Left-Hand Path Religions

[Satyrane]

I was wonder if anyone else here has had experience with or is currently a part of Left-Hand Path religions such as Daemonolatry, Luciferianism, and the different denominations of Satanism.

I'm a daemonolator, a hermetic tradition which I like to describe as a polytheistic, pantheistic form of Satanism (not all daemonolators see themselves as Satanists but I see myself as one). I view Satan as the adversarial force in the universe that animates life, and I worship the daemons as different manifestations of Satan and Great Nature.

I have grown immensely as a person since I began my practice including learning to accept my transgender nature. I don't really talk about it because I like to keep the secular and the religious separate (a holdover from my years as an atheist), and it's quite frankly no ones business. However, at times it does feel alienating when everyone around you is talking about their faith and going to social events about it, and I have to hold my peace and practice with no interaction with anyone in the occult community or at the very least the pagan community. I also worry that because trans folk are demonized (pun intended) so much by society, I will be seen as a liability by our community for being a theistic Satanist.

I also encourage people of non Left-Hand Path belief systems to comment. I would like to know you're perspective on these religions, if you've ever interacted with a practitioner, or how you feel knowing that people like me are among the ranks of the trans community.

[Gothic Dandy]

Well hello there. 

Most in-person meetings I've had with self-described Satanists haven't been pleasant, so I don't describe myself as one, although I do technically fall under the LHP umbrella. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat about this stuff.

I differentiate between daemons (the ancient Greek concept) and demons (the Christian/Western occult concept). Do most d(a)emonolators think of these as the same type of being? I don't know much about this branch of occultism.

I've learned that daemons are something like spirit guides or guardian angels, personal companions who are somewhere between the world of humans and the world of Gods. That's really oversimplified, but...

[Eevee]

I differentiate between daemons (the ancient Greek concept) and demons (the Christian/Western occult concept). Do most d(a)emonolators think of these as the same type of being? I don't know much about this branch of occultism.

I don't follow any religion, but I do study mythology (including more current religions) through art history. As I see it, a lot of the Christian and other Western faith concepts like demons were birthed through Greek and Roman (same thing really) mythological concepts. All that really changed over the years is the imagery attached to the older beliefs. A lot of older things just got tacked onto newer beliefs with a skewed image and definition. Taking it from that angle, I could see demons and daemons being the same thing. Many things go back to the same roots.

[Satyrane]

Yep, you both hit the nail on the head. We use the Greek understanding of Daemon, which is a guiding spirit replete with wisdom. We acknowledge the cultural evolution of these spirits, and how it effected our faith. We choose to worship these spirits because they represent the darker side of Nature that we don't understand and we could learn greatly from. There can be risks working with but they are ultimately benign, morally neutral, and mostly only want respect.

Luca, I am not surprised the Satanists that you've met have left a sour after taste. It seems that many of use come into the religion with a preexisting condition of douchebaggery. It's partially potent with the atheistic ones thanks to the heaping dose of Objectivism Anton LaVey threw in. Theistic Satanists can be p annoying too since some of them are militant about their version of Satanism is the best on. All and all, we're pretty sectarian with an unfortunate amount of jerks. That's why a like the path of Daemonolatry so much: it likes to do its own thing without bothering anyone, and focuses on self-development above anyone else.

I'd love to chat with you more, Luca. I'm sure to PM you once I have 15 posts under my belt.

[Gothic Dandy]

Oh, I forgot you need a certain amount of posts to PM.  My bad.

The way you describe daemons is somewhat akin to how some Pagans view faeries. I find it amazing how, even throughout history, people come up with different ways to describe similar concepts. (Of course I acknowledge that daemonolatry is its own unique path and I respect that.)

It's true that demon comes from the root word "daemon" (what Eevee said), but I have to make the distinction because some Pagans have daemons in the classical sense. Myself included. At some point it's probably just a matter of semantics, though. A lot of things are like that.

