looking forward to division day (rejected, despairing)

[ElioAyla]

So I tried to talk to my fiance about my gender and how I want to be seen by society, and he got upset and bailed to go walk the dog. I feel betrayed and sad. I told him when we very first met 5 and a half years ago that I was trans, genderqueer, somewhere between a man and a woman, but with a strong desire to present as male in day to day life. He knew this from the beginning. He basically told me he was sapiosexual (attracted to a person's mind/intellect as opposed to their body).

I told him I wanted to use the name my parents would have used if I had been born male. He knew that from day 6.

He is okay-ish with me taking T, but is turned off by the idea of me having facial hair (i dont really care to have any myself, but i want the hair on the rest of me and sideburns). He also stated that he would leave me if I ever had top surgery. This crushed my heart. And now I am supposed to paste on a smile and try to be loving and tender knowing that if I made the decision somewhere down the line that I wanted to have a cosmetic surgery, that he would leave me. At least he's straight up about it.

At least he has the balls to tell me what's up.
I know how I want to be, but I feel so selfish. I have a boy that loves me and a dog and my grandma and I know I'll be ->-bleeped-<-ing everyone over if I do what I want to do to make myself feel comfortable. I just drink my pain away and sink into oblivion and depression because I can't succeed in life as a woman (it just doesn't seem right to me - of course maybe I am just convincing myself of this). And if my lover is a heterosexual, and he just wants a woman, well, I'm wrong for him in that case. Because I will never be just a woman. I can't just edit my core being, the essential components that make me Me.

Man, I just want a body that makes sense to me.

And I wish I had known my fiance, my life partner, was actually not nearly as into masculine people sexually as he led me to believe. I feel trapped, foolish and utterly alone.

I really need a hug and a good party with a bunch of queer folks at a punk show or a rave, but I guess I'll have to settle for getting drunk and trying to forget I have a body. 

[Dread_Faery]

Hugs... Lots and lots of them.

[ErinWDK]

So I tried to talk to my fiance about my gender and how I want to be seen by society, and he got upset and bailed to go walk the dog. I feel betrayed and sad. I told him when we very first met 5 and a half years ago that I was trans, genderqueer, somewhere between a man and a woman, but with a strong desire to present as male in day to day life. He knew this from the beginning. He basically told me he was sapiosexual (attracted to a person's mind/intellect as opposed to their body).

I told him I wanted to use the name my parents would have used if I had been born male. He knew that from day 6.

He is okay-ish with me taking T, but is turned off by the idea of me having facial hair (i dont really care to have any myself, but i want the hair on the rest of me and sideburns). He also stated that he would leave me if I ever had top surgery. This crushed my heart. And now I am supposed to paste on a smile and try to be loving and tender knowing that if I made the decision somewhere down the line that I wanted to have a cosmetic surgery, that he would leave me. At least he's straight up about it.

At least he has the balls to tell me what's up.
I know how I want to be, but I feel so selfish. I have a boy that loves me and a dog and my grandma and I know I'll be ->-bleeped-<-ing everyone over if I do what I want to do to make myself feel comfortable. I just drink my pain away and sink into oblivion and depression because I can't succeed in life as a woman (it just doesn't seem right to me - of course maybe I am just convincing myself of this). And if my lover is a heterosexual, and he just wants a woman, well, I'm wrong for him in that case. Because I will never be just a woman. I can't just edit my core being, the essential components that make me Me.
Man, I just want a body that makes sense to me.

And I wish I had known my fiance, my life partner, was actually not nearly as into masculine people sexually as he led me to believe. I feel trapped, foolish and utterly alone.

I really need a hug and a good party with a bunch of queer folks at a punk show or a rave, but I guess I'll have to settle for getting drunk and trying to forget I have a body. 

The part I bolded jumps out at me.  This is truth.  As you get older these issues will get stronger.  You are going to have to find a way to speak with your finace really soon or things will just get worse.  I know, not what you wanted to hear...

All I can really offer is cyber hugs!


