How did you know you weren't FTM or MTF?

[Gothic Dandy]

I thought I had this figured out, but I'm flipping out now, and have been all week.

I had settled on being transmasculine and identifying as an androgyne (which for me means: male inside, female outside). For me, being an androgyne would mean masculinizing my appearance/presentation and living as ambiguously as possible, but keeping my legal identity female and defaulting to female in situations where I couldn't avoid it. Whereas being an FTM would mean changing my legal identity and sex and living full-time as male in all situations, albeit an androgynous/gender->-bleeped-<- male.

Well, even though I'd settled on the first option, this week I caught myself constantly daydreaming about my future self as male, and thinking of my transition in terms of me passing and living as primarily male. I can't imagine anything else. I can see myself being my daughter's butch mom when I take her to preschool, but past those years, I'm a guy. So I asked myself some questions:

Have I ever wanted to pass as male?
Have I ever wanted a penis?
Have I ever wanted a flat chest / my breasts removed?

And the answer to all was yes. They were "yes" before I knew I was trans, so I can rest assured that it's not just my current confusion deluding me.

I already know I'm transitioning. I know I'm not fully female. I'm just not sure how far I should aim. Since I was about 4 I knew that I was something in between, not a girl or a boy. Right? Or maybe...I knew I wasn't a girl, but since I've never been a boy and don't know what that feels like, I can't say whether or not I am one? I wasn't even a tomboy. I was just...nothing, not girly but not boyish either.

I'm extremely curious to know what it would be like to be male, and always have been. However, I don't just want to follow a fantasy. I'm afraid I will regret my decision if I do that. I'm so petite, have a high pitched voice, and effeminate mannerisms. I know I will never pass as male 100% of the time AND I AM OK WITH THIS; but I worry that I'm not meant to be male because of these things. I worry, even if I'm male, would it just be easier to keep living as a female?

This all probably sounds confusing and whiney, but it's driving me insane and I couldn't hold it in any longer! It's tearing me up. I'd rather stop existing than listen to my thoughts keep arguing with each other.

You will probably tell me that it's just something you figure out with time as you go through the transition process. But I want to figure myself out now! I've always struggled with my identity, including but not limited to my gender. Are there other questions I can ask myself? Videos you recommend?

[Shantel]

I don't think it's confusing and whiny! I feel the same way in many respects, I know that I'm no longer fully male though I worked at it for years and many would say I was extremely successful. They only see the outward appearances but my heart has always said otherwise. I went so far as to have the gonads docked off but then realized that I really didn't want to be a woman either, so I have found this comfortable place somewhere in the middle and finally put my mind at rest. Try not to overthink this and just be, learning to just be is a job in itself because we are pre-programed to think we have to do something. Try it you'll get the hang of it and enjoy just being Luca.   

[eli77]

I don't really think of it like that: as package deals. To me, transition is just a series of individual choices, things I want to do or don't want to do. Fundamentally each action doesn't change your identity. Those three questions, answering yes to them doesn't make you a guy, nor does it make you not a guy, they are just questions about what you want to do with your body and how you want to live your life.

Unfortunately, because we don't live in a perfect world there are practical considerations. We are all forced to either default to male or female in given situations. I default to female, for the record. I changed my name and gender markers to accommodate this. That doesn't make me a girl, though. Anymore than going through SRS did. It comes down to weighing the pros and cons for you, what will it cost, what will it gain you? Will change reduce your discomfort or increase it? Give you a better chance at happiness or not?

I wish I could offer you an easier answer than that, but there really isn't one. Most of us find where we are comfortable via trial and error, experimentation and practice.

Kind of easier to answer the "what do I want to do?" question. People have been trying to answer the "who I am?" one for centuries. Don't think many of us are any closer to a final answer.

[Ms Grace]

Having been in a state of flux for 25 years I can understand. I wanted badly to be a woman and started transitioning and HRT. But I didn't want to be a girly girl, more an andro girl, but even after two years HRT I couldn't pass as female in an andro presentation so I stopped transition. This wasn't withou a lot of soul searching, I strongly considered an orchi so I could be neither gender until the endo told me I'd need to take either E or T if I did that so as to avoid osteoporosis.