As for me, I'm currently Wiccan with a Luciferian philosophy (and boy would most Pagans flip out if they heard that one). I'm the kind of Luciferian who distinguishes between Lucifer and Satan, which is the real reason why I don't think I'm a Satanist. Satan is like our primal urges, and Lucifer is like enlightenment and intelligence, rising above our animalistic desires. Not that they're bad, it's just...we're humans and are capable of great things if we apply ourselves and don't always give in to temptation and indulgence. Which kind of sounds like Objectivism. I should really probably read LaVey's book one day.

[Ev]

I am going to come out and say that I am a Satanist.  However, since Satanism is a philosophy that is based heavily on the individual, please do not let me be the "say-all" represenative for ANY other Satanist out there or even the CoS.  I am a proud red-card holder but am not an agent or priest, so if you have any questions about the Church please go to the website instead of asking me anything directly.  The Devil can explain himself better than I ever could.  If you have any questions to ask me about me that isn't a passive-aggressive/indirect way to get answers about the Church, I can answer those.  I can go on about me for a long time hahahaha.

I myself don't go around and flaunt that I am a Satanist, but when asked I usually won't deny it.  Many other Satanists aren't as open as I am about their affiliation for a variety of reasons: the biggest one (in the US) is for proffessional concerns, as it can be career suicide in certain fields.  I myself am a retired vet, so I have a little more freedom to step up where many cannot as there is no concern over me losing a job.  Anyone who comes into this thread is probably not going to be the "average Joe" so I don't object to outing myself here.

As far as Satanists being unpleasant, well, if they are in someone else's lair...like, say, Susan's...and they are grade-A >-bleeped-<s, they are committing a Satanic Sin.  An internet domain IS STILL someone else's lair, as they spend the time and money to maintain it.  I want to reach out and slap people who are ungrateful to their virtual hosts and the guests, as it is not their home and if they don't like the way things are or the people in it, they should just leave.

I am a Satanist for my own reasons, but I am sure it would sound a lot like "someone else's" reasons as well so there is no reason for me to explain my...uh...reasons.  Instead, I let my accomplishments do the talking for the most part.  What you read on the internet is too easy to fake, so I expect you to even approach me with scrutiny with your BS filters on high when I come out touting that I am a Satanist.  Too many morons misinterpret the philosophy, which works sometimes to my advantage as it does my hinderance. 

As far as what I have done: I am a war vet, transgender living out their desires, former martial arts instructor, and self-published author of no fewer than 5 books for starters.  I like classical music, as well as the old-school fantasy epic like Beowulf and Gilgamesh.  I find most (not all) death-metal to be abrasive and hard to digest.  I'll stop there, but use that to illustrate a point that Satanism isn't about "evil" music and horror stories all the time.

If you have any questions, I am offering myself up to answer them to the best of my ability.  Again, go to the CS website if you have any questions about the organization.

~Hail Satan

[Gothic Dandy]

So we have a Daemonolator, a Luciferian, and a Satanist. What a fun party! Who else wants to join? 

My first brush with "Satanists" was a bunch of moody teenagers who were in a metal band and liked to draw pentacles on everything. I was Neo-Pagan back then and even I was offended, lol.

I didn't realize it was still such a career-killer to identify yourself as a Satanist. I grew up in a liberal, (sub)urban area so I always assumed we were living in fairly progressive times. I didn't even realize it was still socially acceptable to discriminate against trans individuals at work until I came to this forum and heard some of the stories.

Although to be fair, I wouldn't volunteer either of those details to most people. I was hesitant to even come out on here as Luciferian, since the forum is completely open to the public, and I'm paranoid that one day I will piss off someone influential and they'll go fishing the internet for blackmail. Haha, like I'm that important!

[Jess42]

As far as Satanists being unpleasant, well, if they are in someone else's lair...like, say, Susan's...and they are grade-A >-bleeped-<s, they are committing a Satanic Sin.  An internet domain IS STILL someone else's lair, as they spend the time and money to maintain it.  I want to reach out and slap people who are ungrateful to their virtual hosts and the guests, as it is not their home and if they don't like the way things are or the people in it, they should just leave.

