Are crossdressers demonized in the TG community?

[Melissa]

First of all, I have no problems with CDs.  As far as I'm concerned, anybody can dress how they want to.

I do not consider TS and CD similar though.  An TS and CD both wear female clothes, but that's where the similarity ends.  A CD is still a man (perhaps feminine, but still a man, otherwise they would be TS), whereas an TS is a woman who desperately needs to change her body and life to a female one, because that is her mental gender.

I have a theory on why CDs are treated like they are by some TS.  Many times while transitioning, TS are mistaken for crossdressers, which they consider an attack on their internal gender, since CDs are men.  The frustration at being thought of as a CD (a man), rather than a woman is what will cause these TS to develop a dislike for CDs.  I think the fact that the CD didn't have to go through the same anguish the TS did--wanting to wear women's clothing and not being able to does not qualify as "anguish", just inconvenience--coupled with jealousy of somebody who does not have (nor comprehend) their own suffering and the fact that people's general misunderstandings of the differences between the groups (which has been demonstrated already) serves to only make transitioning harder causes the TS to lash out at the CD.  In all honesty though, a TS that does this has their own unresolved problems and it should not be taken personally by that CD.

*By TS, I am referring to an MtF TS.

[TheBattler]

  I think the fact that the CD didn't have to go through the same anguish the TS did--wanting to wear women's clothing and not being able to does not qualify as "anguish", just inconvenience--coupled with jealousy of somebody who does not have (nor comprehend) their own suffering and the fact that people's general misunderstandings of the differences between the groups (which has been demonstrated already) serves to only make transitioning harder causes the TS to lash out at the CD.  In all honesty though, a TS that does this has their own unresolved problems and it should not be taken personally by that CD.

*By TS, I am referring to an MtF TS.

Gee - I did not suffer anguish?

/rant
I have been wondering if I am male or female for so long now - I wish I knew what it is like to be nornmal. I grew up thinking I was male but now I am just unsure. Lucky I have my anti-depression meds to keep me sane while I figure out why someone who consisders himself male needs to transistion because it is inconvenant to be wearing female cloths with a male body.
/end rant

Alice

[ChildOfTheLight]

/rant
I have been wondering if I am male or female for so long now - I wish I knew what it is like to be nornmal. I grew up thinking I was male but now I am just unsure. Lucky I have my anti-depression meds to keep me sane while I figure out why someone who consisders himself male needs to transistion because it is inconvenant to be wearing female cloths with a male body.
/end rant

Eh.  I do it all the time.

[Melissa]

Gee - I did not suffer anguish?

/rant
I have been wondering if I am male or female for so long now - I wish I knew what it is like to be nornmal. I grew up thinking I was male but now I am just unsure. Lucky I have my anti-depression meds to keep me sane while I figure out why someone who consisders himself male needs to transistion because it is inconvenant to be wearing female cloths with a male body.
/end rant

Alice

Honestly, this sounds more like an androgyne experience than a CD.  CDs *know* they are male.

[Suzy]

1. I don't enjoy anything about being male
2. I want to alter my body permanently
3. I am not motivated to do this from sexual turn on
In those ways we are different. I don't want to look like a woman, I want to be a woman. All the time.
Love always,
Elizabeth

1 - Ok cross dresses generly do not mind being male - some do however much prefer they where female
3 - Do not generlise - there are many reasons for cross dressing. I am gettig ready for a ball this weekend. I am not cross dressing fo a turn on - I am trying to find out as much as possible about myself.
Alice

I think these two posts are a wonderful example of the difference.  Dressing female may be, in some ways, a sensual experience for me.  It is not sexual.  It just feels so soothing and so right.  I simply must spend as much time in that role as I can squeeze in. 

I have had many contacts with cross-dressers, and made some wonderful friendships.  We share ideas and enjoy each other.  But we also realize that there is a fundamental difference.  I don't want to be feminine.  I want to be female, hopefully permanently one day.  Some don't mind the Max Klinger approach, and that is cool.  But I personally would be horrified to be seen as a dude-in-a-dress.  That's just who I am.  It is not a judgment.