Erin

[ElioAyla]

He hates me for telling him who I am.
I could never raise a child. he says. i know i could.
My identity does not exist to him.
I am vapor

[adrian]

Sending lots of hugs your way!

[helen2010]

Hugs .... Sometimes partners honestly believe what they say but faced with the reality they often recant.  It hurts.  It feels so unfair.  In time I hope that you can forgive them, so that you can move on and live the life that you deserve and is waiting for you.

Safe travels

Aisla

[Ariel Renée]

I know your pain.  I tried to talk to my girlfriend about my gender issues and told me i was gay and wanted to sleep with men.  I tried to explain to her is not about my sexuality, I am still into her...She still turns me on, but i just feel that i am meant to be a woman instead of a man.  Im worried she is going to hurt herself.  She was already unstable and now she is going off the deep end...Please send prayers and hugs my way as well friends.

[fairview]

The wave or punk thing isn't me but I'd be willing to slam a few with you and then shovel you back into your place with a possible few incriminating pics to share with you after the hangover abated the next day to fill in the gaps from the prior night's excessiveness.   

I'm not going to tell you what you know to be true but don't want to hear right now.  Blah, Blah, Blah.........

When people are sharing their ideas they can be either talking or communicating.  When people talk there is no understanding, politicians are pros at this.  Communicating results in a common understanding.  Between a couple both can be talking or communicating or one may be talking and the other communicating.  It seems to me your relationship moved to both of you communicating and sharing a common albeit disappointing understanding.  You know who you are.  It took me nearly all my life to get that answer.  I'm 56 and 35 years of that have been in a marriage that had I known who I was then, I probably would have a satisfying, fun and dynamic marriage than this pos marriage I have.

I have to give the loser credit, he finally came clean and found the brass to start communicating with you which he should have done from day one or just perhaps he figured out who he was.  Either way as I see it, neither one of you will be sitting in the same room 35 years from now unhappily wondering, 'Just how did I get to this point.  Oh well I'm too old and it's to late now to start over.'

This too shall pass.

And if my lover is a heterosexual, and he just wants a woman, well, I'm wrong for him in that case. Because I will never be just a woman. I can't just edit my core being, the essential components that make me Me.

Man, I just want a body that makes sense to me.

And I wish I had known my fiance, my life partner, was actually not nearly as into masculine people sexually as he led me to believe. I feel trapped, foolish and utterly alone.

I went back and reread your post and I am going to use your words above with some slight changes to communicate my outcome which could very well be yours:

My wife is a heterosexual and she just wants a man.  After over 30 years of marriage I discovered I am wrong for her because I never was nor can I ever be just a man.  I just wish I had an inside that matched my outside, gender aside.  I wish I had known who I was 35 years ago because my wife, my life partner cannot tolerate any type of expressed femininity from me.  I feel we are trapped, foolish and utterly alone when we are sitting in the same room or sleeping in the same bed. 

[EchelonHunt]

I once dated a man who ID as sapiosexual, he said he was open and accepting of transgender and gender variant folks. Straight away, he told me if I had top surgery, he would not be interested in me anymore because he is heterosexual; he likes his women to have breasts. Problem was, I was not a woman, with breasts or without. Needless to say, that conversation quickly killed any chances of a relationship blossoming. He is now very happy and in a relationship with a heterosexual female.

You need to find someone who will accept and love you for who you are, body and soul. Perhaps he will change and realize that breasts are just breasts and that he may find out he loves you for your personality, rather than your body. There are some people who identify as lesbian and they stay with their transman partners, because they fell in love with the person, not their body. Maybe your partner will be like that, maybe not.

Keep the lines of communication open, as hard as it may be, the discussion between two adults has probably been overdue for quite some time. I understand the feeling of being lied to, the questions of "Why didn't he mention it at the beginning?" It probably would have solved a lot of problems beforehand but thinking over the "what ifs" won't help your current situation. The best thing you can do is work on what you can do now.

