what is the % of trangenders attaining steath and those who don't

[stephaniec]

I think  the variety in the female genetic pool allows passing even if extra work is required, as others have said, what is ' passing '

[TSJasmine]

ive been thinking about this a lot lately and I think the number of mtf who can actually achieve the level of passability needed to be truly and completely stealth is very low.. at least for those who started after puberty and haven't spent thousands on ffs and other surgeries. Its my belief that a lot of people think there stealth when the reality is people just aren't bringing it up cause there being polite...let me make one thing very clear though and that is theres a big difference to passing in the streets or in quick day to day interactions with strangers and passing in all situations one hundred percent... I definitely believe its possible to be stealth and some mtf definitely have achieved it... but if you started hormones older than your teens and you've had no surgeries I just don't think its possible for most...

This is my opinion too. I think there's "out & about" passing & direct "face to face" passing & just overall, passing in any & every situation. I feel like if someone sees me, then they usually just think I'm a normal girl. I think I do "out & about" pass. Face to face is only sometimes. I'm 90% sure the only thing that gives it away is my voice. Also, maybe my body language. I was a flaming homosexual before transition & I do have some pretty gay tendencies like many tgirls do. I'm trying to get rid of them lol

[Susan522]

You know...Until I first "came out" 'on line', I had never even heard of the term "stealth" applied to anything other than a military plane that was "invisible" to radar.  So is that what we are talking about here?  Being "invisible" and/or "flying under the radar"?

Just like the term "passing", it implies a sort of hiding, deception or subterfuge, as in "passing" counterfeit money.   Just what is being 'hidden' under all that makeup and pretty skirts?  A long forgotten medical procedure/history or a "little extra" between the legs?  And....how does it matter?  If it does, how so?

Stealth?  Passing?  Is that what it is all about?  I certainly do not see it that way, but that is fine for me.  For you?  How about what ever works for you

[mrs izzy]

You know...Until I first "came out" 'on line', I had never even heard of the term "stealth" applied to anything other than a military plane that was "invisible" to radar.  So is that what we are talking about here?  Being "invisible" and/or "flying under the radar"?

Just like the term "passing", it implies a sort of hiding, deception or subterfuge, as in "passing" counterfeit money.   Just what is being 'hidden' under all that makeup and pretty skirts?  A long forgotten medical procedure/history or a "little extra" between the legs?  And....how does it matter?  If it does, how so?

Stealth?  Passing?  Is that what it is all about?  I certainly do not see it that way, but that is fine for me.  For you?  How about what ever works for you

I agree with you.

I been at this a very long time and always hear passing and stealth.

How about just plan old living?

Way to much energy and money is spent on these.

You are you. Male or Female and with time on Hrt beauty tips and dressing ones age its easy to go about your day as yourself.

I did it at age 43 full time with 5 years hormones and practice.  Never looked back.

So believe in yourself.

Hugs

[Northern Jane]

"Complete stealth" is very rare and, in my opinion, not worth the cost (socially) or the effort. There is also a time factor - you may be completely stealth (except to your prescribing doctor) but almost certainly that will not last indefinitely - it will come out sooner or later and if it is "a spectacular discovery" word will spread fast! (I know!)

If you are a woman, think of yourself as a woman, and live as a woman, even people who 'know' will forget in time. I have had to remind my doctor why I don't need a PAP smear LOL!

[BunnyBee]

If you mean 100%, where nobody ever has even a moment of doubt about you, then yes, super low number of people on that list.  Many cis women would not be on that list, tbh.

If you mean being able to just live your life like a normal woman, and have no, or close to no, people really suspect anything other than you being cis, then it might be higher than you think.  Most people are less observant and more self-absorbed than you could imagine.

All that matters though is just that you simply find a way to live that makes you comfortable, and everybody can do that!

[shelby513]

I was thinking about this same question a couple of days ago. I was at my local mall getting my cell phone repaired at a kiosk and was people watching as I stood there waiting. During my people watching I noticed an older trans woman mall walking. I noticed that nobody else took any extra notice of her. Aa someone who's never went out in public as myself except to go to therapy due to fear it made me think. Either nobody could tell or nobody cared, and after reflecting I think it's the former. I think people are wired to make assumptions based on what's presented--if you see how a person is presenting your mind tends to automatically gender them accordingly. I don't think most people have "I wonder if this person is trans" running through their minds as they interact with people. So in spite of my personal fears I agree with everybody saying the day to day passing rate is probably much higher, maybe more so than any of us think.

[brian.lang.5492]

Are you in women's clothes when you visit the mall


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cristyjade30]

ive been thinking about this a lot lately and I think the number of mtf who can actually achieve the level of passability needed to be truly and completely stealth is very low.. at least for those who started after puberty and haven't spent thousands on ffs and other surgeries. Its my belief that a lot of people think there stealth when the reality is people just aren't bringing it up cause there being polite...let me make one thing very clear though and that is theres a big difference to passing in the streets or in quick day to day interactions with strangers and passing in all situations one hundred percent... I definitely believe its possible to be stealth and some mtf definitely have achieved it... but if you started hormones older than your teens and you've had no surgeries I just don't think its possible for most...

