Still getting, er, aroused after almost two years...

[Steph34]

I am very ashamed of this, but I still have spontaneous partial erections (and sometimes even involuntary releases) while alone at night, even after almost 3 months of HRT and 4 months of T blocker. I am either asleep or half-asleep, and then suddenly it happens, usually with no emotion at all. This is holding back feminization and making my hair fall out. Does anyone have any suggestions for preventing it? I just want it to be gone already.

Arousal happens in my head, not in my body. The manifestation of it, on the other hand, does change...

I agree; I still get mentally aroused around people, but it is no longer sexual in nature. Now it is a positive feeling about not being alone. I like it this way, much better.

Since starting HRT, I tend to say way too much.

[kelly_aus]

This is holding back feminization and making my hair fall out.

Umm, what? Got some science to go with this claim? Because I've certainly never seen anything that would support it.

[Clhoe G]

I can say from experience cyproterone will stop unwanted erections n that's why I stopped it,  i have also have used domperidone then stopped using it because it killed my desire to have any sex what so ever (but I could still get erect) domperidone also increases prolactin for lactation, as you know, which is why I used it  lol, but anyway prolactin increases after orgasm so dopamine levels go down after sex (dopamine rises during arousal) but using prolactin to decrease erections probably won't do much other then stop you from wanting any sex what so ever.

In short I would recommend trying cyproterone and depo provera if you really want to get rid of erections but this combination may prevent you from getting any fertility back tho you most more than likely still have anal arousal, which I'm guessing you want to keep, but if not dutasteride may reduce that in some people, I only use finasteride on a low dose because personally I love it.

Don't forget to speak to a doctor about any advice given before you do anything with medications

[Clhoe G]

O n one more thing if you do use domperidone n start lactating be shore to milk by pump 6times a day for half an hour to decrease risk of cancer, but this will also increase breast milk supply, but I really don't think it would be something you would want.

[Steph34]

Umm, what? Got some science to go with this claim? Because I've certainly never seen anything that would support it.

Masturbation (but not arousal) increases T and DHT levels. Nocturnal stomach contact is presumably no different than rubbing, since it is the release (and not the anticipation) that raises T and DHT. It is meaningless that E also goes up, since the endogenous E is 'swamped' by T and in any case trivial compared to what I would be getting from HRT.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/archive/index.php/t-34144.html

Since T and DHT prevent feminization and DHT causes hair loss, this is consistent with my personal observation that such nocturnal incidents have those effects on me. Even with blockers, my androgens are not totally gone.

[KayXo]

Yes, actually, they are at a higher risk for blood clots!  Where are you getting your facts?  Over a prolonged period of time, it gets risky.

Getting my facts from science and from what we observe in the real world. I've also personally known several transwomen over the age of 40 who've thrived on high levels for decades without complications. Just think of those women who get pregnant several times during their lives and/or who breastfeed for years...Breast cancer is highest in older women whose estrogen, progesterone and prolactin levels are all LOW. Food for thought...

In short I would recommend trying cyproterone and depo provera

Depo-Provera is associated with several side-effects, notably the onset of depression in some so that it's best to at least start with pills to see how one reacts than to risk being stuck with it for longer periods of time in one's body. As always, consult an experienced doctor and see what they say. Cyproterone is also associated with depression in some.

I'm post-op, have very little T and do get arousal to the point where I even feel erect down there due to all the blood going to that region and causing, even sometimes pain! I like to feel "erect" (and aroused) despite the pain. But, I understand that it may be annoying due to still having male genitalia although personally, it never really mattered much to me. 

Masturbation (but not arousal) increases T and DHT levels.

I VERY much doubt this or at least in a significant way. I masturbated quite often pre-op, never experienced problems.

[androgynouspainter26]

I don't know anything about the cancer risks, but high prolactin is well documented to be associated with blood clots.  Just because it's more likely to happen doesn't mean it WILL happen, but it's still not something you want accumulating in your system for an extended period of time.  I'm not going to argue over this, I've seen more than enough medical literature to understand the facts here, and I urge you to get yours straight.  I don't want someone to see what you're saying and think that they shouldn't worry about those levels, because it is very unhealthy.

[KayXo]

I don't know anything about the cancer risks, but high prolactin is well documented to be associated with blood clots.  Just because it's more likely to happen doesn't mean it WILL happen, but it's still not something you want accumulating in your system for an extended period of time. 