[Taka]

either you have a boy who loves you, or you have a boy who loves a woman with your personality.
they're not really the same unfortunately, but only you can find out which one it is.

i hope you manage to sort things out without too much heartbreak.
before it's way too late.

until then, you can have my hugs.
well... you can really get my hugs any time.

[helen2010]

....When people are sharing their ideas they can be either talking or communicating.  When people talk there is no understanding, politicians are pros at this.  Communicating results in a common understanding.  Between a couple both can be talking or communicating or one may be talking and the other communicating.  It seems to me your relationship moved to both of you communicating and sharing a common albeit disappointing understanding.  You know who you are.  It took me nearly all my life to get that answer.  I'm 56 and 35 years of that have been in a marriage that had I known who I was then, I probably would have a satisfying, fun and dynamic marriage than this pos marriage I have ....

My wife is a heterosexual and she just wants a man.  After over 30 years of marriage I discovered I am wrong for her because I never was nor can I ever be just a man.  I just wish I had an inside that matched my outside, gender aside.  I wish I had known who I was 35 years ago because my wife, my life partner cannot tolerate any type of expressed femininity from me.  I feel we are trapped, foolish and utterly alone when we are sitting in the same room or sleeping in the same bed.

Fairview

I was struck by your comments and thought I would share my experience which may or may not apply to your situation.  My wife is also unashamedly heterosexual.  Our relationship was one built on her feelings for a phlegmatic, successful, driven, ex military, alpha male etc  She will not stay if I ever choose to physically and socially (full time and binary) transition.  Perhaps because I identify as non binary and our communication skills have improved over our journey, it has been less problematic than it has been for you

Until I shared my hurt and my sense of invalidation and the lack of respect that I felt from her; and until I said that I could not see a future for us if this continued, nothing changed.  Until this point she had been critical, unsupportive and increasingly distant and judgemental, almost as though she was watching with some distaste an unnecessary and self indulgent catharsis.  Once she realised that I hurt (this was new for her, as I had a carefully constructed, strong, silent type, male persona), really hurt, and that she had to choose 'us' and 'me' or else face a separate life, there was little change and certainly no progress.  After a day of tears, she said that she had decided, that she 'chose us'.

Without real and authentic,  2 way communication we could not have achieved a real understanding of each other, and of the choices facing us.  Real 2 way communication does not always exist, and as a male my communications skills were in fact, quite poor.  Certainly my ability to express and communicate my fears, needs, feelings etc was bordering on incompetent.  Under stress I was almost dysfunctional; talking but not empathising or communicating.  Once I developed some competence in communicating, it created the possibility for real understanding and a new relationship.  So far, so good and whereas I had always believed that we would need to separate, both of us do not see this as likely.  Either way, we now have a fighting chance and I no longer feel trapped and alone in a marriage, and in a relationship, where I did not experience love, validation or respect.

Safe travels

Aisla

[JulieBlair]

I haven't spent much time on the forums lately, but this thread touches me. 

ElioAyla, I wish getting drunk and forgetting I had a body worked.  It doesn't, at least not for very long. I think you know that eventually when you crawl back out of the bottle the pain is still there, and communicating has stopped.  Ultimately you both have to seek and follow authentic lives.  If that means accepting that they diverge, it doesn't mean angry disgust.  Somehow I know you will be a loving parent, I know your partner will either accept you as you are or will find someone who can fill his primary needs.  Yours are to be you! And they must be or it will kill you.  Either by neglect or by your own hand.  It very nearly killed me.

Fairview you and many others here have told me my story with infinite variation.  To live with, and sleep with, someone who not only disdains who you are, but is abjectly appalled by any and all femininity "from her man" is devastating and  demoralizing.  I love and admire Aisla, but they have navigated a strait so narrow, so filled with pinnacles, that it is amazing, rare, and joyful to see them emerge whole and well.  Not my story.  Maybe not yours either. "After over 30 years of marriage I discovered I am wrong for her because I never was nor can I ever be just a man."  Would you want to be even if you could?  For a time I not only desperately wanted that, but was willing to destroy myself to get there.