Not true, depends on facial structure, Sona avedian was a 240 pound marine who transitioned at age 32, and has only had breast implants, not an opinion but she is 100% passable, se chose to put her story out to help others to realize theres always hope for passing. Several videos out there of verifiable passable women who started late, putting this crap out there does not help those of us who have hope to pass not for the sake of passing but to have as normal a life as possible. If ffs is needed depnds on a lot, but I have met some personally that pass (not me being nice either) that shocked me. As always age is NOT the only determining factor for passing and ymmv,
but there are a lot of people who will be discouraged from transition and finding happiness from reading this, and I for one don't think its cool to gate keep on misconceptions.

[ImagineKate]

Yep. It's not a life sentence if you don't start at 14. It just takes work and is possible. Beard shadow and voice are the biggest giveaways. Work on those.

[LilDevilOfPrada]

I think it is around 30% as I have seen women on this site that just blow my mind, but then I also have my own experience where I started HRT at 16 and will never attain stealth without major facial surgeries. At the end of the day its a lot harder to look female as males always developed crazy big features(most of the time). 

This is the double edged blade of mtf and ftm. The guys will generally get into stealth easier but then have the srs issue and the girls have to get more stuff  done to stealth i general. (Yea this is a safe generalization I know that the men can also need more surgeries).

[primrose]

The majority of the general public is quite ignorant and unaware of trans people being "real" human beings walking amongst them. The perception most people have is the freak type man-in-a-dress or an over-exaggearted hookerish "->-bleeped-<-". Stealth is achievable due to most people being ignorant and unable to detect a "trans person". Lets face it 99.9% of us are bricky to a certain extent and only those who have not undergone male puberty would be very passable. Of course if you're over 6 foot tall, walk like a man and talk like a man with a 5 o'clock shadow ...well you're pretty much a man in a dress in the eyes of most people which is fine if you're goal is not to pass.

[MiaOhMya!]

Sorry I feel an obligation to post again. I don't want people to think looks will solve their problems.

Hear me out:

I transitioned in my late 20's and I am fortunate to look really good. Today the honest truth is the only one who ever wonders about passing is ME. People tell me I'm flawless. I once tried to tell and then convince someone I was trans and they just got confused. That's great right? Everyone's goal right?  BUT the fight is still on in my head. How can that be?

Do not fool yourself into thinking that something shallow like appearance will resolve those deep problems. It helps a lot in some ways, but its not a magic pill. It is not the key to happiness, take it from someone who has been there.

[stephaniec]

Sorry I feel an obligation to post again. I don't want people to think looks will solve their problems.

Hear me out:

I transitioned in my late 20's and I am fortunate to look really good. Today the honest truth is the only one who ever wonders about passing is ME. People tell me I'm flawless. I once tried to tell and then convince someone I was trans and they just got confused. That's great right? Everyone's goal right?  BUT the fight is still on in my head. How can that be?

Do not fool yourself into thinking that something shallow like appearance will resolve those deep problems. It helps a lot in some ways, but its not a magic pill. It is not the key to happiness, take it from someone who has been there.

totally agree, It's difficult to tell your brain that you never presented as the opposite gender

[Missy~rmdlm]

Only around 10% of trans people transition and have surgery, the stealth number is lower than that. Account for any number of individuals my endocrinologist states he's prescribed to and worked with that don't fit any standard.

[stephaniec]

Only around 10% of trans people transition and have surgery, the stealth number is lower than that. Account for any number of individuals my endocrinologist states he's prescribed to and worked with that don't fit any standard.

looks like the 10-20% is ahead in the poll  so could be  right

[Heather]

Stealth is just an illusion these days. I prefer the don't ask don't tell approach. Because if you don't ask I sure won't tell.    

[Susan522]

totally agree, It's difficult to tell your brain that you never presented as the opposite gender

. 

I am not so sure.  Maybe if you stop trying to tell your brain, (is this talking to yourself?)...that you never did this or that......you might just forget what it was that you never did. Huh?     I sure did.

[Auroramarianna]

I think it depends on how we define "stealth". If it's nobody knowing, having no clue, you are transsexual, even your group friends and your partner, then I think that's a very very tiny small percentage of trans women. Of course, this level of stealth would involve cutting off everyone who knew from the time before you transitioned and moving way, and I think nowadays, it's virtually impossible due to social networks, everything's connected, so it's very difficult.

But I think if we define "stealth" as interacting with people who don't know about you or even people who knew and you are gendered female, the it's larger pool of people. I think eventually most people can pass, given enough time on HRT, makeup skills, voice work and getting rid of facial hair. Like about 70-80% of women will eventually reach this level if they work it. For some, FFS and other procedures are needed. This is where money counts and it can be really unfair but unfortunately, the more money, the faster you can go stealth.

[tuuliu]

Interesting question, but like many others I'm confused what you mean with stealth stephaniec? Or is it left up to voters?

I see two main interpretations, one of them being nobody knows your trans background and the other that people gender you correctly after your transitioning process (as in having no idea you're trans unless they know your background). To me the latter is waay more interesting. It gives a better idea of how well you're able to work on your gender presentation. The "nobody knows" interpretation is about (to me) secondary issues such as moving to another location, paperwork, keeping your status to yourself before the transition etc. Basically what Aurora said right before.

I was surprised by the quite negative numbers but I guess it's because many have interpreted the question according to the nobody knows alternative. I voted 50-60% myself and I thought I was being a downer. Then again I'm lucky to have a large group of accepting friends, both trans and cis so the secondary issues don't matter as much to me.

Oh and guys who do you base your votes on? I can only guess the numbers myself based on posts here and on ->-bleeped-<-'s transtimelines. Plus a few local friends.