I'm not really anything other than Spiritual and believe in natural negative or dark energies and positive or light energies, and so on. But yeah you are right. Every CoS cardholder that I ever met were extremely pleasant people. Even more so than a lot of other people and a whole lot more repectful of other people's lives and lifetstyles. Especially the part of respecting all life even animals and the use of animals for food. But still respect. Even read the CoS Satanic Bible written by LeVey a long time ago. I still love that stupidity and ignorance are Satanic Sins. For whatever reason I just can't belong to any religion. That to me goes with an hierarchy and I detest authority. Especially over my own possible eternity.

But belief systems are belief systems and it is extremely good to have something to believe in. Just remember though especially when it comes to Satanic Rituals that anything can come back to you so be extremely careful and sure. Not just limited to Satanism either. What energy you do put out it is very possible that it will be returned to you in time. So dark energy, be very careful with.

[Ev]

Jess:

It's nice to see someone who has read TSB and then developed their own opinion about it.  However, while I do not agree on your views 100% Jess42 about rituals, I don't care to drag this debate out in the open.  Ritual is entirely personal, like our sex lives, and thus is best left behind closed doors most of the time.



Gothic Lady:

My wife is a non-theistic (agnostic) Luciferianist herself with a touch of Neo-Pagan, who taps into the symbolism instead of the literal side of things.  So, to better understand my Little Lucy, I read over some of Ford's books but already had a "fair" grasp on Pagan lore from my brief time as an experimental Gnostic.  Interesting (The Bible of the Adversary) is all I dare say out in the open...but religious studies is one of my primary interests so I read it with as much of an open mind as I would anything else.  (Myth is ammo when it is time to write.)  I can "live with" the idea of my mate being Luciferian, even if I do not adhere to the teachings myself.

Out of the four Crown Princes, Lucifer was the one I identified with the most...being often depicted as androgynous and artistic, he is my natural archetype.  (Other than Loki the Trickster, who swapped genders often to meet his goals.)  There is a lot of overlap in the Lady's and my own personal philosophies, but then enough of a difference for her to say "this" and me to say "that".

As far as it (openly Satanist) being a career-killer, it really is a matter of where you are and what you are doing.  Someone at the "Spicy Subject" store in the mall in San Fran could probably get away with it AND benefit from it, but someone at a law firm in Texas may be asking for trouble.  I myself am openly trans, so there is already a "law of the forbidden" attached to me...being trans is also potentially a career killer, so it just added to the "taboo" I naturally carry.  I also write sci-fi/fantasy for a living, so the extra space it gives me is nice, as most people prefer to keep their distance these days and I can immerse myself in my works.  As I said, my case is somewhat "different" than most people's so I have really nothing to lose by coming out in the open about it...and I have my privacy to gain.  However, Dr. Smith the dentist may need to button that top button real tight to keep his baphomet hidden under his shirt, unless he wants people to think he is using their teeth for some evil working and lost all the time/money he invested in Med School.

I get a lot of flack from a lot of the trans I have encountered in my life, because of my beliefs in stratification and the fact I LOVE being a ">-bleeped-<" and ">-bleeped-<" instead of being a "woman trapped in a man's body" so to speak.  Apparently, both is a "bad" word/concept and I "shouldn't" use them.  I won't dip into that any more here as I may have already tapped the top of the can of worms, but as a Satanist I am not here to become part of some "herd" and thus am going to be an outcast amongst outcasts...a goat amongst black sheep.  I am here to learn, and to share what I learned if anyone cares to listen.  So I have to take the vast majority of my views off-site as a gesture of respect for the "equality" pushed here.

But enough of that.  Since I am here and out in the open, I have subjected myself to any response and thus have no room to complain about anything said to me at this point.  Take care, and thank you all for your time.

~HS

[Jess42]

Jess:

It's nice to see someone who has read TSB and then developed their own opinion about it.  However, while I do not agree on your views 100% Jess42 about rituals, I don't care to drag this debate out in the open.  Ritual is entirely personal, like our sex lives, and thus is best left behind closed doors most of the time.

