A man or a woman

[Foxglove]

Hello, Folks!

I'm rapidly coming up on my second anniversary of being out full-time, and all this while there's been a nagging question in my mind: how do people perceive me?  When they look at me, what do they see?

I've always told myself that in a way it's academic.  As long as people are treating me well (which they are), what does it matter how they perceive me?  But this is of course simplistic—because the way they perceive me will contribute enormously to the way they treat me.  If they see me as a pervert, a degenerate freak, they might treat me in one way.  If they see me as a human being (albeit a strange one), then they'll treat me otherwise.

This was a huge question two years ago when I was desperate to come out of the closet.  This is a very small town I live in, and I had no idea how people would react.  I was telling myself, "You're crazy if you think people will let you get away with this."  I was seriously considering the option of moving to a bigger town or city.

At that point I got a good idea.  Rather than just suddenly switching over, suddenly appearing among people in my new and improved persona, I could let them know in advance what I was planning to do.  I could test the water, so to speak.  I could go around to the people I knew best and explain to them what I was going to do.

But what exactly to say to them?  There was no way I could say, "I'm a woman."  Cispeople's notion of a "woman" is a "cisgender woman".  That's all they have to work with, and the people of this town knew well I wasn't a ciswoman.  If I told them I was, they'd be thinking I'd flipped my lid.

Neither did I want to tell them, "I'm a transgender woman."  Most people don't know what that is, and I would have had to embark on a long-winded explanation that few of them would have understood and even fewer would have had the patience to listen to.

So I what I ended up telling them was this: "I'm transgender and I'm going to be presenting as female."  Now this was a huge compromise and one I didn't like making.  It comes perilously close to saying, "I'm a man who likes wearing dresses."  But I thought this was the best I could do—and in fact, to my utter astonishment, everybody I spoke to was totally supportive.  So I got out and in these last two years I've had very, very few problems.

But all this time I've continued to wonder what people think when they see me.  I've always wished I could read their minds.  Today I got a pretty good answer to my question.

This afternoon I heard my doorbell and immediately knew it would be someone from the supermarket delivering my shopping.  I was a bit worried, though, because usually they knock rather than ringing the bell (the reason being that no one is sure which is my bell, given that I'm upstairs and my bell is the bottom one of the two).  I thought maybe they were ringing the bell because they'd been knocking for some time and had got no answer.

When I opened the door, I saw it was the supermarket manager himself.  On occasion he makes the deliveries rather than leaving it to the staff.  He's a man I've known well for years, and I asked him, "Were you knocking long?"

He replied, "No, I was just ringing the bell because of the rain and thought I might get a man—or a woman."  I thought this was extremely significant.

How does he perceive me?  Well, obviously he's still aware that I'm not a cisgender woman (although probably he doesn't know that term), but nonetheless he's not uncomfortable calling me "a woman".  It seems to me he's beginning to glimpse that it's more appropriate to call me a "woman" than a "man".

Now I've always felt that the way the people of this town see me might evolve with time.  And I've always felt that the way society as a whole perceives transpeople will evolve with time as more and more of us get out and they become more familiar with us.  What the man said today is a strong indication that I'm right about that.

We need to bear in mind that ->-bleeped-<- is extremely difficult for cispeople.  Their notion of gender is linked to the genitalia, and they have a very hard time seeing it in any other terms.  If you have male equipment, you're a man.  If you have female equipment, you're a woman.  For most of them it's as simple as that.

But what I saw today was a man who's beginning the process of delinking the notion of gender from the genitalia.  Your gender is how you live.  Live female, and bit by bit people become comfortable with the notion that you are female.  And suppose you're non-binary?  That one might be more difficult for them because cispeople are binary.  They have a hard time with the notion that not everyone is unambiguously male or female.  The notion that there could be something besides male and female will be a hard bridge for them to cross.

There's another thread going on this forum these days on the topic of "We need a revolution".  People, this is the revolution.  A true revolution occurs in people's hearts long before there's any fighting or marching in the streets or what have you.  We get out, we live as ourselves, and people's thinking will change.  We must be patient, because true revolutions are slow to develop.  But if you're a student of history, you're OK with that because you know that slow revolutions are lasting revolutions.

[suzifrommd]

That's so cool! I've been saying for years that what's most important is that people see you as a woman. People here obsess over their passability, but acceptance comes merely from the way people are willing to perceive you.

