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Nonbinary misgendering

Started by makipu, November 08, 2014, 12:51:18 PM

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Cindy

I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Cindy on December 05, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.

Cindy, I can only speak for myself. I do not require any recognition that I'm non-binary in the way I'm addressed. I am happy to be treated the way I present (binary female).

The problems occur when someone tries to "make me binary" or tell me that the source of whatever problem I'm dealing with has to do with the fact that I won't see myself as a binary woman.

That happened a few days ago and I'm still trying to sort out my feelings.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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JulieBlair

Cindy,
I for one cannot imagine that you would every intentionally slight anyone.  Suzi's point that addressing as to presentation works in person (mostly) but on forums it is sometimes hard to know.  I default to they and their when in doubt, or avoid pronouns altogether.  Names are nice and always work. :) 

I do think that intent is the primary driver.  Here on this forum plural pronouns are prudent, but even here, If you intend no disrespect no offence will be taken.  If you've been asked to address someone in definitive manner and that is ignored a negative reaction may be expected.  It also has to do with how well you know someone.  Satinjoy will be she to me when talking one on one and they in public.  Ativan is always gender neutral.  Aisla is the loveliest shape shifter I know and so I take environmental cues and default to neutral.  Probably not helpful but nobody said this would be clear - Nonbinary is nothing if not ambiguous.  I'm she by the way or she with a little spice. ;)

The larger point that Suzi makes is more important and has to do with validation.  We have the right to be acknowledged as ambiguously gendered.  When it is demanded by anyone that we choose one or the other hackles will rise.  That is what happened last month.  Particularly in a non-binary space, to insist that anyone conform to a binary paradigm will elicit anger at the disrespect.  Concern about the consequences notwithstanding, If I am told I must be a binary woman or that I am wrong in my personal identification, I will reject everything you have to say even if you mean well and are honestly concerned for my well being.  Just don't go there, and If you do back down quickly when I respond aggressively.

Peace,
Julie
I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.  :D
Full Time 18 June 2014
Esprit can be found at http://espritconf.com/
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Satinjoy

Flushed me out of my treehouse.

There is a thread that asks what pronoun we prefer to be used for ourselves.

Another possibility is to list it in the profile near the avatar.

Deliberate use of a pronoun to invalidate or hurt, obvously just plain foolishness, intolerable.

Accidental, well, thats typical isnt it.   Because it is individual.  They and them are the polite way usually to refer to us, to be politically correct if you do not know.

That pronoun thread should be stickied on this forum in this section.

It could potentially help others.

Most people wont read it, but it gives us an opportunity to express ourselves.

Like mine.  Sh'e, h'er.  Very unique.

We do not limit ourselves in our choices.  Its not in our nature to do so, generally, its not in mine.

I was once asked, in 15 seconds, what is a nonbinary?

To me, it is anyone that includes parts of themselves that are seen as their birth gender, and parts that are not their birth gender, and embrace these parts, internalize it and integrate it into the core of their lives.  Sometimes expressing it, sometimes hiding it, but never appologizing for it, and since this self knowledge came at a horrifying cost to many of us, when it is called rationalization or inauthentic or temporary, as a group, we get really upset.

And I will say it again.  Binaries are authentic and have the absolute and total right to be authentic binaries, that is their truth.
Nonbinaries are authentic and have the absolute and total right to be authentic nonbinaries, that is their truth.

So what the heck is the big deal with figuring that out.  The rejection of that simple statement destroyed an entire section of the forum.

Just dumb.  Total foolishness, it should never have come to that, to the loss of so much knowledge.

That knowledge, before I pop off forum again as I do now, that knowledge is in the thousands of wise posts in this section.  if you are new, search that past, learn from it.  You can ask me my thoughts if you wish, though I am not here much, and there are searches that reveal more, we all do searches on hormones and stuff. 

See through the eyes of others, think gently and kindly, set captives of fear and self loathing free.  That is what being trans is about.  That vision in here was lost.  It can be found again, by those who remain, but those who will come.  it is up to you to write the new chapters though.  You have an unwritten book, you will write your legacies, and they will remain for future generations to learn from, to judge, to expand.  That is your destiny if you read in this or any other section, you life touches others, it is up to you whether you wish to touch for good, or for the creation of pain.  Your words will remain either way, even if they did not, the memories will remain.

Write your legacies well, wisely. 

I will drop in, from time to time, but not very much.  My words are in here in other places, other pages, they may help you.  I leave a legacy, but I do remain, just, not very much.  I lost my friends in here, except for a few.

Cindy is a friend...she is binary, she is a friend.... I have binary friends...nice ones, leaving legacies....

What legacy will you leave, my friends, as you write your name in the sands of time?

Blessings.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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Tessa James

Quote from: Cindy on December 05, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.

Cindy you continue to earn my respect and admiration for being relatively fearless.  That you are asking the question here suggests you recognize the pain and confusion some of us feel.  It seems we will each have individual answers with some being nicely unique while no one can speak for the whole.  I doubt we will remember to use all of them.  I misgender myself sometimes LOL and blame it on decades of referring to myself as a guy.  I honestly aspire to not caring how I am gendered but I'm not there yet.  What is clear to me is how I feel about my gender which is female but with full acceptance of the fact i lived and socialized as a man for way too long.

In my case I also admit to some minor residual resentment for being told some 20 years ago I had no business even trying transition because I did not act feminine enough and/or share the formulaic mantra of "i am a woman in a mans body."  I resent my own fear that chained me to a secret.  I have experienced people IRL and here who question my intentions, integrity and effort with a series of unsolicited tips for achieving their stereotypically OK presentation. 

One reason I am here is for solidarity and the non binary folks have generated more of that for me.  The truth is that I was born and primarily considered a boy and man for all but 2 years in a 63 year lifespan.  It seems to takes an ongoing and major declarative announcement for people to get that i feel female regardless of how i appear, act or sound.  That was true before i transitioned and will be true till my expiration.  Gender identity is distinct from gendered behavior or appearance and you would think we could all remember that is where we all started.

Thank you for asking Cindy you are great girlfriend to me.   She and her feel best and the rest works too.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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VeronicaLynn

I love it when people correctly gender me as a girl despite my mostly masculine presentation, even on my more masculine feeling days. I think a lot more people think it and don't do so because they think I might be offended...

I can't really get mad that most don't, since I look like a guy to most people in person. If someone called me anything other than she, here or anywhere else online I was using the name Veronica Lynn or something similar I might be though. I purposely chose it in part because it is clearly not a unisex name, though I do sometimes wish I did have a unisex name.
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Cindy

Thank you :-*

I feel humbled.

I would never intentionally misgender anyone, and neither will my staff, but we make mistakes at times, a gentle reminder is all that is needed. No offense is ever meant.
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Satinjoy

Keep making a difference dear.

Lot of pain in this section, it gets compounded unintentionally by others.  Not that our pain is worse than anyone elses, but it gets hair trigger sometimes.

HAH!  I said hair trigger.  My hair triggers me all the time when I am not wearing it.

I am Satinjoy by the way, I picked up a lot of Ativan's writing style.  Because it is effective communication.

But they rubbed off on me.  It is one reason I still am breathing....

But it is commendable Cindy that you are pushing for respect for us.

Best regards my dear.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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