But then, why do women who breastfeed for several years whose prolactin levels are very high not suffer more from blood clots? I just want an explanation, that's all. I'm open to what your saying but it must fit with what we observe.

[kelly_aus]

Masturbation (but not arousal) increases T and DHT levels. Nocturnal stomach contact is presumably no different than rubbing, since it is the release (and not the anticipation) that raises T and DHT. It is meaningless that E also goes up, since the endogenous E is 'swamped' by T and in any case trivial compared to what I would be getting from HRT.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/archive/index.php/t-34144.html

Since T and DHT prevent feminization and DHT causes hair loss, this is consistent with my personal observation that such nocturnal incidents have those effects on me. Even with blockers, my androgens are not totally gone.

Most of the links on that page disagree with you. However, one of them makes an interesting point - abstinence caused T levels to increase by as much as 14% after 7 days. Another also pointed out that prolactin appears to play a part in hair loss..

[androgynouspainter26]

Wow, thanks for the great replies from all of you.  Fiugred I'd put out a Part II question for all of you-Mood stuff!!!

How do you deal?  I think my E levels are getting a bit higher just because of how my diet is changing, and also because I got more consistent about taking everything.  I'm also finding myself overly emotional though...either very depressed, or...well, not manic, but fairly happy.  I never used to have issues with self esteem and depression and everything before I started E, although my anxiety was fairly bad and has since receded.  So...I'm fairly sure hormones are adversely effecting my mental health.  Obviously lowering the dosage or stopping is NOT something I want to do.  Thoughts?

[skin]

I don't have any suggestions, but I can sympathize.  At first I was feeling stronger emotions and loving it.  Now they're too strong.  After not crying at all as an adult, I feel like I've had a constantly leaking set of eyes all of this week.  It has legitimately been a pretty terrible week, but I still feel like I am not dealing with it as well as I could have even just a month ago.  The depression I can sort of deal with, but right now I'm dealing with levels of anxiety I never experienced pre-hrt.  I'm just sort of trying to ride it out and hope it gets better soon.  So if you learn how to deal with it before I do, be sure to share the secret 

[Clhoe G]

Wow, thanks for the great replies from all of you.  Fiugred I'd put out a Part II question for all of you-Mood stuff!!!

How do you deal?  I think my E levels are getting a bit higher just because of how my diet is changing, and also because I got more consistent about taking everything.  I'm also finding myself overly emotional though...either very depressed, or...well, not manic, but fairly happy.  I never used to have issues with self esteem and depression and everything before I started E, although my anxiety was fairly bad and has since receded.  So...I'm fairly sure hormones are adversely effecting my mental health.  Obviously lowering the dosage or stopping is NOT something I want to do.  Thoughts?

There are a few reasons that could n can happen some medications in some people can cause depression, you could raise this issue with you doctor n ask for a different type, I do know that premarin (conjugated estrogen) can cause depression in some people.

Andropause (male equivalent of menopause) can also cause it even during onset.

Estrogen will make your emotions stronger on pretty much every level, so you could try doing something that has always made you happiest.

Can I also say that if you feel your erectile function is causing this, I don't think that medroxyprogesterone n cyproterone will cause you to get worse because I noticed that cyproterone made me very depressed, as I was no longer functional on it and that also gave me a sexual frustration, basically the reverse of your case.

  And kayxo is right there is a very small, like tiny amount of testosterone produced when masterbaiting.

On prolactin most women whom have had children breastfeed so prolactin is no only used it prevents prolactin over build up, so blood clotting n cancer is not really a problem, infact it has been suggested that breastfeeding will even lower the risk of getting cancer those that choose not to breast feed sometimes use a  dopamine agonist to dry up milk supply.

Prolactin decreases dopamine so it can cause depression and it can quite possibly contribute to women's Postnatal Depression

Dopamine may reduce depression but it will also increase sexual desire, because dopamine increase during arousal n orgasm, but prolactin will kill all sexual desire.

So weighing up the risks n benefits with the information on this tread, prolactin n dopamine are out, cyproterone n medroxyprogesterone are likely to help much more, they will most more then likely stop unwanted erections but still keep sexual desire in the way you want it.