I am no longer willing to die on the alter of a failed relationship.  I am worth more, I will have more, I will give more.  Getting divorced sucks.  Losing your love sucks.  There are other, better words, but they won't let me use them here and that is a good thing.  Never-the-less I am worth being loved for the transgender person that I am.  I am willing to seek and to find joy, to cherish and to be cherished.  I am willing to travel, learn, try for as long as it takes, and for as far spiritually as I have to go.  That, for me, is what transition is ultimately all about.  To be authentic, to be honest with myself and with all I meet.  To be willing to fail because ultimately I will succeed.  That mindset changes everything and make anything possible. Even for a trans-sexual queer like me.

Peace,
Julie

[adrian]

I apologize for hijacking this thread but I wanted to say thank you, Aisla, for telling your story and giving me a little bit of hope that somehow, somewhere there is a possibility I will not lose my husband.

Fairview

I was struck by your comments and thought I would share my experience which may or may not apply to your situation.  My wife is also unashamedly heterosexual.  Our relationship was one built on her feelings for a phlegmatic, successful, driven, ex military, alpha male etc  She will not stay if I ever choose to physically and socially (full time and binary) transition.  Perhaps because I identify as non binary and our communication skills have improved over our journey, it has been less problematic than it has been for you

Until I shared my hurt and my sense of invalidation and the lack of respect that I felt from her; and until I said that I could not see a future for us if this continued, nothing changed.  Until this point she had been critical, unsupportive and increasingly distant and judgemental, almost as though she was watching with some distaste an unnecessary and self indulgent catharsis.  Once she realised that I hurt (this was new for her, as I had a carefully constructed, strong, silent type, male persona), really hurt, and that she had to choose 'us' and 'me' or else face a separate life, there was little change and certainly no progress.  After a day of tears, she said that she had decided, that she 'chose us'.

Without real and authentic,  2 way communication we could not have achieved a real understanding of each other, and of the choices facing us.  Real 2 way communication does not always exist, and as a male my communications skills were in fact, quite poor.  Certainly my ability to express and communicate my fears, needs, feelings etc was bordering on incompetent.  Under stress I was almost dysfunctional; talking but not empathising or communicating.  Once I developed some competence in communicating, it created the possibility for real understanding and a new relationship.  So far, so good and whereas I had always believed that we would need to separate, both of us do not see this as likely.  Either way, we now have a fighting chance and I no longer feel trapped and alone in a marriage, and in a relationship, where I did not experience love, validation or respect.

Safe travels

Aisla

[ElioAyla]

The wave or punk thing isn't me but I'd be willing to slam a few with you and then shovel you back into your place with a possible few incriminating pics to share with you after the hangover abated the next day to fill in the gaps from the prior night's excessiveness.   

I'm not going to tell you what you know to be true but don't want to hear right now.  Blah, Blah, Blah.........

When people are sharing their ideas they can be either talking or communicating.  When people talk there is no understanding, politicians are pros at this.  Communicating results in a common understanding.  Between a couple both can be talking or communicating or one may be talking and the other communicating.  It seems to me your relationship moved to both of you communicating and sharing a common albeit disappointing understanding.  You know who you are.  It took me nearly all my life to get that answer.  I'm 56 and 35 years of that have been in a marriage that had I known who I was then, I probably would have a satisfying, fun and dynamic marriage than this pos marriage I have.

I have to give the loser credit, he finally came clean and found the brass to start communicating with you which he should have done from day one or just perhaps he figured out who he was.  Either way as I see it, neither one of you will be sitting in the same room 35 years from now unhappily wondering, 'Just how did I get to this point.  Oh well I'm too old and it's to late now to start over.'

This too shall pass.