I definately agree. But I also believe the same about praying too. It should be personal. It really isn't any different though. For example, if somone prays for a tornado not to hit their house then they are trying to consciously re direct it to possibly hit someone else's house. I guess what I am trying to say is the old saying of "be careful of what you wish for". If you wish to forego your suffering then you may indeed cause someone else to suffer that wasn't meant to. Does that make any sense? It did when I wrote it.

As for the Satanic Bible though. I have absolutely nothing against anyone that is Satanist or Christian. As a matter of fact a lot of The Satanic Bible I agree with. Anton LeVey I agreed with. Zeena was a beautiful woman but that idiot, Nicholos Shreck she married could go. Werewolf Coven? Really? That is just my own personal opinion. Well actually most of The Satanic Bible I agree with. Our beliefs are 100% personal dependant on nothing else but ourselves and life experiences. It does Irk me though when you have people out there that claim to be Satanists that murder people and animals but still have no clue what it is about. Blond haired, blue eyed virgins being sacrificed at midnight in a grave yard on Halloween was a really big urban legend about "Devil Worshipers" where I grew up. Maybe if they did a little research instead of fall into the hysteria, they may understand that followers of the Church of Satan respect life more than want to needlesly destroy it.

But just one thing and nothing personal but praying, rituals, wishing, and so on is putting some of your energy out there in the cosmos. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't but on a psychological level, the negative stuff is best used sparingly, if at all and only for extreme instances. As for physical negativity though, if somone smites you on the cheek. Smite them back. Forget all that turning the other cheek. I don't want both cheeks scarred. Ya' Know?

BTW Ev. No one is ever gonna' agree 100% with someone else's beliefs. It is way too personal and just as unique as we ourselves are.

[Ev]

I definately agree. But I also believe the same about praying too. It should be personal. It really isn't any different though. For example, if somone prays for a tornado not to hit their house then they are trying to consciously re direct it to possibly hit someone else's house. I guess what I am trying to say is the old saying of "be careful of what you wish for". If you wish to forego your suffering then you may indeed cause someone else to suffer that wasn't meant to. Does that make any sense? It did when I wrote it.

Makes perfect sense.  I will, since we are here, discuss this as it is one of the many "grey areas" that Satanism is full of.

In Satanism, survival of self is the highest law.  This is it for me.  When I die, I am dead...and I love life with a passion.  I will do whatever I can to defend it and to carry guilt over "whatever it takes" will only turn to self-hate and loathing, diminishing the quality of life I have as I go the rest of my days moping about that someone else died because/instead of me.  I cannot do this to myself, so I cannot have any regrets if a "working" leads to someone else'sdemise. 

So, I will use your scenario of the tornado:

If I use magic to save myself from a tornado, I have saved my own life.  I never asked that it hit someone else's house, I merely asked that it MISS mine.  The more specific one gets in magic, the less likely it is to work.  So, I have to expend the bare minimal energy in diverting the tornado.  To do so, I just "wish" that the tornado not harm me...and it doesn't.  Mission accomplished.  If I demand too much of magic it means I am putting too much "brain" and not enough "heart" into it, which reduces its effectiveness.  Magic must be emotionally charged, not intellectually driven. 

If, however, my neighbor doesn't work his/her magic...or, using less energy, doesn't take refuge in their reinforced cellar/basement...and they die, well, I can't feel sorry for them.  If they were a friend, I could mourn over my loss of a friend, but I cannot feel sorry for saving my own life.  Regret and guilt is what would get me in this case, NOT a backfired working.

Survival is THE law.  It sounds cold to some, but people who feel as if they can't save their own skin because it may mean "hurting" someone else really has no place in Satanism.  Sometimes, the things we do have consequences we can never forsee...so to worry about that means one is only going to live a life of fear and pain, afraid to ever ask for anything fortunate to happen to them.  I refuse to rob myself of joy this way.

[Jess42]

Makes perfect sense.  I will, since we are here, discuss this as it is one of the many "grey areas" that Satanism is full of.

In Satanism, survival of self is the highest law.  This is it for me.  When I die, I am dead...and I love life with a passion.  I will do whatever I can to defend it and to carry guilt over "whatever it takes" will only turn to self-hate and loathing, diminishing the quality of life I have as I go the rest of my days moping about that someone else died because/instead of me.  I cannot do this to myself, so I cannot have any regrets if a "working" leads to someone else'sdemise. 