Wow I think I'm running out of information on this one

[Steph34]

I'm also finding myself overly emotional though...either very depressed, or...well, not manic, but fairly happy.  I never used to have issues with self esteem and depression and everything before I started E, although my anxiety was fairly bad and has since receded.  So...I'm fairly sure hormones are adversely effecting my mental health.  Obviously lowering the dosage or stopping is NOT something I want to do.  Thoughts?

E does make emotions stronger; that is one of its benefits in my mind. I like having stronger feelings and being able to express them, even if they are sometimes negative. However, emotional problems can often be caused by unstable or fluctuating E levels. If that is the case, it could help to find out the effective duration or half-life of the form of E you are using, and make sure your doses are spaced closely enough to prevent crashes. Given the effects of hormones on mood, maintaining a steady level could significantly lessen these swings. If I am even two hours early or late for my E, there are significant changes to my mood.

Most of the links on that page disagree with you. However, one of them makes an interesting point - abstinence caused T levels to increase by as much as 14% after 7 days. Another also pointed out that prolactin appears to play a part in hair loss..

The very first link reported increased T and DHT from release, which helps explain why I would lose so much hair and masculinize shortly afterwards.

Prolactin levels are higher in women than men, and prolactin levels are incredibly high during pregnancy. Interestingly, pre-menopausal women almost never have severe hair loss, and most women enjoy a decrease in hair detachment during pregnancy. Estradiol also raises prolactin, and women tend to lose hair during menopause when E levels (and thus prolactin) decline. In fact, I lose more hair when my E level (and thus prolactin) are lower. It therefore stands to reason that prolactin is good for hair maintenance, not bad. Manly men and their sympathizers are always trying to cast doubt on the consensus that DHT causes hair loss, but to implicate prolactin is fraudulent. There are only two references to prolactin on that page. The claim that prolactin can worsen hair loss by raising free T levels is meaningless, because it is DHT and not free T that causes hair loss; furthermore, they fail to provide any scientific evidence that prolactin actually does raise free T. Since prolactin is elevated during feminizing processes, it is silly to worry about it raising free T, a claim that lacks scientific backing anyway. The one study on prolactin presented there, regarding rats' prostate glands, is irrelevant. Even the few people who do honestly believe that prolactin causes hair loss should abstain, because masturbation raises prolactin levels, too.

I am always careful to read science in its proper context. The spike after 7 days of abstinence is not necessarily caused by the abstinence. On the contrary, it could be the masturbation 7 days beforehand (rather than the abstinence thereafter) that causes the spike. The study merely points to the existence of the spike, not whether it was caused by the abstinence or the prior physical acts. Given my experiences, I would assume it is the latter.

[kelly_aus]

You know what, Steph? Believe what you like. There's so much quasi-science and anecdotal rubbish floating around the trans community about hormones and what they can and can't do that I'm not going to bother arguing this.

[KayXo]

And kayxo is right there is a very small, like tiny amount of testosterone produced when masterbaiting.

I don't think I ever made that statement (?). LOL.

Prolactin decreases dopamine so it can cause depression and it can quite possibly contribute to women's Postnatal Depression

My understanding was that it was the other way around, that dopamine inhibited prolactin production so that if dopamine is reduced, prolactin is now allowed to be produced and is increased as what happens with cyproterone acetate. Also, post-natal depression could be due to several factors but studies have shown that it is often the drop in estrogen (and progesterone) that cause this and administration of either can significantly improve symptoms, more than anti-depressants, interestingly enough!

Prolactin levels are higher in women than men, and prolactin levels are incredibly high during pregnancy. Interestingly, pre-menopausal women almost never have severe hair loss, and most women enjoy a decrease in hair detachment during pregnancy. Estradiol also raises prolactin, and women tend to lose hair during menopause when E levels (and thus prolactin) decline. In fact, I lose more hair when my E level (and thus prolactin) are lower. It therefore stands to reason that prolactin is good for hair maintenance, not bad.

If both an increase in E and prolactin are associated with an improved scalp hair situation, then we really can't say which of the two has really helped or if it was a little of both. We need to isolate variables before saying for sure prolactin is good for hair but yes, if it was bad, then it stands that this would negate E's apparently favorable effects on hair which is not the case so perhaps prolactin is neutral. I've personally noticed a significant improvement in my hair since on E injectable. Thicker, shinier, softer.

