dilating schedules and possible infections. Bed rests, inflammation, sore muscles, still inflamed clitoral hood, daily bleeding, douching. Jumping straight to srs without being 150% sure is a massive undertaking.

[Genevieve]

@Monkeymel: You're only human like the rest of us, so you're entitled. I just felt compelled to share my thoughts & experience on the matter.

Sorry to hear about your post-surgical healing, etc... I hope it all improves before long & that you settle into a routine soon. Also: congrats on your SRS. Here's to hoping you'll be up & running in no time. :-)

[TinaVane]

Question a lil off topic is it true that every doctor want a letter before they do the orchie on you in the states ? Why I plan on going to Mexico for my orchie (plus other surgeries ) because I'm not a dan of being psychoanalyzed I been living as a woman since I changed my name in 95/96. I would do it here in the states if I don't need to go see a psyche.

[Genevieve]

Not every, but most reputable Doctors require the standard two letters of clearance from licensed professionals that would attest to the fact that the patient has undergone sufficient clinical therapy for gender dysphoria & is under an endocrinologists care for hormone replacement treatment (I underwent one session in which two doctors were present & was asked a series of basic-related questions before given approval). Not really that big of a deal & it's all pretty routine. Like SRS, Orchiectomy/Castration is, as you know, an irreversible surgical procedure & physicians want the patient to be absolutely certain & clear it's a step they're ready for, as there's no reversal once it's been done. The clearance letters also protect the doctors from a legal standpoint, which is totally understandable.

[Eva]

My thoughts are with either GCS or an orchie you are committing to a lifetime of endogenous hormone use.... With an orchie however it would still be possible to "go back"... I mean you could just take T and Id think that would restore male function, but Im no doc..... (Not that I want to even think about doing that, just saying)... With GCS while I guess you could take T if you had regrets and wanted to live as a male again that dont sound very good to me... But the fact is you need sex hormones just to maintain good health, male or female....

So really OP you are illogical here and thats a big part of why I think the GCS surgeons require at least a year on HRT, you'll be taking E for life....

As someone who's still pretty early in transition GCS seems pretty far away for me... Id have to have my hair restored for one and unfortunately for me that could take YEARS right there and it may not even be possible... The thought of wearing a wig for the rest of my life is depressing.... Id also want more time on HRT to feminize, its only been about 6 months for me.... And last Id definitely want at least a year of RLE.... I have been "full time" for 8 months now, BUT that doesnt include working a real job as a woman, thats my next step and Ive been looking.... Thats an eye opening experience right there because while I "pass" I know Im nowhere near "stealth" YET... Fortunately for me the $$$ is not a problem so its not an urgent need just something I want to do and a little extra cash cant hurt either... Also my state of birth and residence wont change the gender marker on my BC or DL without GCS but they would with an orchie, Hmn....

SO since I THINK Im YEARS away from GCS even though I have the $$$, an orchie is looking better and better to me by the day... Even though my T is cratered well to the bottom of the female range on HRT.... Id like to reduce the AA's and hopefully feminize better... I think Id also like the psychological effect mentioned of KNOWING those little poison factories are GONE for GOOD =) That right there seems huge to me and yes it would be much easier to tuck too .)

I think I will bring his up with my psych next time I see him, I could see doing this within months actually...

There have been some good points made here, I just thought Id ad mine....

[SorchaC]

Hi all, This is my first post so be nice please Having had an Orchie back in 2010 after 3 years taking hormones I felt I could comment on it's effects. An Orchie isn't a substitute for SRS all it will allow is a smaller dose of Estrogen due to there being less Testosterone, The physical appearance of the male parts are altered slightly and as people have said erections and orgasm are still similar to what was possible before although what comes out isn't anything like it was. I'm not sure my libido was altered as that had already gone due to the hormones long before the surgeon did anything. I have to say psychologically the feeling I had was well now you cannot go back (not that I would want to) I took it as am impetus to keep going and get my SRS.

As for the question of starting transition with SRS? I don't think this would be a good way to go, There are many milestones along the way and passing them helps you decide that what you are doing either is or isn't the right thing, Odd as it may seem people do back out just before the op and some even have regrets after. People also start transition and realise it isn't what they really want. The RLE isn't just there for the doctors to hold you back, It also serves to allow us time to make sure what we're doing is the right thing for us.

[Cindy]

^^^^^

This in my opinion.

I'm full time, and GCS surgery booked for next year. I still have doubts and I definitely needed RLE in order to be me.

[Cindy]

Hi SorchaC, and welcome to Susans! We have people come to visit us from all over the world, expressing different points of view, and you are likely to find someone to help you along your way Here are some important links and things to ponder as you begin your journey here.

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[Paige]

Hi Jessica,
Sorry for the slow response,  I've been a bit busy the last couple of days.