I went back and reread your post and I am going to use your words above with some slight changes to communicate my outcome which could very well be yours:

My wife is a heterosexual and she just wants a man.  After over 30 years of marriage I discovered I am wrong for her because I never was nor can I ever be just a man.  I just wish I had an inside that matched my outside, gender aside.  I wish I had known who I was 35 years ago because my wife, my life partner cannot tolerate any type of expressed femininity from me.  I feel we are trapped, foolish and utterly alone when we are sitting in the same room or sleeping in the same bed.

i have been thinking about that some during the day, about my life 30 years from now. All I can think about it traveling, getting back on the road and just roaming. So getting locked into a routine, it would crush me, and I think that's half the problem with my relationship. we've been getting along really well, so hopefully he'll accept me as I am as I transition.

I once dated a man who ID as sapiosexual, he said he was open and accepting of transgender and gender variant folks. Straight away, he told me if I had top surgery, he would not be interested in me anymore because he is heterosexual; he likes his women to have breasts. Problem was, I was not a woman, with breasts or without. Needless to say, that conversation quickly killed any chances of a relationship blossoming. He is now very happy and in a relationship with a heterosexual female.

You need to find someone who will accept and love you for who you are, body and soul. Perhaps he will change and realize that breasts are just breasts and that he may find out he loves you for your personality, rather than your body. There are some people who identify as lesbian and they stay with their transman partners, because they fell in love with the person, not their body. Maybe your partner will be like that, maybe not.

Keep the lines of communication open, as hard as it may be, the discussion between two adults has probably been overdue for quite some time. I understand the feeling of being lied to, the questions of "Why didn't he mention it at the beginning?" It probably would have solved a lot of problems beforehand but thinking over the "what ifs" won't help your current situation. The best thing you can do is work on what you can do now.

The funny thing is, I don't desire top surgery. Not now. But just the fact that he would leave if I did it (his reasoning was that it would mean I was crazy for having an elective surgery - he has suspicion of the medical industry...) makes me kind of sad and feeling disappointed. I would still love him if he wanted to have breast implants or bottom surgery. The fact that it isn't a mutual thing makes me disheartened and I do feel betrayed.
All I can do now is continue to bring it up, but I'm not going to lay into him about it. I'm chill.  I got some time. I'm figuring out if I want to get a degree, and what to do with my life, so this can wait is an easy tactic to avoid discussing it. But I know it needs to be dealt with.
I am not sure how much my feelings of betrayal stem more from his denying my identity, or not loving me as much as I love him. Man. I feel like a chump.

either you have a boy who loves you, or you have a boy who loves a woman with your personality.
they're not really the same unfortunately, but only you can find out which one it is.

i hope you manage to sort things out without too much heartbreak.
before it's way too late.

until then, you can have my hugs.
well... you can really get my hugs any time.

it's already way too late, but i appreciate the sentiment.
we have been through hell together, saved each other's lives a few times, and had each other's backs for the past 5 years.
hearts break. it's life right?
mine's already broken, i think that ->-bleeped-<-s running on pure bliss energy at this point. 
and thanks for the hugs.

[ElioAyla]

Fairview

I was struck by your comments and thought I would share my experience which may or may not apply to your situation.  My wife is also unashamedly heterosexual.  Our relationship was one built on her feelings for a phlegmatic, successful, driven, ex military, alpha male etc  She will not stay if I ever choose to physically and socially (full time and binary) transition.  Perhaps because I identify as non binary and our communication skills have improved over our journey, it has been less problematic than it has been for you

Until I shared my hurt and my sense of invalidation and the lack of respect that I felt from her; and until I said that I could not see a future for us if this continued, nothing changed.  Until this point she had been critical, unsupportive and increasingly distant and judgemental, almost as though she was watching with some distaste an unnecessary and self indulgent catharsis.  Once she realised that I hurt (this was new for her, as I had a carefully constructed, strong, silent type, male persona), really hurt, and that she had to choose 'us' and 'me' or else face a separate life, there was little change and certainly no progress.  After a day of tears, she said that she had decided, that she 'chose us'.