So, I will use your scenario of the tornado:

If I use magic to save myself from a tornado, I have saved my own life.  I never asked that it hit someone else's house, I merely asked that it MISS mine.  The more specific one gets in magic, the less likely it is to work.  So, I have to expend the bare minimal energy in diverting the tornado.  To do so, I just "wish" that the tornado not harm me...and it doesn't.  Mission accomplished.  If I demand too much of magic it means I am putting too much "brain" and not enough "heart" into it, which reduces its effectiveness.  Magic must be emotionally charged, not intellectually driven. 

If, however, my neighbor doesn't work his/her magic...or, using less energy, doesn't take refuge in their reinforced cellar/basement...and they die, well, I can't feel sorry for them.  If they were a friend, I could mourn over my loss of a friend, but I cannot feel sorry for saving my own life.  Regret and guilt is what would get me in this case, NOT a backfired working.

Survival is THE law.  It sounds cold to some, but people who feel as if they can't save their own skin because it may mean "hurting" someone else really has no place in Satanism.  Sometimes, the things we do have consequences we can never forsee...so to worry about that means one is only going to live a life of fear and pain, afraid to ever ask for anything fortunate to happen to them.  I refuse to rob myself of joy this way.

Unfortunately Ev, there are so many grey areas in any belief systems. I won't say I am devine, any and everything but. But I will not save myself and put other's in harms way. If there is nothing then it will be sweet nothingess. If there is something then I really don't worry too much about it. But there is one thing LeVey mentioned. When the adults have a party and send the child to bed, the child usually will remain awake and watch in secrecy from the staircase. Hidden from all the oblivious adults. This stands out. To me it means that Anton Szandor LeVey believed in more than nothingness after death. How can you wathc a party after the adults put you to bed? How can you watch life go on after Death? But I don't mind watching the "party" from the top of the staircase hidden. Just like the Holy Bible, The Satanic Bible hints at something. Oh yeah. My version was really blasphemous in the beginning. The Rejection of Christ and all. I bought this in the mid to late eighties. Now I really don't know how it is. But LeVey was a genius much like Swaggert and Baker. But LeVey was way more true or to me he was. He held in regard the seven deadly sins, the Holy Bible don't even mention these animalistic instincts. And that is what they are. Instictual to any animal in the field and since humans are animals too. It is deep in our instinctual urges.

But yeah the strong shall survive. But I would hate it if I caused anyone else harm with what I tried to prevent. If I do die hon. No big deal. So? But I will survive if it comes down to it. I want to live but could I actually live if my the sake of my life caused someone theirs? If I didn't know any better, yeah, I could but the one big sin of LeVeyan Satanism is stupidity and ignorance. I accept whatever life holds for me. Whether there is sweet nothingness and I, the real Me, is snuffed out like a candle blown out. I accept it. Welcome it even. Non existance equals no pain. If my life is snuffed out and I have to watch the world from the "top of the stairs" then I will be happy for those that deserve it and resentful for those that don't. Maybe even hateful for those that are truly the band of society. But hon, if it comes down to kill or be killed then the fates will decide that.

No hon. It is not cold. Survival is a basic ultimate instinct. But what if you don't care to survive? What if a person were to sacrifice themselves for someone else? Even another member of the Curch of Satan or someone you loved and cherished?

No offense. I still have friends that are true Stanists. I have friends that think they are Satanists. I have friends that are Crhistian and I have friends that are Catholic. I differntiate Catholicism from Christianity because of the cermonious stuff. All give the same answer. they would but would they really if the crap hit the fan? The only way to know is when the crap gets splatterered

What would I do? Honestly? I don't know. I would like to think that I would give the ultimate sacrifice and more than once was prepared to. Even took the idiots hand with the gun and put it right between my eyes. So these little mean buttholes that are so callous can't kill you when you want them too? Did I really want to die? Not really. Would I have? Oh yeah. I am prepared. I don't care. Surviving with the pain isn't near as promising as non existance without. Even watching from the strairs, as long as I could have a little pink nightgown on, I would be happy. I don't care.