In my personal opinion it is illogical. You want to do everything in the reverse order you should for a stable and successful transition.

The surgeons I have been talking to require HRT before SRS. I believe you would be best off at this point to consult a Therapist preferably with gender experience. They can make sure that your transition goes as smooth as possible and you will have to have two letters anyway before you can get SRS. Most areas even require one letter for HRT. Please get some expert guidance before you plan to far ahead. 

I'm not married to this idea, but I do think it's good to think outside the box sometimes.  If you go back  30 or 40 years and look at all the changes that have occurred to how transgender people are treated by the medical community, you see the only constant is change.   Maybe this seems different than the standard course of care, but is there really any data that says this wouldn't work?   Probably the only information you could get any idea on how effective or not this idea would be is from people who've had orchis early on in their transition.  But I imagine it would be a small group and very hard to make any conclusions on how successful this approach would be.

By the way, I have a very good therapist, but thanks for caring.
Paige

[Paige]

Hi Paige!
Setting aside the pros and cons of getting an orchi as of now, why do you think  that getting SRS (the most totally irreversible step in the transition process)   done from the outset  looks like the most logical place to start your transition ?
Hugs
Donna

Hi Donna,

Perhaps "irreversible" is the crux of this whole discussion.   It's impossible for me to say that I wouldn't have second thoughts after such a procedure.  But I find it very hard to believe that after years of hating (that would be with a capital H) what's between my legs I would somehow miss it.   Lord knows I inflicted enough abuse on this area because of that hate.  Even if I decided to stop transitioning I would be quite happy with the change below and no one would really need to know except my wife and my doctors.

On a more positive note I really like the idea of having this little secret with my wife that nobody else needs to know about until I'm much farther along in transitioning.   

As I said to Jessica, I'm not married to this idea, just thinking outside the box.
Take care Donna,
Paige

[Genevieve]

"Hi all, This is my first post so be nice please Having had an Orchie back in 2010 after 3 years taking hormones I felt I could comment on it's effects. An Orchie isn't a substitute for SRS all it will allow is a smaller dose of Estrogen due to there being less Testosterone, The physical appearance of the male parts are altered slightly and as people have said erections and orgasm are still similar to what was possible before although what comes out isn't anything like it was".

Hi Sorcha,

I'm new here as well, so you're in good company. :-)

Of course, each person has varying experiences along their transitional journey. In many instances an Orchiectomy is performed for girls in transition instead of SRS. After it's completed & the body gradually begins to adjust to the massive drop in T levels, a sense of liberation surfaces. I had been on a healthy dose of Spironolactone just under two decades & the whole time my T levels were just as high as my estrogen levels, conflicting with each other which was very frustrating. I had been strongly advised by my endocrinologist (that the only way to successfully counteract the testosterone was) to have an Orchiectomy. Finally had it done last year & not only have my T levels dropped to below that of a genetic female, but the estrogen effects became more apparent. More pronounced.

While it is certainly true as you say, estrogen doses can be lowered, not having to ever take T blockers again or even a reduced dosage is less taxing on the liver, kidneys & there is no further need to worry about blocking testosterone by taking said blockers. If one goes off them for medical or financial reasons, there is no worry of a resurface of T to undo an orchiectomy's effects. So, while blockers have their use, & can lower levels as long as one continues their regimen, castration is a good notch above that ensures no reversal of masculinization if one had to cease medication for whatever reason, & there's less bulk than if one were on blockers, even with the shrinkage from taking them for years.

I have found at least in my case, features have gotten softer & my shape is slightly rounder as opposed to before. Also, one is endocrinologically the same as a transwoman whose undergone complete SRS. I can also attest that my libido is alot lower than it was before & the orgasm is clear. I've heard this to be true of other girls who have had the procedure done as well. It's as I said, everyone's experience varies on this journey, but it's good to share thoughts on these issues & hopefully be an inspiration or somewhat of a reference guide to others on our experiences, thoughts & opinions. :-)

[Genevieve]

Eva,

Very well said.  :-)

[Genevieve]

"This in my opinion.

I'm full time, and GCS surgery booked for next year. I still have doubts and I definitely needed RLE in order to be me".

Hi Cindy :-)

I absolutely agree agree with that. There's a reason why physicians require us to do the RLE. Life-changing procedures have no margin for error, which is why it's good to be certain. :-)

[SorchaC]

Hi Genevieve and Cindy and thank you for the welcome

I certainly agree with RLE first before any surgery, I had to go full time even before getting hormones as my Psychiatrist refused me any help until I was full time and had legally changed my name  It wasn't that he doubted my being TG just that back then these were the rules set for him to follow by UK NHS. He later admitted he had no doubts about me other than he wasn't sure I would leave the life I had for transition but once I had started he put me on hormones 4 months after going full time which was 6-8 months before they said he should. I don't think anybody should have surgical intervention until they have lived full time unless it's FFS owing to them having obvious male features that cannot be hidden any other way.

