Looking for endo to legally confirm infertility

[Apple]

Hi,
does anybody know an endocrinologist or other doctor who is convinced that after a year on full strength MtF HRT, a person is permanently infertile? I know that opinions on this matter are varied. However... if I could get a letter from a doctor saying that I'm permanently sterile, I would most probably fulfill the legal requirements in my country ("definitive end of reproductive function") for gender marker change!

[KayXo]

Why not just test things out?

[Apple]

From legal standpoint, what matters is not current infertility but rather permament infertility (sterility). How would you test that? I'm not willing to go off hrt for 6 months to prove that
Anyway, the law is pointless and stupid, but that's the way it is. Though I'm trying to contribute to change it.

[HughE]

Hi,
does anybody know an endocrinologist or other doctor who is convinced that after a year on full strength MtF HRT, a person is permanently infertile? I know that opinions on this matter are varied. However... if I could get a letter from a doctor saying that I'm permanently sterile, I would most probably fulfill the legal requirements in my country ("definitive end of reproductive function") for gender marker change!

I know that Sweden and the Netherlands used to have a requirement that trans folks had to be rendered incapable of reproduction, but I'd heard that those two countries recently lifted their requirement for sterilization. It's awful if there are still countries practicing eugenics on trans folks (especially since, if truth were known, most of us are probably the way we are because of being exposed in the womb to medically prescribed hormones).

Anyway, a year's HRT won't necessarily have made you permanently infertile, so you'd probably struggle to find a doctor who'll sign you off on that one. The only thing that will cause a "definitive end of reproductive function" is an orchiectomy, or GRS.

[Clhoe G]

Hi,
does anybody know an endocrinologist or other doctor who is convinced that after a year on full strength MtF HRT, a person is permanently infertile? I know that opinions on this matter are varied. However... if I could get a letter from a doctor saying that I'm permanently sterile, I would most probably fulfill the legal requirements in my country ("definitive end of reproductive function") for gender marker change!

I can't believe these requirements still exist, it makes me wanna go protest.
What country do you live in?
well at least srs isn't the requirement, like it is here in Australia, I have to be a eunuch n then some, before they'll change my gender marker, it's totally barbaric, like it's eugenics exactly what the nazis practiced, but not a lot of people know eugenics was practiced throughout Europe, America, uk and Australia, well before nazi Germany.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

It's still around...  Trust me. 

[Apple]

HughE: yes, I know that the most common opinion regarding mtf hrt and infertility is that you cannot guarantee that it is permanent... but I was just hoping that at least one doctor could be convinced of the opposite... and looking for him/her.

Chloe G (or Clhoe G? sorry): the motivation for the sterility requirement is not one of eugenics, but of bureaucracy. "We just can't let someone marked 'M' let have a baby! That would make a total mess in our paperwork! So, let's simply sterilize them and our paperwork problem is solved. They'll be sterile anyway because of their sex change operation." (They forgot about ovum/sperm banking...).
I live in Czech Republic, a neighbour of Germany. In 2014, the requirements became even stricter. Now, a so called "transformation of sex organs" is required beside sterilization. Basically, it puts non-phalloplasty FtMs out of the game. But it was not intentional. It happened out of pure ignorance; my father talked to the author of that part of the law and it turned it that the author was quite proud of his work in capturing the "current state", without an intention to make changes. However, he was having the idea that "every transsexual wants a sex change" and "sex change makes F genitals look like M and M like F, right?". Pure ignorance, no evil... But with evil consequences.
I'm writing to lawmaker on this matter, but the chance for change is slim, nobody cares.

[Clhoe G]

HughE: yes, I know that the most common opinion regarding mtf hrt and infertility is that you cannot guarantee that it is permanent... but I was just hoping that at least one doctor could be convinced of the opposite... and looking for him/her.

Chloe G (or Clhoe G? sorry): the motivation for the sterility requirement is not one of eugenics, but of bureaucracy. "We just can't let someone marked 'M' let have a baby! That would make a total mess in our paperwork! So, let's simply sterilize them and our paperwork problem is solved. They'll be sterile anyway because of their sex change operation." (They forgot about ovum/sperm banking...).
I live in Czech Republic, a neighbour of Germany. In 2014, the requirements became even stricter. Now, a so called "transformation of sex organs" is required beside sterilization. Basically, it puts non-phalloplasty FtMs out of the game. But it was not intentional. It happened out of pure ignorance; my father talked to the author of that part of the law and it turned it that the author was quite proud of his work in capturing the "current state", without an intention to make changes. However, he was having the idea that "every transsexual wants a sex change" and "sex change makes F genitals look like M and M like F, right?". Pure ignorance, no evil... But with evil consequences.
I'm writing to lawmaker on this matter, but the chance for change is slim, nobody cares.

I'm sorry but it has everything to do with eugenics, n there are lots of people who care about it, trans family, friends n others.

You should read more about it

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization


http://theconversation.com/eugenics-and-the-practice-of-transgendering-children-3838

[Apple]

Clhoe G, Regarding your first link, yes, I am aware of sterilizations continuing up to this day, but I'm still convinced that in case of trans people today, it is more ignorance than intention.

Regarding the second link, I'm not quite sure if you read that article fully. The article actually claims that trans children are not trans at all, they just don't conform to gender stereotypes, and giving them puberty blockers and eventually "amputating their genitals" is an atrocity the MAKES them "transgendered"! It is a paranoid fantasy; the journalist sees the treatment of trans people as a way of strengthening gender stereotypes. The journalist argues that puberty blockers should not be offered to trans children (see the misgendering of children in the cases described?), because it is a sterilization in the name of gender stereotypes!

[Clhoe G]

Clhoe G, Regarding your first link, yes, I am aware of sterilizations continuing up to this day, but I'm still convinced that in case of trans people today, it is more ignorance than intention.

Regarding the second link, I'm not quite sure if you read that article fully. The article actually claims that trans children are not trans at all, they just don't conform to gender stereotypes, and giving them puberty blockers and eventually "amputating their genitals" is an atrocity the MAKES them "transgendered"! It is a paranoid fantasy; the journalist sees the treatment of trans people as a way of strengthening gender stereotypes. The journalist argues that puberty blockers should not be offered to trans children (see the misgendering of children in the cases described?), because it is a sterilization in the name of gender stereotypes!

your missing the hole point of my argument, Eugenics play a massive role in transgender political policys, why do you think they won't give a gender marker without srs or permanent sterilization, why because eugenics is all about preventing minoritys n those they deem undesirable from having children, as a form of population control, that's what eugenics is all about.
And the article doesn't point out that trans children are not trans, it just points out how early the eugenics ideals are in effect on children, the article acknowledges gender dysphoria, tho it dose point out that a lot of people that come out as trans are attracted to the gender that is their born gender, so the article uses the words gay n lesbian.
the article also questions the ethics of trans children not ever being able to ever have the chance to have children themselves, because their puberty gets block, so the article is basically saying this is eugenics at work.