Klinefelter?

[Alexis2107]

Well, had my second therapy session today and got my letter for HRT... she's going to email it to me Wednesday but went ahead and emailed me the doctor she recommends to get my HRT from.  Which, by the way, is covered through insurance and I've already checked the co pay on the hormones, and seems insurance covers it 100% but I am on obamacare if anyone wondering..

Anyways, my therapist says I have Klinefelter Syndrome... my hormones were tested and I have little testosterone and high amounts of estrogen, small breast growth (no HRT), very little male puberty, little hair growth on body, having monthly cycles that causes strong emotions, and voice hasn't ever changed, sounds feminine.  She says those who have Klinefelter will develop quickly on hormone replacement, so I was wondering... does anyone have this? and how did HRT effect you? 

[Ms Grace]

I think it helps to have that extra X in there, but I've read it can lead to some other health issues. Best to check with your doctor or a genetic specialist if you feel unsure.

[JoanneB]

The only way to know for sure is with a chromosome test. When my wife first saw me naked she confessed to me the first thing that popped into her head was Klinefelter's. After doing some looking into I sure got the look. Along with a few of the characteristics.

As with all things hormones YMMV. The endo may have some insight

[HughE]

Unless you've been karyotyped and it came back XXY, your therapist is just guessing. However it is my impression that a lot more of us have feminine skeletal markers and a more female-typical body structure overall than is the case for the cis male population. This is a sign of having hypogonadism (below normal male levels of testosterone) during childhood and puberty, and is something that's often associated with intersex conditions. It's one of the lines of evidence pointing to transness being a type of intersex condition. Klinefelters is one of the things that can cause hypogonadism, but so can just about any other cause of intersex.

There's two types of hypogonadism, primary and secondary. With primary hypogonadism, the testicles are physically unable to produce enough testosterone, despite the brain telling them to do so. With secondary hypogonadism, the testicles are OK, but the brain isn't sending out enough of the signal telling them to produce testosterone. In my case, although I haven't been karyotyped, it's definitely secondary hypogonadism. That rules out Klinefelters, because Klinefelters causes primary hypogonadism.

If you've had a full set of labs done, you can actually tell from those whether you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. With primary hypogonadism, your total and free testosterone will be low, whereas your LH and FSH (the signal that tells your testicles to do their thing) will be at or near the top of the range. With secondary hypogonadism, your total and free testosterone will be low, and your LH and FSH will be towards the bottom of the range too.

The effects as far as your body's physical development is concerned are more or less the same with primary and secondary hypogonadism, however there's one important difference. With primary hypogonadism, you're likely to be infertile, but with secondary hypogonadism, there's a very good chance that you can produce viable sperm. If you are secondary and you think you might want children in the future, it's a good idea to have some of your sperm frozen before you start HRT. Once you've been on hormones for a while, it's much more difficult to get to a state where you can produce viable sperm again (and would probably mean coming off hormones for a long time).

[Alexis2107]

HughE,

So much information (:

I've been tested and no I cannot produce sperm and testosterone is very low.  My boyfriend and I have already decided at this point we'll have to adopt unless we come up with other ideas, but this won't be done until I have my sex reassignment surgery, which we are planning on in a couple of years so we could get married afterwards. 

[Lauren1]

I believe Chloe Prince has said she has this syndrome. She still got implants and FFS it seems, so YMMV. Google her to read her story.

[Anna-Maria]

Unless you've been karyotyped and it came back XXY, your therapist is just guessing. However it is my impression that a lot more of us have feminine skeletal markers and a more female-typical body structure overall than is the case for the cis male population. This is a sign of having hypogonadism (below normal male levels of testosterone) during childhood and puberty, and is something that's often associated with intersex conditions. It's one of the lines of evidence pointing to transness being a type of intersex condition. Klinefelters is one of the things that can cause hypogonadism, but so can just about any other cause of intersex.

There's two types of hypogonadism, primary and secondary. With primary hypogonadism, the testicles are physically unable to produce enough testosterone, despite the brain telling them to do so. With secondary hypogonadism, the testicles are OK, but the brain isn't sending out enough of the signal telling them to produce testosterone. In my case, although I haven't been karyotyped, it's definitely secondary hypogonadism. That rules out Klinefelters, because Klinefelters causes primary hypogonadism.

If you've had a full set of labs done, you can actually tell from those whether you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. With primary hypogonadism, your total and free testosterone will be low, whereas your LH and FSH (the signal that tells your testicles to do their thing) will be at or near the top of the range. With secondary hypogonadism, your total and free testosterone will be low, and your LH and FSH will be towards the bottom of the range too.