So I stopped HRT, stopped transition, tried to tell myself "I was born male I'll have to be the best non macho male I can be" which worked and didn't work in varying degrees for the next twenty years or so. During that time I variously wished I could be a woman, was glad I wasn't a cis women (because they get a pretty $#%* deal biology wise and from society), hated being excluded from women's activities, wished I could have been a mother, tried to console myself by telling myself I was a "female living as a male" (ie "f2m"!?!?!), etc, etc. So yeah, I've been all over the place, the underlying theme being a strong orientation towards the female gender.

Even though I am now happily presenting as female part of me wishes I didn't have to go through all of this to be the gender I feel happier as. When I was talking to my shrink earlier last year I said to him I'd personally rather be neither gender, but I identified more as female and since society requires you pick a team then I'd rather side with the women. What I didn't realise at the time, was I was expressing a preference for being non binary. The shrink got antsy about that so I just dropped it. I still feel a million times happier presenting to as female - but at my core I don't see myself as male or female I see myself as a person first, gender second.

I guess what I'm trying to say to you is that gender is a very personal thing, for many it is also a very fluid thing but then binary cis gender society makes it hard to know just who you are sometimes. You definitely don't want to start HRT or transition (partial or full) on a whim but it sounds to me you have a very strong desire to present somewhere on the more male than female spectrum, you're just not sure where yet.

[Gothic Dandy]

Thanks everyone.

I seem to agree with all of you in that I view one's personal gender as fluid and something that should be defined by oneself.

I think my identity crisis stems from two things...one being that society DOES require us to pick a team. I already know who I am, that I'm something in between, but when it comes time to choose a side, am I a masculine woman, or a feminine man?

I lean toward feminine man, but I'm afraid of making mistakes. And that's the second thing this crisis stems from. There are certain changes in the transition from female to male that are irreversible (when going the transsexual route), and I'm afraid of telling myself, "you'll feel happier this way," and then not being happier at all while also not being able to get back what I traded in.

"Try not to overthink this and just be,"

That's something I've never been good at :/ But I will try.

I'm open to more comments...you guys are so awesome, and listening to what you have to say always helps me sort out the inner mess in me.

[Ms Grace]

Gender is fluid, so just go with the flow!

[captains]

We use a lot of the same identity words, and have a lot of the same experiences. I wish I could reply to this post with on-point advice, but unfortunately, all I can offer is solidarity. I feel like I'm balanced on a knife's edge these days - about to topple over either to Butch Woman or FTM.

A complicating factor for me is that, while I sometimes experience agender dysphoria, where I strongly feel that I am neither man nor woman, I find truly androgynous presentation very frightening, socially. That disconnect is weird: I dont want to anyone to see me and think 'boy' or 'girl,' but I'm also a natural people-pleaser. I've never been able to shake the urge to be the best ... whatever I am, and to be validated for my gender presentation. Society does tell us to pick a side, you're right, and. Well, I'm a coward. Those days I think, ''well, if I can't be handsome, at least I can try and be beautiful.''

But then I feel like crap all over again. Lipstick on a pig, man in a dress, and no amount of Mommy and Daddy telling me I look awful pretty~ turns that feeling off.

And then I'm back to thinking I''m FTM. Gender fluidity. Wacky stuff.

[Satinjoy]

Thanks everyone.

I seem to agree with all of you in that I view one's personal gender as fluid and something that should be defined by oneself.

I think my identity crisis stems from two things...one being that society DOES require us to pick a team. I already know who I am, that I'm something in between, but when it comes time to choose a side, am I a masculine woman, or a feminine man?

I lean toward feminine man, but I'm afraid of making mistakes. And that's the second thing this crisis stems from. There are certain changes in the transition from female to male that are irreversible (when going the transsexual route), and I'm afraid of telling myself, "you'll feel happier this way," and then not being happier at all while also not being able to get back what I traded in.

"Try not to overthink this and just be,"

That's something I've never been good at :/ But I will try.

I'm open to more comments...you guys are so awesome, and listening to what you have to say always helps me sort out the inner mess in me.

No time at the moment but I see a third option.  It is the option of the non binary.