That being said, I am sickened and repulsed at anything resembling a hierarchy in this community.  I realize I've probably shot my mouth off about it too much and I won't do it again here.  The only ranking system I endorse is the one where those who see themselves as better than the rest and on the very bottom rung of the ladder.

Kristi

[Shana A]

I am only going to say this once.  There is nothing wrong with a man in a dress. I think I've seen some young men wearing obviously feminine clothing lately. Maybe the future will get better.  Maybe good enough that a man in a dress won't be sneered at or put down by anybody.


I guess this rant was brought to you by my sense of indignation.  Harrumph! 

Agreed, the only thing wrong with a man in a dress is the negative responses that said person receives from society, when instead they should be getting complements on their fabulous fashion sense 

Zythyra

[tinkerbell]

Hmmmm....according to what I have read, there seems to be a distinction between cross-dressers and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Cross Dressers: Men who enjoy the wearing and the feel of women's clothing.

->-bleeped-<-s: Men who are sexually aroused by wearing women's clothing.

Also:

Cross Dresser (CD) - There's some confusion over whether this is any different from a ->-bleeped-<- but the term tends to be applied more to those who like to wear womens' clothes but who aren't fussed about putting on make-up or 'passing'.
->-bleeped-<- (TV) - Someone who likes to dress up in womens' clothes with the aim of looking like a woman.

However this link shows a different POV.

Myths of Transvestism


tink

[Laurry]

While I wish it were not so, it does seem that a lot of times CDs are treated as second-class citizens by the TG community.  The terms "man in a dress" and "just a CD" are offensive and anyone saying them to or about another person should be reprimanded.

Just my opinion.

Honestly, some of the lines between CD and Androgyne, and Androgyne and TS do get a little blurry when one starts picking nits.  What is it, you meet 7 or more out of 10 key points and, since 70% is passing, you get to add the other label to your personal resume?  What a bunch of hooey!

People are people, no matter how they choose to present themselves or what they choose to be called.  Laura had it right when she said:

People are people, if you are a good person then that is great. If you are a bad person then well...you s--k.

And anyone who has read Alice's posts, and still has the cajones to say zie hasn't been through anguish...What kind of drugs are you taking?  Alice is one of my heroes and hir open and honest sharing of hir struggles has been a source of comfort and hope for me.

.......Laurry

[TheBattler]

Gee - I did not suffer anguish?

/rant
I have been wondering if I am male or female for so long now - I wish I knew what it is like to be nornmal. I grew up thinking I was male but now I am just unsure. Lucky I have my anti-depression meds to keep me sane while I figure out why someone who consisders himself male needs to transistion because it is inconvenant to be wearing female cloths with a male body.
/end rant

Alice

Honestly, this sounds more like an androgyne experience than a CD.  CDs *know* they are male.

Hmm - Androgyne like to dress so it is hard to determine their gender. I dress as either male (when at work etc) or female. I thought you would of said it is an experience before you relise you are TS. For all intense and purposes it looks as if I am going to at least try HRT in the future just to see where I stand. But for now I consider myself a cross dresser with lot of anguish (depression, suicidal etc).

Alice

[Lisbeth]

Perhaps we need more men in dresses that are aware of and concerned about women's issues.

I think the same could also be said of a number of people who call themselves transsexuals.

[RebeccaFog]

Gee - I did not suffer anguish?

/rant
I have been wondering if I am male or female for so long now - I wish I knew what it is like to be nornmal. I grew up thinking I was male but now I am just unsure. Lucky I have my anti-depression meds to keep me sane while I figure out why someone who consisders himself male needs to transistion because it is inconvenant to be wearing female cloths with a male body.
/end rant

Alice

Honestly, this sounds more like an androgyne experience than a CD.  CDs *know* they are male.

I'm thinking the same thing.  It's sometimes a tough decision to come to.  It may not even be a decision. 6.1% of people on this site believe androgyne is

A place of safety while working out Gender issues.

Don't feel bad, Alice.  There is a place for you.  If you'd like to explore the androgyne possibility, it really would be a good place for you to get to know yourself without imposing constraints upon yourself.  At some point, you will be more readily equipped to understand whether you are CD, TS, or a mutt, like me.   