Have you really ever known a true Satanist? Other than card holding members? I will not pay tigthes to belong to any church. My money is mine and mine alone I will never pay for a belief. If I want to share then I will. I don't have a card. But what is in the heart is what the truth really is. I would never ask for money but I'm not Anton Szandor LeVey. I am not the Princess of Darkness or The Queen of Light but like everyone, somewhere in between.

Truthfully Ev. We may not 100% agree. It doesn't matter because like you said it is as personal as what is in the bedroom. But the dark I know really well. Thus why my warning. Anton was close. Alliester Crowly was too. But true dark? I won't say anymore but you can care and show compassion and empathy even when your Soul is black. If there is even such a thing as a Soul.

Wow. I must really be insane or evil. But I can still care about others though.

Do you mind if I PM you?

[Ev]

By all means, PM if you have anything to say you don't feel comfortable saying out in the open.

[Ev]

But on the issue of the red card, I address openly:

It is to show my support to an organization with people in it I have come to admire, nothing more.  It is not meant to validate my beliefs.

If you like Spider-Man comics, you buy them to keep them going.  You don't need to buy a comic to like Spider-Man as a character, though...but "likes" don't pay the bills.  That is about as well as I can explain it.

[Ev]

And, if for whatever reason you cannot PM me here and you have a FB account, you can join me over there.

[Jess42]

But on the issue of the red card, I address openly:

It is to show my support to an organization with people in it I have come to admire, nothing more.  It is not meant to validate my beliefs.

If you like Spider-Man comics, you buy them to keep them going.  You don't need to buy a comic to like Spider-Man as a character, though...but "likes" don't pay the bills.  That is about as well as I can explain it.

Ev. Yeah. You are right. I have paid my share. I don't want anything from it though. I have also paid Tighes to both. I don't want a card or anthing. I am dark, maybe a little of both. But that is being human thouhg hon.

[Jess42]

BTW. PMs is the best way. Especially about this. I agree Ev, beleive me. I agree. No, I don't have FB. I am about as Anti social sights other than this one.

[Ev]

BTW. PMs is the best way. Especially about this. I agree Ev, beleive me. I agree. No, I don't have FB. I am about as Anti social sights other than this one.

You are correct.  I will admit I am a little zealous sometimes.

I use FB to advertise my work, and that is about it.

[Alexx86]

Just stumbled upon this thread and had a skim read over it. Figured I'd sort of jump in and say that I'm curious about Luciferianism in some ways, have a strong primal identity but not comfy about labelling myself anything other than an Occultist and/or Pagan when it comes to my spirituality.

[SiobhánF]

I would consider myself a philosophical Satanist. I'm not a religious person, nor would I want to be. I'm more of an atheistic Satanist. I don't believe that spells or curses do anything but to put our minds at ease in "knowing" that our wishes will come true if we just believe it hard enough. I say the same thing about prayer. I'm more of a person of action and see no point in wasting time on things that cannot be verified or proven. I see some benefits of rituals, which serve to release much negative energy from the mind and body and bring a serenity to the person(s) using such things.

So, to get things straight, in case people are not aware, Satanism isn't the worship of Satan, or anything like it. Satan literally means "adversary," as in the adversary to God or to some supreme authority. It's the antithesis to flock-like mentality (group think) and any person who would fashion themselves as an authority over another person's life. Organized religions do this to people and are seen as slavery chosen over complete, individual freedom. As you can imagine, this sparks ideas in the minds of many who are tired of living under such authority and wish to buck the system. Anything that may be considered adversarial to the status quo or socially acceptable way of life falls under Satanism. Lucifer is a name which means, "bringer of light," or some variation of it. The symbols and figures used in Satanism are used because they shock the psyche. It is quite shocking to outsiders that the figures used are revered. Again, it's not to be confused with worship. They are revered for what they represent, rather than wholesale reverence and worship given to a "God" without much thought. Let me know if I missed anything.

Ave Satanas!