Sorcha 

[janetcgtv]

I would say at least start out by getting your hair removed first if it is a problem for you. The only good sign of having an orchie is that you will not have to take any anti testosterone drugs that can affect your liver. Depending on the surgeon doing it , may or may not leave enough skin left for depth.
The second thing to do is HRT.
But first before any of this, please talk to a gender therapist first to sort out your feelings.
One of the things a therapist will tell you is you have to do a RLE(real life experience).
This will help you to interact with people, you don't want to go cold turkey as you may be seriously hurt by some people. As you want to be able to pass as a woman

Please pay attention to the advice that you receive from people here. There are many years of experience here

[sh1982]

I think besides the pros an cons that have been mentioned by others on here i think you will have a very hard time finding any reputable doctor doing srs on you if you are not already presenting as a female as a matter of fact i dont think any doctor in North America,Europe and any of the big names in Thailand would do it.You might finds some back ally clinic in Thailand or Mexico willing to perfom surgery on you but that is not something i think you should consider.

[Agent_J]

I'll grant that I'm not exactly the pin-up girl for RLE and SRS success, given that I regret it. That said, I had 26 months of RLE before I had SRS. I am certain that my difficulties would have been far greater if I had not done RLE first. I did contemplate the question of "what if I can't get to the point of being FT before SRS?" Fortunately, my employer finally gave on the particular sticking point (for about a month they were unwilling to allow me to transition until I had updated my gender marker with the SSA and state, which required SRS at that time, so I was in a Catch-22.)

As for letters, I can't speak to orchi but I know a lot of SRS surgeons who didn't require letters a decade or so ago now do. Further, I'm finding that it's a common requirement even for breast augmentation post-SRS (I've consulted with surgeons from east to west coast across the US about BA and all but one required a letter; of those that did, they're split on if I can reuse my SRS letters or if I need to provide them with a new letter. The ones who allowed reusing the letters were often apologetic about requiring one since I'd had SRS.)

That said, "presenting female" seems to be a fairly low bar to many of the surgeons. I know that the first time I saw Dr. Brassard I was already in scrubs and it was just minutes before my surgery, and the evening staff at the hospital saw me in rather ill-fitting jeans and a baggy t-shirt that was from my guy-mode days (IT conference swag from the dot-com heyday.)

[SorchaC]

That said, "presenting female" seems to be a fairly low bar to many of the surgeons. I know that the first time I saw Dr. Brassard I was already in scrubs and it was just minutes before my surgery, and the evening staff at the hospital saw me in rather ill-fitting jeans and a baggy t-shirt that was from my guy-mode days (IT conference swag from the dot-com heyday.)

I'd have to agree with you here Agent_J, Psyches insist on presenting as the gender you identify as only to prove that you are able to live in society as that gender. When I went full time I started a Beauty Therapy course in College and that carried more weight than what clothes I wore when I saw Dr Board in the subsequent meetings.

Apart from any other reason the RLE has been enough for some, They simply are happy being seen and treated as women and some even enjoy a happy sex life still having the genitals they were born with but presenting as women. Also apart from doctors and you partner not many people get to see your genitals and so wouldn't know whether you're pre or post op unless you told them which is why SRS is not really the main definition of what your gender is.

Hugs

Sorcha 

[AnonyMs]

Hi teeg
please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to rewrite your comments to make a point.

I had no problem following the correct path to SRS nor did most other people. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that SRS isn't some magic fix.

I had no problem being male nor do most other men. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that changing gender isn't some magic fix.

I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your incorrect male body. All these stories about self castration are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.

I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your male body. All these stories about transgender are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.

Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this non-binary thing at all. Many LGBT people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between (I'm talking having a penis and boobs not what you wear or how you act) isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.

Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this transgender thing at all. Many people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.



Personally I can't really relate to what a lot of other people here feel, but I can accept it (FTM, why oh why would any women want to become a man).

[SorchaC]

Hi teeg
please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to rewrite your comments to make a point.
I had no problem being male nor do most other men. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that changing gender isn't some magic fix.
I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your male body. All these stories about transgender are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.
Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this transgender thing at all. Many people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.



Personally I can't really relate to what a lot of other people here feel, but I can accept it (FTM, why oh why would any women want to become a man).

AnonyMs I personally I don't understand most of this above post which is why I've quoted it, I absolutely agree with your right to have any opinion you want but I don't understand the point you were trying to make I have to add however that FTM are not women who want to be men anymore than MTF are men wanting to be women. We are what we are and all we are doing is setting the body we have to match what we believe we are I certainly wouldn't thank you for calling me a man no matter what anatomical features my body has.

I am not trying to upset anybody so please don't think I'm attacking anybody I just wanted to give my opinion on this

Hugs

Sorcha