[Mark3]

There's another thread going on this forum these days on the topic of "We need a revolution".  People, this is the revolution.  A true revolution occurs in people's hearts long before there's any fighting or marching in the streets or what have you.  We get out, we live as ourselves, and people's thinking will change.  We must be patient, because true revolutions are slow to develop.  But if you're a student of history, you're OK with that because you know that slow revolutions are lasting revolutions.

I love this part.!
You make awesome topics Foxglove.

[Taka]

i'll insist that i'm just me. in the end i might be able to start hrt, i'm seriously hoping it will happen within the next year...

i've told a cis girl that i'm planning to take t to become manlier.
she had no problems accepting that after just assuring that i know and am fine with any side effects (downstairs growth/beard/voice).
i don't think i could ever "come out" as trans, i don't identify well with the label.

[BreezyB]

I'm starting to ask this same question Foxglove. And great post by the way.

I'm a little bit of presenting as female in the outside world, four months of HRT, hair getting longer, effeminate body language, manicured nails and brows. So I was out with my brother last night, we were having a few drinks. My brothers gay, so he has a good insight I think to observation of people's reactions. It shocked me to realise that so many people notice me now, and look.

So what are thinking? Clearly I'm not presenting as female so it can't be that. And so the my brother quite clearly pointed out that at the moment, whilst looking very feminine, I'm presenting as a feminine gay male. Hmm, well I'm heterosexual, well depends how you look at it, I'm attracted to women, so maybe I am gay lol.

So it's so interesting to hear that people do not even think I'm trans, they just assume I'm a feline gay male. So maybe if I wasn't wearing a suit and shirt, and more androgynous clothing I hope they will begin viewing me as at least androgynous.

[Foxglove]

So maybe if I wasn't wearing a suit and shirt, and more androgynous clothing I hope they will begin viewing me as at least androgynous.

Breezy, this is another interesting question you're raising here and one I've wondered about:  What effect exactly does clothing itself have on how people perceive us?

I myself am something of a girlie-girl.  I rarely wear pants, almost always in skirts.  Now I've always believed that this will help me pass, because people don't always scrutinize everyone they see very closely.  A bit of a glance, and beyond that they don't pay much attention to you.  So they see a skirt, they immediately assume "woman" and don't think any further than that.

But I can't be sure of this.  Because clothing is just one aspect of your overall presentation and mannerisms.  So how much it alone determines people's immediate impression of you is hard to say.  I think it's very important, but I could be over-estimating it.

[BreezyB]

I think your right though Foxglove, your overall appearance is important but clothes makeup such a large proportion of what people see of us, especially from a distance. I suppose much like on the face there are gender markers which scream male or female, I also beleive clothing can scream male or female. So that is why my casual clothes could be worn by either gender. But certainly once I'm presenting as female in the real world, I would be wearing my more feminine clothing, so less pants, more dresses. Plus that's just my personal preference anyway.

[Foxglove]

I'd agree with you.  Of course, this is something of a different topic from what I started with.  Right now, we're talking about the impressions people who don't know you have of you.

What I was talking about in my OP is something totally different: how the people who know you come to perceive you as time goes on, that is, how their perception evolves.  Because when people know you well, a change in appearance, even a radical one, might not alter their perception of you much.  If they've always known you as a man, they probably still think of you as a man--just a very strange one.  But as time goes on and they get used to seeing your new persona, I believe their perception of you will evolve.  At least that's what I saw in the supermarket manager a couple of days ago.

[Gina Taylor]

Hello, Folks!

I'm rapidly coming up on my second anniversary of being out full-time, and all this while there's been a nagging question in my mind: how do people perceive me?  When they look at me, what do they see?

I've always told myself that in a way it's academic.  As long as people are treating me well (which they are), what does it matter how they perceive me?  But this is of course simplistic—because the way they perceive me will contribute enormously to the way they treat me.  If they see me as a pervert, a degenerate freak, they might treat me in one way.  If they see me as a human being (albeit a strange one), then they'll treat me otherwise.

This was a huge question two years ago when I was desperate to come out of the closet.  This is a very small town I live in, and I had no idea how people would react.  I was telling myself, "You're crazy if you think people will let you get away with this."  I was seriously considering the option of moving to a bigger town or city.