"I think my identity crisis stems from two things...one being that society DOES require us to pick a team. I already know who I am, that I'm something in between"

I would challenge this, that we have to pick a team.  I am someone in between.  Physically hald male half female.  Presenting with some female characteristics present and some male present.  Nobody is batting an eye.  Even in the home presentation, which is quite startling late evening to say the least, I am fully accepted.   

Yes the physical stuff needs to be fully thought through... as representative of your Authentic Self.  Not socially dictated self, not trans dictated self, the not trans enough trap.

There are so many options, there is more freedom than you think, we are imprisoned only by our own perception of our limitation, but it takes guts to be authentic.

Just thoughts.  Ideas.  There are no limits to self expression, but there is a reality to our core gender, and that we need to discover, it can take quite a lot of time.

"To thine own self be true".  True to the core my dear one, true to your core.

Nails out hair waiting heart open  ------ Satinjoy

[Gothic Dandy]

Gender is fluid, so just go with the flow!

Cameron, thanks for your input. I have a similar fear of being seen as a woman in man's clothes or a man in women's clothes. Well, not really a fear. I just don't want my gender to be the first thing on people's minds when they meet me. But, being as I love androgynous presentation, that will probably never be a thing I can escape completely.

Satinjoy I don't know why, but the thought of being both male and female at the same time all the time hadn't sunk in. I think that was what I wanted before I started thinking "but what if I'm FTM?" and confusing myself all over again. Thanks for reminding me what that feels like.

[Satinjoy]

A unique gender.  What is mtf.  what is ftm.  A physical transition, or a different gender reality.  A presentation or a physical need and matching body for that need.

Infinite possibilities, no boxes, no destinations, only finding our truth.  Who we are.  Not I need to be such and such to be happy.  Not I must be mtf or ftm therefore I must do fte in a full male or full female presentation.  If it fits your core gender then sure, it is authentic, go for it.  If it does not, you have all kinds of ways to go, no limitations on who you can be, what vision is right for you, not what vision is right for someone elses expectations of you, whether peer pressure, social pressures, internal conformity pressures, or what have you.

Much to think over my dear, but the idea of ... what if..... what if you are you?  And you want such and such to ease your dysphoria, be happy and live free?  Find you, find the core, find the presentations you enjoy, and be them all my dear.  Be authentic.  Be free.

Blessings from the fairy.

[Jaded Jade]

I knew I was not male because there were too many things about me that were not as they should be to be fully male.

I knew I was not male because there were too many things about me that were too feminine to be fully male.

I knew I was not MTF because there were too many things about me that were not as they should be to be fully female.

I knew I was not MTF because there were too many things about me that were too masculine to be fully female.

I knew I was MTA because I looked into the mirror and did not see myself.  Except rarely as a glint in my own eye, banging on the glass and screaming eternally to get out.

I knew I was MTA because dysphoria was grinding my mind and soul to dust, turning me into a dead husk, an accursed thing.

I know I am Androgyne because I now have, even to a small and growing degree, traits of both, and I am happy.  For the first time my skin fits and feels like me.

I know I am Androgyne because the gender fluidity of my mind smoothly spins about my androgyny like a gear about its axis.


I am at the beginning of my journey, yet I know I am on the right path.


- Jaded Jade

[EchelonHunt]

(Sorry to copy you Jaded Jade but you have a wonderful way of illustrating your point clearly!)

I knew I was not a cisgender woman because I experienced dysphoria regarding my female body not being aligned with my mind.
I knew I was not FtM because I experienced dysphoria when passing as a male.

Quite a predicament... being a woman or a man causes me dysphoria... yet I have three distinct gender identities within one body... We are present to the world at all times as one individual.

Jay, a flat-chested girl who doesn't want to conform to gender stereotypes. She identifies more towards femme/androgynous than being female.
Jacey, a genderless individual who desires a sexless body. They experience crippling dysphoria over harboring genitals or secondary characteristics of either sex.
Jason, a feminine boy who is a ->-bleeped-<-. His self-image of his body lies somewhere between eunuch or nullo. He identifies more towards femme/androgynous than being male.

Together, we explore the world as one, with our separate identities giving us many insights under the transgender umbrella... we can empathize with others in their journey as our identity is as fluid and ever-changing. I cherish this ability and hope to never take it for granted.