The effects as far as your body's physical development is concerned are more or less the same with primary and secondary hypogonadism, however there's one important difference. With primary hypogonadism, you're likely to be infertile, but with secondary hypogonadism, there's a very good chance that you can produce viable sperm. If you are secondary and you think you might want children in the future, it's a good idea to have some of your sperm frozen before you start HRT. Once you've been on hormones for a while, it's much more difficult to get to a state where you can produce viable sperm again (and would probably mean coming off hormones for a long time).

Wow, explaining complex contexts like Klinefelter (or de-la-Chapelle, so often forgotten...) in so smooth and elegant a way should be applauded to. 

My psych once told me, out of his 25 years of practice with MtF he is somewhat convinced (in a personal manner not in a sense of scientific proof) that, in trans women one finds often traits dissimilar to the normal cis- male population. I.e.  showing traits which could lead to the conclucion that Klinefelter or De-la-Chapelle are somewhat interconnected with being Trans. But that´s not the case, Klinefelter patients often have a male subconscious sex and don´t want to transition. My Psych thinks that, the brain though being "female programmed" leads in most cases to secondary hypergonadism, without being related to chromsomal sex.

Anyhow, I´m looking forward for having my chromosomes tested. I´m just too curious about to find out.

[ImagineKate]

I may get tested but I have a few things such as gynecomastia (pre HRT) and a female-ish skeleton. After shaving off my body hair and my wife saw me she was shocked because my torso looks like a heavy set woman with small boobs. My WHR is 0.76 (31" waist, 41" hips) now and only getting smaller as I lose weight. All through my childhood and even my teen years I looked like a girl. I also have low fertility (count, motility and morphology) so we needed assistance. I also have a female carry angle and slightly forward hip rotation. I have always had low T and that has not helped with building muscle and getting rid of fat. Unfortunately I also had a lot of body hair but so have a lot of females in my family including my daughters.

[Anna-Maria]

I may get tested but I have a few things such as gynecomastia (pre HRT) and a female-ish skeleton. After shaving off my body hair and my wife saw me she was shocked because my torso looks like a heavy set woman with small boobs. My WHR is 0.76 (31" waist, 41" hips) now and only getting smaller as I lose weight. All through my childhood and even my teen years I looked like a girl. I also have low fertility (count, motility and morphology) so we needed assistance. I also have a female carry angle and slightly forward hip rotation. I have always had low T and that has not helped with building muscle and getting rid of fat. Unfortunately I also had a lot of body hair but so have a lot of females in my family including my daughters.

The traits we have may differ from one to another which is quite normal, I guess. Many of us show traits which are not common for cis males. For example, I never developed any major corporal hair, on my arms I just have this light "baby hair" and the first time I had to shave the upper lip and chin when I was at the age of 18 or 19 while having most of my face free of hair till today. My skull is small, my chin is feminine, my ears and my nose left small, my eyes are big. my eybrows are waved in a feminine manner.  My skeletal structure is almost feminine with feminine hips. My hips are flat and rounded not as pulled up as for most cis male. my girlfriend confirmed this as she told me that my hips  would make me walk in a naturally feminine manner with waving hips. My hip scope is wider than my breast scope and since I started losing weight, I started developing a feminine waist line, which astonished even my Psych.

But all this doesn´t mean I´ve got Klinefelter because Klinefelter is stereotypically associated with some other traits I don´t have, e.g. I´m not showing  high growth above average (even for girls), long arms or problems with articulation. But what´s most embarrasing is that Klinefelters often show a reduced life expectancy.

For me, if there should be anything found in my chromosome structure, I bet for having de-la-Chapelle syndrome. De-la-Chapelle makes you having an almost  100 % female genetics + SRY on the second X-chromosome. This syndrome acknowledges better why some of us show feminine traits without showing other traits associated with Klinefelter. But again, there´s no evidence that Klinefelters or de-la-Chapelles are haivng a higher prevalence in being Transsexual than the average population. Showing these syndromes doesn´t make you less Trans than you actually are. It just might make it easier for you to cope with passing issues and the impact of estrogene and gestagenes on your body.

[ImagineKate]

I'm not saying that I am. I am saying that there are a number of traits I have and I'm genuinely curious. It doesn't affect whether or not I'm transsexual. I am. This is not under question at all and is independent (to me) of any physical confirmation.

[Anna-Maria]

I'm not saying that I am. I am saying that there are a number of traits I have and I'm genuinely curious. It doesn't affect whether or not I'm transsexual. I am. This is not under question at all and is independent (to me) of any physical confirmation.

That´s exactly what I was talking about. Your chromosomal structure says nothing about who you really are. There are numbers of cis-XY-women out there, are they no "real" women
?  I guess, we as a society in general have to learn that neither genetics nor hormones alone define who you are.