Rebis

[Melissa]

For all intense and purposes it looks as if I am going to at least try HRT in the future just to see where I stand. But for now I consider myself a cross dresser with lot of anguish (depression, suicidal etc).

Ok, whatever works for you.  It's just that I've followed you on your journey and your experience sounds nothing like any CDs I've known.   What really shocked me was when I heard a few of the ones I knew proudly declare themselves to be men in dresses.   I just absolutely could not fathom being proud of that.

[TheBattler]

Ok, whatever works for you.  It's just that I've followed you on your journey and your experience sounds nothing like any CDs I've known.   What really shocked me was when I heard a few of the ones I knew proudly declare themselves to be men in dresses.   I just absolutely could not fathom being proud of that.

I am trying to work out where I fit - I do relise that many CDs would never contemplate HRT. I have gone to a few otrher chat sites and some CDs do relise they are TS and transistion (could be my future), and some seam to be happy where they are and hence have no reason to transision.

What is your experience with CDs. What do the CDs you know do?

(yes - I am still learning as well).

Alice

[Suzy]

Alice, the "true" CDs I have met are repulsed by the idea of transitioning and especially of SRS.  One told me last week:  "Good God, no!  I still want to have my fun."

[tinkerbell]

Alice, the "true" CDs I have met are repulsed by the idea of transitioning and especially of SRS.  One told me last week:  "Good God, no!  I still want to have my fun."

I will repeat what Lisbeth said:

I'm afraid that the same can be said about some people who call themselves "transsexual".

tink

[Melissa]

What is your experience with CDs. What do the CDs you know do?

Most of my experience with CDs is through my support group.  I did go up to a TG conference this past May where there were hundreds of CDs and TS.  The difference was quite apparent.  Now, I certainly don't claim to be an expert or even claim that I really understand CDs, but I can offer my observations.  CDs always seem to have the most blissful expressions when I see them as if they are living out their greatest fantasy.  I have rarely seen happier people.  TS's on the other hand, tend to take their transitions and womanhood much more seriously and are usually much more reserved.

[TheBattler]

I just want to be comfortable in my own skin and not have depression. I recognise being female would be a better fit given my likes ETC - but at the same time I have never hated being male. If someone gave me a way to live life as a male without depression and without me breaking down as before I would take it. No-one has told me what to do to make that options a reality.

And another thing - before I did not mind wearing my skirt arround my house without a wig. Now I need to put on a wig - I do not want to be 'hey guy in a skirt' hence different. I have had my times in a skirt where I do feel so happy I have a smile for ear to ear. That is what worries me - I am to happy like that - like it was ment to be - hense I wonder if I am CD or TS. From what I know a lots of CDs go throught this - some become TS and some find their comfort level. But it is a turbulent time in their lives while they figure out their place.

Alice

[Kate]

But if...

I recognise being female would be a better fit

Then why do you say...

If someone gave me a way to live life as a male without depression and without me breaking down as before I would take it.

[Suzy]

Kate,
I can only assume it is because she already has the body to match.

Kristi

[Megan]

Perhaps we need more men in dresses that are aware of and concerned about women's issues.

I think the same could also be said of a number of people who call themselves transsexuals.

I was going to post something about that but I restrained myself. 

TSs that work with women and hang out with women are going to have a hard time not becoming aware of women's issues, and if they are living as women then they are going to be personally concerned with those issues too, I would think. The ones I know that make me roll my eyes aren't doing any of that, I don't think.

With the "straight" CDs I know, the pressure they feel to stay closeted or semi-closeted is connected to women's issues, but I'm not sure how well they understand the connections. I do see that as long as they remain largely in the closet (outside of CD events) it will be harder for them to lobby for change, but there are still things they can do without giving themselves away that might make a difference.

Just having CD groups that other people occasionally hear about makes a difference, I suppose. There are also differences that come out of "negotiations" in CD households. "You can cross-dress under these conditions if..." It's a start.

I see CDing as something that works for a lot of people without creating problems for me. That's why I support it.