Without real and authentic,  2 way communication we could not have achieved a real understanding of each other, and of the choices facing us.  Real 2 way communication does not always exist, and as a male my communications skills were in fact, quite poor.  Certainly my ability to express and communicate my fears, needs, feelings etc was bordering on incompetent.  Under stress I was almost dysfunctional; talking but not empathising or communicating.  Once I developed some competence in communicating, it created the possibility for real understanding and a new relationship.  So far, so good and whereas I had always believed that we would need to separate, both of us do not see this as likely.  Either way, we now have a fighting chance and I no longer feel trapped and alone in a marriage, and in a relationship, where I did not experience love, validation or respect.

Safe travels

Aisla

that sounds beautiful, i hope it goes that way for me.
but ya know
so goes it, however it goes.
thanks for making me feel hope that i will be loved for me as me....

I haven't spent much time on the forums lately, but this thread touches me. 

ElioAyla, I wish getting drunk and forgetting I had a body worked.  It doesn't, at least not for very long. I think you know that eventually when you crawl back out of the bottle the pain is still there, and communicating has stopped.  Ultimately you both have to seek and follow authentic lives.  If that means accepting that they diverge, it doesn't mean angry disgust.  Somehow I know you will be a loving parent, I know your partner will either accept you as you are or will find someone who can fill his primary needs.  Yours are to be you! And they must be or it will kill you.  Either by neglect or by your own hand.  It very nearly killed me.

Fairview you and many others here have told me my story with infinite variation.  To live with, and sleep with, someone who not only disdains who you are, but is abjectly appalled by any and all femininity "from her man" is devastating and  demoralizing.  I love and admire Aisla, but they have navigated a strait so narrow, so filled with pinnacles, that it is amazing, rare, and joyful to see them emerge whole and well.  Not my story.  Maybe not yours either. "After over 30 years of marriage I discovered I am wrong for her because I never was nor can I ever be just a man."  Would you want to be even if you could?  For a time I not only desperately wanted that, but was willing to destroy myself to get there.

I am no longer willing to die on the alter of a failed relationship.  I am worth more, I will have more, I will give more.  Getting divorced sucks.  Losing your love sucks.  There are other, better words, but they won't let me use them here and that is a good thing.  Never-the-less I am worth being loved for the transgender person that I am.  I am willing to seek and to find joy, to cherish and to be cherished.  I am willing to travel, learn, try for as long as it takes, and for as far spiritually as I have to go.  That, for me, is what transition is ultimately all about.  To be authentic, to be honest with myself and with all I meet.  To be willing to fail because ultimately I will succeed.  That mindset changes everything and make anything possible. Even for a trans-sexual queer like me.

Peace,
Julie

Yeah...part of my quest has always been to live as authentically and raw as possible. I am beginning to find pride in different aspects of my identity, something that hasn't really happened for a long, long time for me. I feel as though I absolutely must act in the interest of being true to myself first, or I will burn everything that tries to dissuade me.
So if he leaves, he leaves. I'll be here to love him as the person that I am.
I don't think it helps that I'm poly, which I've known since before I met him, and talked to him about.
I think he just takes the things he doesn't like that I say and ignores them.
On the up side, I'm young (22) and we both have long lives ahead of us to figure out what's really important. I know I'm going to pursue a career that allows me to travel (because I can't not travel) and maybe when I'm gone for a few months he'll remember he loves me for more than my body and will accept me more fully....
I'm such a mess of hormones and angst and ennui.

[Taka]

hmm... yeah, you're young.
i think my older brother got his now ex girlfriend about as early in his life as you found your boy.
it ended after 23 years, because he finally had to decide that she couldn't give him what he needed in order to be happy, and instead took some of those things away from him. relationships often end because the two people, one or both, can't seem to walk comfortably on the same path through life, and find out that the paths they need to walk don't even intersect often enough to make it work.

traveling sounds great.
i always wanted to be a sailor, but gave up the thought when i learned how unromantic modern sailoring has become.
my aunt had a lot of fun as a sailor in her youth, but those times will probably never come again with how this world keeps developing.
right now i'm stuck with a kid, can't uproot her just for the sake of my own pleasure, so if i finally find a way to travel, it will be after she's started high school at least.