At that point I got a good idea.  Rather than just suddenly switching over, suddenly appearing among people in my new and improved persona, I could let them know in advance what I was planning to do.  I could test the water, so to speak.  I could go around to the people I knew best and explain to them what I was going to do.

But what exactly to say to them?  There was no way I could say, "I'm a woman."  Cispeople's notion of a "woman" is a "cisgender woman".  That's all they have to work with, and the people of this town knew well I wasn't a ciswoman.  If I told them I was, they'd be thinking I'd flipped my lid.

Neither did I want to tell them, "I'm a transgender woman."  Most people don't know what that is, and I would have had to embark on a long-winded explanation that few of them would have understood and even fewer would have had the patience to listen to.

So I what I ended up telling them was this: "I'm transgender and I'm going to be presenting as female."  Now this was a huge compromise and one I didn't like making.  It comes perilously close to saying, "I'm a man who likes wearing dresses."  But I thought this was the best I could do—and in fact, to my utter astonishment, everybody I spoke to was totally supportive.  So I got out and in these last two years I've had very, very few problems.

But all this time I've continued to wonder what people think when they see me.  I've always wished I could read their minds.  Today I got a pretty good answer to my question.

This afternoon I heard my doorbell and immediately knew it would be someone from the supermarket delivering my shopping.  I was a bit worried, though, because usually they knock rather than ringing the bell (the reason being that no one is sure which is my bell, given that I'm upstairs and my bell is the bottom one of the two).  I thought maybe they were ringing the bell because they'd been knocking for some time and had got no answer.

When I opened the door, I saw it was the supermarket manager himself.  On occasion he makes the deliveries rather than leaving it to the staff.  He's a man I've known well for years, and I asked him, "Were you knocking long?"

He replied, "No, I was just ringing the bell because of the rain and thought I might get a man—or a woman."  I thought this was extremely significant.

How does he perceive me?  Well, obviously he's still aware that I'm not a cisgender woman (although probably he doesn't know that term), but nonetheless he's not uncomfortable calling me "a woman".  It seems to me he's beginning to glimpse that it's more appropriate to call me a "woman" than a "man".

Now I've always felt that the way the people of this town see me might evolve with time.  And I've always felt that the way society as a whole perceives transpeople will evolve with time as more and more of us get out and they become more familiar with us.  What the man said today is a strong indication that I'm right about that.

We need to bear in mind that ->-bleeped-<- is extremely difficult for cispeople.  Their notion of gender is linked to the genitalia, and they have a very hard time seeing it in any other terms.  If you have male equipment, you're a man.  If you have female equipment, you're a woman.  For most of them it's as simple as that.

But what I saw today was a man who's beginning the process of delinking the notion of gender from the genitalia.  Your gender is how you live.  Live female, and bit by bit people become comfortable with the notion that you are female.  And suppose you're non-binary?  That one might be more difficult for them because cispeople are binary.  They have a hard time with the notion that not everyone is unambiguously male or female.  The notion that there could be something besides male and female will be a hard bridge for them to cross.

There's another thread going on this forum these days on the topic of "We need a revolution".  People, this is the revolution.  A true revolution occurs in people's hearts long before there's any fighting or marching in the streets or what have you.  We get out, we live as ourselves, and people's thinking will change.  We must be patient, because true revolutions are slow to develop.  But if you're a student of history, you're OK with that because you know that slow revolutions are lasting revolutions.

Congratulations Foxglove on making it for 2 years! I've often wondered the same thing when I'm out as well. How do people perceive me. But after reading your excellent post, it reassures me that I'm doing the right thing by just being me and talking with people beforehand.

[Foxglove]

Congratulations Foxglove on making it for 2 years! I've often wondered the same thing when I'm out as well. How do people perceive me. But after reading your excellent post, it reassures me that I'm doing the right thing by just being me and talking with people beforehand.

Thanks, Gina!  Actually I was just recalling one of the librarians in our little town--not one of the regulars, one who substitutes now and then when one of the regulars is missing, but one I've seen often enough over the years.  Just recently she slipped up and called me by my old name.  I can assure you I was quite annoyed.  After you've been out for two years, you do not want to hear your old name.

But it shows the difference between her and the supermarket manager.  I see him all the time, and as I said, his perception of me seems to be evolving.  Whereas the librarian still hasn't changed her perception of me, no doubt because she doesn't see me as often as some people do.  How people perceive you can depend on a lot of factors.