[Steph34]

If both an increase in E and prolactin are associated with an improved scalp hair situation, then we really can't say which of the two has really helped or if it was a little of both. We need to isolate variables before saying for sure prolactin is good for hair but yes, if it was bad, then it stands that this would negate E's apparently favorable effects on hair which is not the case so perhaps prolactin is neutral. I've personally noticed a significant improvement in my hair since on E injectable. Thicker, shinier, softer.

I really need a higher dose of E before I go bald. No hair, no future. Even at just a low level of E, my thickness and softness improved. If I go off my E for even a few hours, my hair falls out all over. If I take it a few hours early, so that doses overlap and my level rises, I lose less hair. If my doctor is unwilling to prescribe a sufficient level of E for me to have healthy hair, then I may need a new doctor, as there is nothing I would not give for hair. If ending my transition would save my hair, I would end it tomorrow, but of course that is not the case. Estradiol is the next best thing I have ever done for my hair, second only to dutasteride.

There are three ways I am aware of E being beneficial to hair:
1) It reduces DHT levels, and DHT causes hair loss and thinning
2) It reduces stress, and stress causes hair loss
3) It reduces scalp oil, and scalp oil is toxic to hair follicles over time

Some men on hair loss boards have tried to implicate E in hair loss, based on correlations. When T production rises in men, all other steroid levels (including E and DHT) tend to go up, too. The protective effect of E is simply weaker than the damaging effect of DHT, especially at the low levels of E present in men. As such, men may lose more hair when they have higher levels of estrogens, and given their nature, they prefer to blame the estrogens. Such arguments are not only unscientific, but defy common sense. The case against prolactin is no different.

If E raises prolactin, and E is good for hair, then higher prolactin levels will be correlated with better hair whether or not prolactin itself improves hair.

I VERY much doubt this or at least in a significant way. I masturbated quite often pre-op, never experienced problems.

You also seem to have had higher E levels, so perhaps your E was more effective at suppression. Whenever I masturbated, I would notice head enlargement, redistribution of hip weight to the shoulders, increased hair loss, increased agitation, and increased urinary frequency/urgency - all androgenic problems. Interestingly, those problems were reversible if I abstained for 8 days or more, but the hair would not regrow. Given all of those ailments, I found it easy to quit once my T level came down.

Estrogen will make your emotions stronger on pretty much every level

Faster as well as deeper, like it no longer takes a while to realize my feelings.

there is a very small, like tiny amount of testosterone produced when masterbaiting.

In people whose hair follicles are hypersensitive to DHT, the cause of my hair loss, even a small amount of additional T (and thus DHT) can be devastating for hair over time.

[Carrie Liz]

OP, it still happens to me too. Not just partial erections, but full ones. And I've been on HRT for 23 months, and I've had T levels that are even lower than the normal range for cis women since my freaking 2-month blood test. (Mine are consistently 22-28, base female range is 25-95.) And trust me, I WISH I didn't have those stupid erections. Every single time it happens, not only does it make me extremely dysphoric, it hurts like hell because HRT has rendered that area so damned sensitive.

Spontaneous erections have more or less gone away, and the constant inundation of sexual thoughts that come with them, but in terms of constantly dealing with them every single time a sexual thought actually does enter my head, and every time I think about getting "intimate" with someone, I feel your pain. And yeah, I'm VERY jealous every time I hear another trans woman say that she can't get them at all anymore. I wish. I hate those damned things so much.

[Lady_Oracle]

OP, it still happens to me too. Not just partial erections, but full ones. And I've been on HRT for 23 months, and I've had T levels that are even lower than the normal range for cis women since my freaking 2-month blood test. (Mine are consistently 22-28, base female range is 25-95.) And trust me, I WISH I didn't have those stupid erections. Every single time it happens, not only does it make me extremely dysphoric, it hurts like hell because HRT has rendered that area so damned sensitive.

Spontaneous erections have more or less gone away, and the constant inundation of sexual thoughts that come with them, but in terms of constantly dealing with them every single time a sexual thought actually does enter my head, and every time I think about getting "intimate" with someone, I feel your pain. And yeah, I'm VERY jealous every time I hear another trans woman say that she can't get them at all anymore. I wish. I hate those damned things so much.

Same here, I've been on hrt for about 33 months now, thankfully the spontaneous erections don't happen anymore. I only get it if I'm sexually aroused and that kicks my dysphoria back up so I'm in the same boat as some of you. Its frustrating especially now that I'm in a relationship, makes me not want to be intimate with my partner at all. The pain can be really bad sometimes too...